[SDEngineer]

[quote=jpinpb]I understand the two different scenarios. However, look at Obama. Single mom. There are many people that struggle but still have choices. [/quote]

And there always will be those success stories.

However, in the U.S. (one of the most capitalistic of the industrialized nations), vertical class mobility is far lower than in most of western Europe (where most of the nations have a more socialistic capitalist system). In other words, which economic class you are born into in the U.S. is more likely to determine where you will economically end up than in other industrialized nations.

Opportunity is there, but it’s harder to take advantage of in our system compared to many others.

[SDEngineer]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]CA Renter: I see the point you are trying to make, and it’s valid. However, you are also using examples that are diametrically polar opposites. Of course, the answer is obvious.

I’d be more curious about, say, a lower middle class white kid, whose dad is a blue collar worker with a good work ethic, who comes from an intact family and who is the product of public school and a state university or college.

Juxtapose this kid with a lower middle class Hispanic kid with a similar family with similar values and the same educational background.

I’d be willing to bet good money that those two kids enjoy the same level of success. [/quote]

I don’t think this was intended to make a point about race. It was intended to make a point about class.

Someone from a lower class background – even one that values work – has a much lower chance to succeed financially than someone brought up in an upper class background that similarly values work.

While the opportunity to succeed is always there, the fact is that under our system, most people stay in a similar financial class as their parents. They simply start out disadvantaged compared to those wealthier than them.

[SDEngineer]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]CA Renter: I see the point you are trying to make, and it’s valid. However, you are also using examples that are diametrically polar opposites. Of course, the answer is obvious.

I’d be more curious about, say, a lower middle class white kid, whose dad is a blue collar worker with a good work ethic, who comes from an intact family and who is the product of public school and a state university or college.

Juxtapose this kid with a lower middle class Hispanic kid with a similar family with similar values and the same educational background.

I’d be willing to bet good money that those two kids enjoy the same level of success. [/quote]

I don’t think this was intended to make a point about race. It was intended to make a point about class.

Someone from a lower class background – even one that values work – has a much lower chance to succeed financially than someone brought up in an upper class background that similarly values work.

While the opportunity to succeed is always there, the fact is that under our system, most people stay in a similar financial class as their parents. They simply start out disadvantaged compared to those wealthier than them.

[SDEngineer]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]CA Renter: I see the point you are trying to make, and it’s valid. However, you are also using examples that are diametrically polar opposites. Of course, the answer is obvious.

I’d be more curious about, say, a lower middle class white kid, whose dad is a blue collar worker with a good work ethic, who comes from an intact family and who is the product of public school and a state university or college.

Juxtapose this kid with a lower middle class Hispanic kid with a similar family with similar values and the same educational background.

I’d be willing to bet good money that those two kids enjoy the same level of success. [/quote]

I don’t think this was intended to make a point about race. It was intended to make a point about class.

Someone from a lower class background – even one that values work – has a much lower chance to succeed financially than someone brought up in an upper class background that similarly values work.

While the opportunity to succeed is always there, the fact is that under our system, most people stay in a similar financial class as their parents. They simply start out disadvantaged compared to those wealthier than them.

[SDEngineer]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]CA Renter: I see the point you are trying to make, and it’s valid. However, you are also using examples that are diametrically polar opposites. Of course, the answer is obvious.

I’d be more curious about, say, a lower middle class white kid, whose dad is a blue collar worker with a good work ethic, who comes from an intact family and who is the product of public school and a state university or college.

Juxtapose this kid with a lower middle class Hispanic kid with a similar family with similar values and the same educational background.

I’d be willing to bet good money that those two kids enjoy the same level of success. [/quote]

I don’t think this was intended to make a point about race. It was intended to make a point about class.

Someone from a lower class background – even one that values work – has a much lower chance to succeed financially than someone brought up in an upper class background that similarly values work.

While the opportunity to succeed is always there, the fact is that under our system, most people stay in a similar financial class as their parents. They simply start out disadvantaged compared to those wealthier than them.

[SDEngineer]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]CA Renter: I see the point you are trying to make, and it’s valid. However, you are also using examples that are diametrically polar opposites. Of course, the answer is obvious.

I’d be more curious about, say, a lower middle class white kid, whose dad is a blue collar worker with a good work ethic, who comes from an intact family and who is the product of public school and a state university or college.

Juxtapose this kid with a lower middle class Hispanic kid with a similar family with similar values and the same educational background.

I’d be willing to bet good money that those two kids enjoy the same level of success. [/quote]

I don’t think this was intended to make a point about race. It was intended to make a point about class.

Someone from a lower class background – even one that values work – has a much lower chance to succeed financially than someone brought up in an upper class background that similarly values work.

While the opportunity to succeed is always there, the fact is that under our system, most people stay in a similar financial class as their parents. They simply start out disadvantaged compared to those wealthier than them.

[SDEngineer]

As Rich’s investment site notes (in “US Not Going Down Japan’s Road” on the right hand column at the top), it’s not likely we’re in for a Japanese scenario. This will be a different kettle of fish here – the Japanese chose not to inflate their way out of their mess. We, on the other hand, are clearly choosing to inflate our way out of ours.

Regardless, over the long run (>40 year timeframe), housing has appreciated at no more that the rate of wage inflation (historically, about 3.5% per year averaged over the long term). 5% is indeed optimistic, but possible as we’re probably headed for a period of serious inflation, which will eventually (although not at the start, when inflation will primarily strike commodities, thus increasing cost of living) have the likely effect of inflating wages as well.

