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SD Realtor
ParticipantHi Arny –
In the case of a short sale, absolutely the Seller is responsible for full disclosure. The PR will identify all issues regarding title including all liens and your lender would not approve your loan unless all of the liens were cured.
I do not really understand why the listing agent is reluctant to show the house. I have not had that same experience. I have had no problem showing clients short sale homes. If you called that listing agent and asked them to show you the home, and you told them you were not represented, they should be encouraged to show you the home as they can get both sides of the commission. However if you told them you wanted to see the home, but that you have an agent, then more likely that listing agent will ask you to get your own agent to show you the home. If this is not the case then yeah it is a lazy agent.
Regarding the MLS listing you posted about. From the tax roll on 9/2005 there are two recordings, it looks like a first mortgage for 620k and a second for 155k. The home is currently listed at 600k-625k. That is a nice little bath the lender will be taking.
SD Realtor
ParticipantHi JJG –
Yes when the seller signed the listing agreement the seller agreed to pay the listing agent a certain commission amount. Also there is a section in the listing agreement that addresses paying a commission to the cooperating broker.
So yes if there is no coop broker, (you use a lawyer for instance) I do not see why you could not submit an offer to the seller similar to what I outlined in the previous post. In this case you are not represented. However you still request a credit for closing costs or adjust the asking price in a corresponding manner. Again, realize the closing cost credit is limited to what the lender will be comfortable with. Alternately ask the lawyer to craft a purchase agreement with the appropriate credit for closing costs applied.
Personally, I do not advise anyone to ask the sellers to alter any agreements for commissions they have with thier listing agents. (just my opinion) My advice to buyers is to strike the best deal they can within the parameters of things they can influence including the asking price, and commission thier realtor or fixed fee thier lawyer would/could get based on thier agreement with the lawyer/realtor that represents them.
February 22, 2007 at 1:32 PM in reply to: Realtor Buddy wants to list my home at an inflated price to meet potential clients #46016ParticipantI am just cutting and pasting what mtnbiker wrote:
“However, my realtor buddy still wants me to list the house at a now higher price (that way it is less likely I get an offer) so he can get potential buyers that he can then show other properties to knowing I really do not want to sell.”
Taken in this exact context I have a problem with this sort of behavior. The main reason for listing the home is not to sell the home, rather, for the realtor to get buyers.
For all of the complaining on this post about pricing of homes, unrealistic sellers, and poor behavior by realtors, I find it interesting those same posters didn’t come down and lower the boom on a suggestion like this.
IMO no this behavior is not common practice in the real estate industry, and it is yet another example that reflects poorly on us all.
ParticipantSD Bear –
Under the circumstances you laid out, why don’t you simply go in unrepresented and hire a real estate attorney? If you found the home, if you negotiated the price, why use a broker at all? If you didn’t ask the Realtor to show any other homes or do a comp analysis or anything else, why use one at all?
SD Realtor
ParticipantHi Daniel
My email is [email protected].
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Once again, I think that the majority of people only have experienced one side of real estate. Lets look at some other real life examples, these are 2 cases that happened to me within the past year.1 – Showed a couple over 25 homes in Eastlake over a span of 4 months. Went with them 3 times to thier credit union. Introduced them to 5 different mortgage brokers. Encouraged them to wait for at least a year to buy after reviewing thier finances. They didn’t want to wait. Set up a great commission package for them in writing. Well after over 150 hours of work including 4 lowball purchase offers, they ended up buying from a listing agent.
2 – Same situation but this was a young couple looking for a home in Carlsbad. Exact same but a little MORE time involved over 6 months. They ended up going with a mortgage broker to write up the deal.
I guess my point is, there are posts and posts and posts about the unjustified commissions. However there is never any recognition about the hours and hours of free service. I think that for every buyer there is a unique situation and the buyer and Realtor can structure a fair deal. Perhaps the commission rebate can slide with the amount of homes shown or something like that.
Now HONESTLY… Tell me, how many of you potential buyers would pay $150 an hour to look at homes on a Sunday per the Redfin ?
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
My answer is no way. I AM a potential buyer. If I was not a Realtor I would look on Realtor.com and get the addresses and do drive bys and visit open houses. I would find a good commission rebate offer and work with that buyers agent.
The other thing about Redfin that I find discouraging is the open admission to ask listing agents to show you the home with NO INTENT to use them to represent you. To me this is not only misleading but it can absolutely lead to problems with procurring cause.
Exeunt – Your comment that your agent is your best friend and then wants nothing to do with you is A PERFECT EXAMPLE of a poor agent. In fact if this were true then no agents would get repeat customers nor would they get referrals. I find it to be quite incorrect, at least in my case and in the case of many other fine Realtors.
Again, there are lots and lots of boneheads out there, no argument there.
As for the tax issues and commission rebates? I am not a CPA, I always tell clients that and I tell them to talk to the tax professional they work with.
SD Realtor
ParticipantThere also may be outstanding liens on the property that have not yet been identified as well so it is a little bit more difficult to identify if it is a deal from that aspect or not. As FSD said, concentrate on whether the house for the price is a good deal, regardless of short sale, preforeclosure etc. This is the very best advice.
As homes fall further into the default process, the less you can expect from the listing agent with regards to service if you are a buyer. For instance, in a normal sale, if you work directly with the listing agent, what little service and support you get becomes miniscule in a short sale. In a foreclosure not only do you get no service, you will be asked to sign off an ANY liability because the lender owns the home and the disclosures are meaningless. In all fairness how can a lender even disclose any information about the house if they never occupied it.
I am not saying foreclosures and short sales are not potential great deals. IMO they are BUT I am disappointed that they have not been priced aggressively yet…Hopefully as time marches on this will change.
