[UCGal]

Scrapbooking retreat.
I have friends who put on these scrapping workshop weekends. This looks like the places they rent.

[UCGal]

[quote=CA renter]Congratulations on the squat, scaredy, though I really hope your family loses (quickly) on the Piggington bet. You bring a lot of funny and wonderful insights to this blog.

Good luck on Sunday![/quote]
+1

I’m hoping you win the squat bet… but I enjoy your posts – so don’t want to see the piggington bet move forward.

[UCGal]

I agree with you to a degree about the for profit universities.

But even public, brick and mortor schools are offering more and more online – My grad school – Penn State, now has 100% online programs.

The issue I have with schools like UoP is that the profit motive seems to outweigh what is good for the student sometimes. They incentivize the admissions staff to line up loans for prospective students… so the staff has no incentive to suggest that a loan might not be in the students best interest… it’s about sales.

That said – there can be decent quality education from these for-profit online schools.

I have a family member who teaches nursing for University of Phoenix. She retired from USD’s nursing program and she enjoys teaching still. They have a decent graduate nursing program. It’s not 100% online, either.

I have another family member who got his business doctorate from UoP. (already had undergrad from UC, and an MBA from back east) He was a road warrier at the time – so online worked for him when he was spending weeks at a time at international job sites. A traditional PhD program would have been impossible with his work demands… but online worked perfectly for him – he had plenty of time in hotels to excel at the course work, work on his dissertation, etc.
Now he teaches for another online, for profit, university.

They are trying to convince me to consider teaching for one of these programs as a part time gig in semi-retirement. I’m considering it – but still have to get past the profit over student’s interest piece that bugs me.

[UCGal]

zzz –
interesting article.
But it’s still possible to save/build equity when single.

I didn’t get married and have kids till my late 30’s. I was already in my second “owned” home at the time. I was able to get some savings on the mortgage burden by having housemates.

Kids are definitely a cost adder. Not so much feeding clothing them, but the costs of college savings, medical coverage, etc. It adds up.

[UCGal]

I’d try Hatfield’s suggestion second.
First I’d post a picture with the title “Free fill dirt”.

The moving of dirt to/from job sites is an entire economy sub sector.

When we were trying to get rid of dirt we found a job site near us – talked to their foreman… It was cheaper for their job to take our fill – exactly where they wanted it (if we hauled) than to move it from excess at a farther part of their job site.

We also got rid of a bunch for some people who needed to fill in a spot to put in a jacuzzi. We helped them shovel it into their pickup.

Both of those cases involved shovels on our part – but not $$$

We didn’t get rid of enough (we had several cubic yards of excess fill) – so we paid to have it hauled off using Hatfields method.

[UCGal]

AN – I understand where you are coming from, now. Thanks for sharing.

I am hoping to match what my parents gave me (debt free public education, small, not life changing, inheritance.). Given the change in the economy – it’s harder I’ve been saving for the college funds since the kids were born… and do not count it in my net worth. (Heck, I don’t count my primary home’s equity since I don’t plan to move,sell, or borrow against…. ever. So in my mind it’s kind of like a car… an expense that provides shelter.)

[UCGal]

We ran into the same thing with Vanguard. (slightly different reasons – but they needed a signature guarantee)

At the time we still had an account with Chase (formerly WAMU) – and they were able to do it.

Credit union couldn’t do it.

It’s a reason to keep a bank account open (vs just credit union.)

[UCGal]

[quote=AN][quote=cvmom]AN, where did you get your goal number of $5M savings for retirement? I am assuming that is for 2 people? Just comparing “numbers” (ER, I also liked that book).[/quote]
I when I retire, most of my money will be in a very safe investment (CDs laddering) and I’m only expecting to get ~3%. So, 3% from $5M will give me an income of $150k/year. That will be enough to cover all of my expenses, including medical insurance indefinitely. I want to leave the $5M to my heirs. My definition of financial independence is when my money will work for me instead of me working for my money. I also will be traveling a lot more than I do today, so, although I won’t have mortgage to deal with, my traveling and eating out cost will sky rocket. So, I want to make sure I have enough for that. Also keep in mind that I want to retire by the time I’m 55, so there will be many years where I won’t qualify for medicare and social security (although I’m not counting on either one of those to be there for me when I retire).[/quote]

AN – will you adopt me? $5M is a lot to leave your kids.

