[Shadowfax]

That’s not quite what I was saying–just that, like many, I really wanted to believe that Obama was different and that he would “change” Washington status quo and would try to fix the things that were broken (I say try because there is honestly only so much one politician can do, even the president). I see some value in his efforts, but mostly he seems to be the same ol’ same ol’, party over country, etc. Will the Tea Baggers be that “change” we were seeking with Obama? Hell, no. They are like the American Taliban–take us back to the dark ages both fiscally and societally.

I have no doubt that the Republicans in power after the last presidential election would not have resulting in them doing nothing–we’d be spending more on the war, probably would have given more money to wall street with fewer strings of accountability attached, etc.

I am not sure what the CPA has to do with anything–we had one form or another of that agency for many years.

But we are still dealing with the fallout of a long stretch of republican years (the supreme court and its decision re corporate participation in campaign financing being a HUGE issue) and that is why I am willing to give O some more time–Washington is an intractible place and nothing changes overnight.

Heathcare reform was a wash, IMHO. But the bailout policy under O has given me pause over whether he is really pursuing the country’s goals or whether he is just selling out like the rest of them to the highest bidder.

ok, rant off.

[Shadowfax]

That’s not quite what I was saying–just that, like many, I really wanted to believe that Obama was different and that he would “change” Washington status quo and would try to fix the things that were broken (I say try because there is honestly only so much one politician can do, even the president). I see some value in his efforts, but mostly he seems to be the same ol’ same ol’, party over country, etc. Will the Tea Baggers be that “change” we were seeking with Obama? Hell, no. They are like the American Taliban–take us back to the dark ages both fiscally and societally.

I have no doubt that the Republicans in power after the last presidential election would not have resulting in them doing nothing–we’d be spending more on the war, probably would have given more money to wall street with fewer strings of accountability attached, etc.

I am not sure what the CPA has to do with anything–we had one form or another of that agency for many years.

But we are still dealing with the fallout of a long stretch of republican years (the supreme court and its decision re corporate participation in campaign financing being a HUGE issue) and that is why I am willing to give O some more time–Washington is an intractible place and nothing changes overnight.

Heathcare reform was a wash, IMHO. But the bailout policy under O has given me pause over whether he is really pursuing the country’s goals or whether he is just selling out like the rest of them to the highest bidder.

ok, rant off.

[Shadowfax]

[quote=Rich Toscano]
That said, it is also totally wrong to say that the Reps would have done nothing. Look what they did under Bush — they threw even more money at the financial industry than the Obama administration did. They are all appeasers for the incompetent and corrupt financial industry.
[/quote]

That last sentence is impactful given the source… (I mean that in a good way–Rich displays a keen understanding of his own industry and isn’t afraid to call the bad participants out for what they are–crooks.)

Both sides of the aisle have given a pass to Wall Street and that shit needs to stop.

Coming to terms with the political reality of Obama’s administration has been painful for me–I really did want to drink the Kool Aid–but he’s really not done much in his two years. I am willing to give him a bit more time, but I am disappointed. And, no, Hell would have frozen over before I would have voted for McCain/Palin. Not because of their party affiliations, but because they would have been sooooo destructive for the country.

[Shadowfax]

[quote=Rich Toscano]
That said, it is also totally wrong to say that the Reps would have done nothing. Look what they did under Bush — they threw even more money at the financial industry than the Obama administration did. They are all appeasers for the incompetent and corrupt financial industry.
[/quote]

That last sentence is impactful given the source… (I mean that in a good way–Rich displays a keen understanding of his own industry and isn’t afraid to call the bad participants out for what they are–crooks.)

Both sides of the aisle have given a pass to Wall Street and that shit needs to stop.

Coming to terms with the political reality of Obama’s administration has been painful for me–I really did want to drink the Kool Aid–but he’s really not done much in his two years. I am willing to give him a bit more time, but I am disappointed. And, no, Hell would have frozen over before I would have voted for McCain/Palin. Not because of their party affiliations, but because they would have been sooooo destructive for the country.

[Shadowfax]

[quote=Rich Toscano]
That said, it is also totally wrong to say that the Reps would have done nothing. Look what they did under Bush — they threw even more money at the financial industry than the Obama administration did. They are all appeasers for the incompetent and corrupt financial industry.
[/quote]

That last sentence is impactful given the source… (I mean that in a good way–Rich displays a keen understanding of his own industry and isn’t afraid to call the bad participants out for what they are–crooks.)

Both sides of the aisle have given a pass to Wall Street and that shit needs to stop.