[SDEngineer]

As Rich’s investment site notes (in “US Not Going Down Japan’s Road” on the right hand column at the top), it’s not likely we’re in for a Japanese scenario. This will be a different kettle of fish here – the Japanese chose not to inflate their way out of their mess. We, on the other hand, are clearly choosing to inflate our way out of ours.

Regardless, over the long run (>40 year timeframe), housing has appreciated at no more that the rate of wage inflation (historically, about 3.5% per year averaged over the long term). 5% is indeed optimistic, but possible as we’re probably headed for a period of serious inflation, which will eventually (although not at the start, when inflation will primarily strike commodities, thus increasing cost of living) have the likely effect of inflating wages as well.

[SDEngineer]

As Rich’s investment site notes (in “US Not Going Down Japan’s Road” on the right hand column at the top), it’s not likely we’re in for a Japanese scenario. This will be a different kettle of fish here – the Japanese chose not to inflate their way out of their mess. We, on the other hand, are clearly choosing to inflate our way out of ours.

Regardless, over the long run (>40 year timeframe), housing has appreciated at no more that the rate of wage inflation (historically, about 3.5% per year averaged over the long term). 5% is indeed optimistic, but possible as we’re probably headed for a period of serious inflation, which will eventually (although not at the start, when inflation will primarily strike commodities, thus increasing cost of living) have the likely effect of inflating wages as well.

[SDEngineer]

As Rich’s investment site notes (in “US Not Going Down Japan’s Road” on the right hand column at the top), it’s not likely we’re in for a Japanese scenario. This will be a different kettle of fish here – the Japanese chose not to inflate their way out of their mess. We, on the other hand, are clearly choosing to inflate our way out of ours.

Regardless, over the long run (>40 year timeframe), housing has appreciated at no more that the rate of wage inflation (historically, about 3.5% per year averaged over the long term). 5% is indeed optimistic, but possible as we’re probably headed for a period of serious inflation, which will eventually (although not at the start, when inflation will primarily strike commodities, thus increasing cost of living) have the likely effect of inflating wages as well.

[SDEngineer]

As Rich’s investment site notes (in “US Not Going Down Japan’s Road” on the right hand column at the top), it’s not likely we’re in for a Japanese scenario. This will be a different kettle of fish here – the Japanese chose not to inflate their way out of their mess. We, on the other hand, are clearly choosing to inflate our way out of ours.

Regardless, over the long run (>40 year timeframe), housing has appreciated at no more that the rate of wage inflation (historically, about 3.5% per year averaged over the long term). 5% is indeed optimistic, but possible as we’re probably headed for a period of serious inflation, which will eventually (although not at the start, when inflation will primarily strike commodities, thus increasing cost of living) have the likely effect of inflating wages as well.

[SDEngineer]

[quote=AN]There are probably different implementation of socialism too. I know many people from Sweden and over there, you’d get pay equivalent doing manual labor work as being an engineer. Since school is also free over there, many people chose to do manual labor work instead since it require less education and you get paid the similar.[/quote]

Entry level this is true – however, this is not true once you get into mid career path (I work with a Swede :D).

It is not true once you hit mid career levels or higher. A mid career engineer there makes a little less than here, but is still well above median wage (either here or there). 75K or so in equivalent dollars. Management is a bump above that. The payscale is somewhat compressed compared to here, but there is still a range, and the higher demand and higher education jobs still pay significantly better over a career.

[SDEngineer]

[quote=AN]There are probably different implementation of socialism too. I know many people from Sweden and over there, you’d get pay equivalent doing manual labor work as being an engineer. Since school is also free over there, many people chose to do manual labor work instead since it require less education and you get paid the similar.[/quote]

Entry level this is true – however, this is not true once you get into mid career path (I work with a Swede :D).

It is not true once you hit mid career levels or higher. A mid career engineer there makes a little less than here, but is still well above median wage (either here or there). 75K or so in equivalent dollars. Management is a bump above that. The payscale is somewhat compressed compared to here, but there is still a range, and the higher demand and higher education jobs still pay significantly better over a career.

[SDEngineer]

[quote=AN]There are probably different implementation of socialism too. I know many people from Sweden and over there, you’d get pay equivalent doing manual labor work as being an engineer. Since school is also free over there, many people chose to do manual labor work instead since it require less education and you get paid the similar.[/quote]

Entry level this is true – however, this is not true once you get into mid career path (I work with a Swede :D).

It is not true once you hit mid career levels or higher. A mid career engineer there makes a little less than here, but is still well above median wage (either here or there). 75K or so in equivalent dollars. Management is a bump above that. The payscale is somewhat compressed compared to here, but there is still a range, and the higher demand and higher education jobs still pay significantly better over a career.

[SDEngineer]

[quote=AN]There are probably different implementation of socialism too. I know many people from Sweden and over there, you’d get pay equivalent doing manual labor work as being an engineer. Since school is also free over there, many people chose to do manual labor work instead since it require less education and you get paid the similar.[/quote]

Entry level this is true – however, this is not true once you get into mid career path (I work with a Swede :D).

It is not true once you hit mid career levels or higher. A mid career engineer there makes a little less than here, but is still well above median wage (either here or there). 75K or so in equivalent dollars. Management is a bump above that. The payscale is somewhat compressed compared to here, but there is still a range, and the higher demand and higher education jobs still pay significantly better over a career.

[Author]

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