My kids will get a paid for college education… and our paid for house. We are *NOT* budgeting in an inheritance. But we also aren’t going to be a burden to them. They will need careers, same as we did.

We’re planning on using our nest egg to live. If the economy tanks for longer/deeper than historically has happened, then they might not get our house – since that’s our plan B. (Sell the house and live off the proceeds.) If we die younger than age 100 – they may get some inheritance…

Hopefully a 3% withdrawal rate should last me 40-50 years. Compounding and all that.

I’m also not of the mindset that you go 100% cash/CDs… not with longevity the way it is. You need to come up with an asset allocation that includes equities/bonds/cash/real estate/precious metals/whatever… pick your percentages based on your risk tolerance. but putting 100% in one asset allocation (cash) is a sure way to see a serious decline in your nest egg.

[UCGal]

[quote=flu]
Well, part of this is think is the prevailing attitude of learned helplessness.

Don’t do that, because it’s too risky. Don’t do that, because it’s going to be outsourced. Don’t do that, because Banks/Wall Street is bad… Don’t be doctor or lawyer because it costs too much. Don’t start your own business because it’s too risky and most likely will fail… Don’t invest, don’t take risk, don’t play stocks. Don’t be landlord…..

….But, maintain your qualify of life that you should have in America…because that’s your right and you deserve it, and we don’t want you to feel bad …

Is there any surprise why we see so much failure why people take the easy way out on credit? Hell, people automatically failed because they didn’t bother to start. Learned helplessness.

Hell, we start seeing kids get feel-good trophies for just trying these days, even if (sorry to say) they suck……”Winning isn’t everything, it’s how you play the game…” True. Winning isn’t everything… Sometimes it’s the only thing.

Unless one’s got some serious physical, health, mental issue(s), one’s got very little excuse in my book.So sick of this victim mentality herd sometimes…[/quote]
You know it’s interesting. I wonder if there’s a correlation between the helicopter parents who insist that little Johnny and Suzie be rewarded for effort, not result, who are the same parents who are all about appearances and achieve the facade of wealth through leverage.

I’m just thinking of some of the parents at my kids previous school. And some of the parents I see at sports activities.

People who operate with a sense of entitlement – buying things they can’t afford, etc… might be training their kids to be entitled… entitled to trophies, entitled to grades… no work required… It is a value they’re passing on, generationally.

[UCGal]

When we finally remodeled our kitchen this year we replaced our cooktop with a free standing gas range/oven. This gave us our second oven. We did not remove our electric wall oven.
It’s the best combo – for us… we cook a lot, we bake a lot. Electric is better for baking, gas is better for roasts.

We use both ovens at the same time several times a month.

We also created a “cubby” for the microwave, above the wall oven. (Lowered the wall oven about 6 inches so both were at a comfortable height). This allowed us to move our large convection/micro oven off the counter. Since it’s not built in – just placed in the open cubby, it is not a problem if we need to replace it.

I guess in theory we have 3 ovens – since the micro has convection… but we don’t use it in that mode. (It was inherited.)

[UCGal]

I’ve been reading this thread with interest. I think part of the differences expressed are because of different ages and stages of life.

I’m hoping to be mortgage free this time next year.
That’s concurrant with my husband retiring.
And I’m hoping, if the market doesn’t tank, to join him in retirement pretty quickly.

As AN said – it’s about cash flow – and our retirement budget works very nicely withOUT a mortgage payment. We need a much larger nest egg if we continue our mortgage. His birthday present next year is the lump sum payoff… But it will be less than $50k at that point.

Trust me – I’ve run every budget scenario past every retirement calculator I can find… It helps that the balance is low following years of dilligent extra principal payments.

We’ve managed to save, including paying down the mortgage, by spending far less than we earned. And this is through unemployment and underemployment during the recession. (Hubby’s an architect and was out of a job for 8 months when the economy imploded.) I think that’s the most effective way to achieve financial independance… spend less, invest more.

For us – paying off our mortgage was not an either/or to investing in other areas. We still maxed our 401ks, funded 529’s, and saved in taxable accounts. AND made extra principal payments. But we don’t eat out a lot, we do our own labor (housework, lawn work, etc.) We borrow books from the library rather than buying them… It’s amazing how much you can save that way.