Coming to terms with the political reality of Obama’s administration has been painful for me–I really did want to drink the Kool Aid–but he’s really not done much in his two years. I am willing to give him a bit more time, but I am disappointed. And, no, Hell would have frozen over before I would have voted for McCain/Palin. Not because of their party affiliations, but because they would have been sooooo destructive for the country.

[Shadowfax]

[quote=Rich Toscano]
That said, it is also totally wrong to say that the Reps would have done nothing. Look what they did under Bush — they threw even more money at the financial industry than the Obama administration did. They are all appeasers for the incompetent and corrupt financial industry.
[/quote]

That last sentence is impactful given the source… (I mean that in a good way–Rich displays a keen understanding of his own industry and isn’t afraid to call the bad participants out for what they are–crooks.)

Both sides of the aisle have given a pass to Wall Street and that shit needs to stop.

Coming to terms with the political reality of Obama’s administration has been painful for me–I really did want to drink the Kool Aid–but he’s really not done much in his two years. I am willing to give him a bit more time, but I am disappointed. And, no, Hell would have frozen over before I would have voted for McCain/Palin. Not because of their party affiliations, but because they would have been sooooo destructive for the country.

[Shadowfax]

[quote=Rich Toscano]
That said, it is also totally wrong to say that the Reps would have done nothing. Look what they did under Bush — they threw even more money at the financial industry than the Obama administration did. They are all appeasers for the incompetent and corrupt financial industry.
[/quote]

That last sentence is impactful given the source… (I mean that in a good way–Rich displays a keen understanding of his own industry and isn’t afraid to call the bad participants out for what they are–crooks.)

Both sides of the aisle have given a pass to Wall Street and that shit needs to stop.

Coming to terms with the political reality of Obama’s administration has been painful for me–I really did want to drink the Kool Aid–but he’s really not done much in his two years. I am willing to give him a bit more time, but I am disappointed. And, no, Hell would have frozen over before I would have voted for McCain/Palin. Not because of their party affiliations, but because they would have been sooooo destructive for the country.

[Shadowfax]

I would also recommend a cause over a candidate.
moveon.org and other political groups have resources where you can either locate a cause or candidates that campaign for specific issues.
Others’ suggestions for HH and Sierra Club and Surfrider are also good ones.

That being said, my other recommendation would be to suggest the child help with the campaign of some VERY local candidates–your local school board. Your kid will know immediately where each candidate stands on issues close to their world of experience. The kid will be able to speak to the topics at hand immediately and know whether the candidate has students’ best interests at heart.

Best of luck. I think it’s great that you are encouraging civil participation at this age–there are so many jaded teenagers who don’t get involved. It’s great that you are fostering their participation.

[Shadowfax]

I would also recommend a cause over a candidate.
moveon.org and other political groups have resources where you can either locate a cause or candidates that campaign for specific issues.
Others’ suggestions for HH and Sierra Club and Surfrider are also good ones.

That being said, my other recommendation would be to suggest the child help with the campaign of some VERY local candidates–your local school board. Your kid will know immediately where each candidate stands on issues close to their world of experience. The kid will be able to speak to the topics at hand immediately and know whether the candidate has students’ best interests at heart.

Best of luck. I think it’s great that you are encouraging civil participation at this age–there are so many jaded teenagers who don’t get involved. It’s great that you are fostering their participation.

[Shadowfax]

I would also recommend a cause over a candidate.
moveon.org and other political groups have resources where you can either locate a cause or candidates that campaign for specific issues.
Others’ suggestions for HH and Sierra Club and Surfrider are also good ones.

That being said, my other recommendation would be to suggest the child help with the campaign of some VERY local candidates–your local school board. Your kid will know immediately where each candidate stands on issues close to their world of experience. The kid will be able to speak to the topics at hand immediately and know whether the candidate has students’ best interests at heart.

Best of luck. I think it’s great that you are encouraging civil participation at this age–there are so many jaded teenagers who don’t get involved. It’s great that you are fostering their participation.

[Shadowfax]

I would also recommend a cause over a candidate.
moveon.org and other political groups have resources where you can either locate a cause or candidates that campaign for specific issues.
Others’ suggestions for HH and Sierra Club and Surfrider are also good ones.

That being said, my other recommendation would be to suggest the child help with the campaign of some VERY local candidates–your local school board. Your kid will know immediately where each candidate stands on issues close to their world of experience. The kid will be able to speak to the topics at hand immediately and know whether the candidate has students’ best interests at heart.

Best of luck. I think it’s great that you are encouraging civil participation at this age–there are so many jaded teenagers who don’t get involved. It’s great that you are fostering their participation.

[Shadowfax]

I would also recommend a cause over a candidate.
moveon.org and other political groups have resources where you can either locate a cause or candidates that campaign for specific issues.
Others’ suggestions for HH and Sierra Club and Surfrider are also good ones.

That being said, my other recommendation would be to suggest the child help with the campaign of some VERY local candidates–your local school board. Your kid will know immediately where each candidate stands on issues close to their world of experience. The kid will be able to speak to the topics at hand immediately and know whether the candidate has students’ best interests at heart.

Best of luck. I think it’s great that you are encouraging civil participation at this age–there are so many jaded teenagers who don’t get involved. It’s great that you are fostering their participation.

[Shadowfax]

[quote=Aecetia]Green is gone: “Renewable power companies have been forced to abandon attempts to raise money on the London and Madrid stock markets amid fallout from the European debt crisis and concerns about future public spending levels.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/may/13/renewables-float-spain-economic-uncertainty%5B/quote%5D
Call me a lefty, but this makes me quite sad. Not only do we not have enough enterprises ready to put “green” energy on the market, but the markets don’t have any support for the few that are left! I don’t see much future in getting the US off oil if there’s little invesment interest in other forms of energy….

To change the tone of this debate a little, what makes “green” energy or other industries so hard to promote and produce? It definitely takes a lot of money (and permits and such) to erect a wind farm, but an oil rig must take at least that much, right? Are the profits just so much bigger? Barrels of oil vs. kilowatts of wind power?

I guess a key difference is there’s little or no intermediate market–crude oil has to be processed and then distributed, so there’s lots of opportunities for money to change hands there.

Wind and sun convert pretty easily (I am no expert, but I don’t see any refineries connected to the houses in town with solar panels) into electricity.

Are we just making green energy too simple to be profitable?

As for the jobs generated in CA–I have seen an uptick of solar-related contractors lately. Surely there’s a few hundred jobs there? Or do they not count becuase they are probably all out of work roofers who just made a career change….

[Shadowfax]

[quote=Aecetia]Green is gone: “Renewable power companies have been forced to abandon attempts to raise money on the London and Madrid stock markets amid fallout from the European debt crisis and concerns about future public spending levels.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/may/13/renewables-float-spain-economic-uncertainty%5B/quote%5D
Call me a lefty, but this makes me quite sad. Not only do we not have enough enterprises ready to put “green” energy on the market, but the markets don’t have any support for the few that are left! I don’t see much future in getting the US off oil if there’s little invesment interest in other forms of energy….

To change the tone of this debate a little, what makes “green” energy or other industries so hard to promote and produce? It definitely takes a lot of money (and permits and such) to erect a wind farm, but an oil rig must take at least that much, right? Are the profits just so much bigger? Barrels of oil vs. kilowatts of wind power?

I guess a key difference is there’s little or no intermediate market–crude oil has to be processed and then distributed, so there’s lots of opportunities for money to change hands there.

Wind and sun convert pretty easily (I am no expert, but I don’t see any refineries connected to the houses in town with solar panels) into electricity.

Are we just making green energy too simple to be profitable?

As for the jobs generated in CA–I have seen an uptick of solar-related contractors lately. Surely there’s a few hundred jobs there? Or do they not count becuase they are probably all out of work roofers who just made a career change….

[Shadowfax]

[quote=Aecetia]Green is gone: “Renewable power companies have been forced to abandon attempts to raise money on the London and Madrid stock markets amid fallout from the European debt crisis and concerns about future public spending levels.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/may/13/renewables-float-spain-economic-uncertainty%5B/quote%5D
Call me a lefty, but this makes me quite sad. Not only do we not have enough enterprises ready to put “green” energy on the market, but the markets don’t have any support for the few that are left! I don’t see much future in getting the US off oil if there’s little invesment interest in other forms of energy….

To change the tone of this debate a little, what makes “green” energy or other industries so hard to promote and produce? It definitely takes a lot of money (and permits and such) to erect a wind farm, but an oil rig must take at least that much, right? Are the profits just so much bigger? Barrels of oil vs. kilowatts of wind power?

I guess a key difference is there’s little or no intermediate market–crude oil has to be processed and then distributed, so there’s lots of opportunities for money to change hands there.

Wind and sun convert pretty easily (I am no expert, but I don’t see any refineries connected to the houses in town with solar panels) into electricity.

Are we just making green energy too simple to be profitable?

As for the jobs generated in CA–I have seen an uptick of solar-related contractors lately. Surely there’s a few hundred jobs there? Or do they not count becuase they are probably all out of work roofers who just made a career change….

[Author]

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