[UCGal]

We did a few things to encourage goals.
– college expenses are paid directly.
– small bonus on graduation of college… $10k
– paying out in thirds… 1/3 at age 25, then at 30 and 35.

We were worried about a lump sum before they’re mature enough to handle it. Something we’ve seen enough real world examples of.

Our goal is to live long enough that none of this is an issue…. we’ll spend it on ourselves in retirement. But if that plan doesn’t work, hopefully we have a good backup plan.

Edited to add that executor and backup executors are family… so only actual expenses charged.. not labor.

[UCGal]

Middle class people DO feel strapped. Always have.
I grew up upper middle class and I remember my dad worrying about money. (He was an engineer). But we lived in a nice neighborhood. We always had used cars, my mom pinched pennies at the grocery store, as the youngest I’m not sure I ever had new clothes – just “new to me” hand me downs. And we were upper middle class. My mom was able to stay at home till I was in middle school.

My husband’s family was more typical middle class. Family of 8 in a row house. Both parents worked from when the youngest was in kindergarten. But didn’t make a lot. (Fortunately, both jobs had pensions because there was no budget for retirement saving). All 6 kids went to college. But only got a little help from the parents. No orthodontia. Dental was emergency only. When money was tight they ate a whole lot of soup and pasta. Meat was for Sunday dinner. They qualified for reduced tuition (almost free) from their diocese. One car for the family – bus was standard for all the kids and the mom. Dad would pick mom up when she worked nights.

They were right at the median household income for their city.

The fact that people discuss $200k, $400k, etc as being middle class is truly denying that most people get by on a whole lot less.

You may feel deprived with a combined income of $100k – but you’re less deprived than 2/3’s of those around you.

My point is both figurative and literal. I thought I was middle class till I got my first job out of high school and saw how “poor” my coworkers were. They weren’t poor – just typical/middle class, vs upper middle. Changed my perspective from that point on.

[UCGal]

[quote=no_such_reality]
Negative connotations aside of your post, you make our point, you need to down-grade your material lifestyle or make $200K plus to be in the good parts of Cali. And unless someone left you a house, $100K in Cali is lower middle income existence and it just gets worse as you go down from there. And I’m OC/LA where the housing and expense issue is even more pronounced than SD.
[/quote]

I need to take issue with this. 100k is NOT lower middle income. Even in pricey Southern CA.

From http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/06073.html

Median per capita income in San Diego county: $30,955
Median household income in San Diego county:
$63,857

Median per capita income in Orange county: $34,416
Median household income in Orange county:
$75,762

I think many of us lose sight that we are better off than the median. That our incomes actually put is in the top quintile… even in expensive places like Southern CA.

For every engineer, there’s a gardener, a cashier, a starbucks barista etc.

Start being grateful for that $100k or $200k, and accept that you are NOT middle or lower middle class.

Sure $100k doesn’t go as far in southern CA – but a lot of people survive on a lot less. In fact 50% of households survive on less than $63-64k.

Be thankful for what you have.

[UCGal]

As someone who was born here, went to school here, and left here…. Then came back a decade later, I can say that finances were why I left… Specifically job opportunities and cost of housing.

And quality of life and family is why I came back.

Back in 1990 when I left, the defense industry was totally collapsing. That impacted engineering jobs. Qualcomm had like 100 employees – it was a start up. There were more jobs elsewhere.

And back in 1990 – a starter condo in mission valley was starting to hit closer to $150k… And salaries were pretty low – so that was a stretch. I wondered if I’d ever be able to buy.

Taxes were not on my radar. Jobs and home prices were totally the driving factors.

Fast forward more than a decade and I’d built up equity elsewhere. I had sticker shock on house prices when I moved back in 2001 – but not enough to keep me from moving back. Quality of life was a driving factor. Wanting my kids to grow up going to the beach, having year round outdoor activity, being close to my side of the family.

Taxes were not on my radar returning either. Things are a trade off. Taxes are a little higher here – but medical insurance is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper here than Pennsylvania. Childcare is more expensive here, but I can roll more of my PTO per year here. Lots of pros and cons. Taxes were not in the mix.

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