SD Realtor
ParticipantJJG –
I will try to answer your question but I am doing it in a gingerly manner because I don’t want to be accussed of shilling or promoting fraud.
A “possible” and what I would term “very much recommended way” to get a rebate would be as follows:
– Lets just say for instance you struck a deal to say split the commission 50/50 with your agent. Lets say the seller was paying 3% commission to the buyers agent.
– When you submit the offer, in the purchase agreement you include a request of 1.5% credit towards non-recurring closing costs. Your Realtor will also submit a coop commission agreement agreeing to only take 1.5% commission rather then the 3% of the commission.
– Now, all parties involved, including the lender, appraisers etc will see that a credit is involved here so there is nothing being hidden.
Now as Bugs can correctly chime in and say that lenders scrutinize credits. So the bottom line is that these credit should be used AS STATED, for non-recurring closing costs. Don’t expect that the credit will come back to you as cash. However, you can effectively use it for your loan origination fees, buying down the loan, etc…
From the perspective of the IRS it is no different then any other credit in a real estate transaction.
Now there may be brokerages that issue credits or rebates in the form of writing a check directly to the client after the transaction is closed and then sending them a 1099 at the end of the year. I cannot comment on that because it is not something I am familiar with.
JJG – Also yeah simply reducing the purchase price and asking your Realtor to simply accept a lower commission is just as easy and effective.
SE – You can ask your agent for a commission rebate or to reduce the commission he/she will take and lower the purchase price. All she can say is no. She most likely will not have any say in the matter because it is up to her broker not her.
These sort of statements don’t exactly make me a darling among my peers.
I think that each case merits insight. If you are a buyer and have only had your Realtor show you a few places, then yeah perhaps a commission rebate is warranted. However, if your Realtor has shown you 30 different homes, spent weekends driving around for you, sent comps all over the place, and put in alot of time and effort for you then most likely they are earning thier money. Remember most/all realtors who work for the big boys share a slice of that pie.
SD Realtor
ParticipantI read the article. Quite interesting.
With absolutely no doubt I can say that you can get the same rebate as the Redfin model and receive much better buyers agent services.
SD Realtor
February 21, 2007 at 10:41 AM in reply to: Realtor Buddy wants to list my home at an inflated price to meet potential clients #45906ParticipantThis behavior is EXACTLY why so many people are down on Realtors. In my opinion, no this is not ethical in any way but note that this is simply accepting and even contributing to the problems people have with the entire real estate process. Furthermore it will give a false “potential” pricing level to neighbors who are considering selling thier homes as well.
If your friend wants to drum up business then I am sure he can poll the other agents in his office and hold open houses for thier listings.
I am not trying to be sour on you per say mtnbiker but the industry professionals that don’t behave like this pay the price when others do this sort of stuff.
SD Realtor
Participantdoublewide good for you!!! Perhaps we are neighbors as I rent in Scripps as well. Tell you mother in law not to give up on lowballing. For the moment the tide has turned against us lowballers but lets see how things look come the late summertime.
SD Realtor
February 18, 2007 at 5:30 PM in reply to: Apt complexes being converted to Condo’s before its “Too late” #45737Participantcawireman –
The mapping process is a pretty big chore. There are alot of apartments that will go ahead and move forward with the mapping process for reason A that you stated. I was not aware that the city was going to not allow conversions. I “thought” that the conversion process was going to become a whole lot more of a chore because there was going to be a mandatory EIR, (Environmental Impact Report) with conversion the conversion process. I am definitely not an expert on that so I am I will be corrected. SD Realtor
ParticipantJJGittes I totally understand your post. It is hit and miss… For instance, yesterday I was showing homes to a couple who I have been working with for about 4 months now. Yesterday we saw homes number 34-39. That constitutes about 10 full days over the last 4 months of looking with them. This is after working with them for about 3 months last spring. I am not justifying the commissions made, however I am saying that there “can be” alot of legwork. Now I have also had my share of quick hitters who I had to basically do no showing time at all so it does all even out and I am not at all justifying the dollars you are talking about in your previous post.
The commission structure is not an argument that I can win. I can say that there are alot of alternatives. Realize though that even your best realtor at a large brokerage does not pocket all that commission. He/she splits it with the broker, the corporate entity of the brokerage itself, etc… Am I defending this? No not at all. However some people do not realize this and they think that the idiot realtor walked with all that money when that is not the case.
There are lots of alternatives out there for people to save money, commission rebates, using a real estate attorney, etc… Again though, whoever you use, be it a realtor who works for a full service brokerage, or anyone else, if they are good and EARN your trust, then in the long run it will be a good decision.
Oh yeah, and yes JJG I have dealt with alot, ALOT, of those moronic goofballs you are talking about… Aye caramba… Over the past week I had a run of 3 of them that drove me crazy on 3 different transactions. Your post was on target, these types make messes that forever stain the industry.
ParticipantFutureSDguy, the buyer can even inform the listing agent that he/she will represent themself. Also as you said they can ask the listing agent to represent them for any commission they want. After all, all commissions are negotiable. It is doubtful that the listing agents broker will allow it but the buyer can certainly ask.
It is simply the quality of the representation that is in question here. Most everyone here feels that realtors are not worth much if anything at all. That is okay and certainly understandable. Most all transactions work out okay for people. However if you are the unlucky person who happens to have taken the shortcut and you get boned, it can be a very expensive lesson.
Lets say you had the listing agent represent you in a purchase… lets say the home have polybutalene plumbing and the other comparable home down the street didn’t have poly but in every way was just as comparable. Would that listing agent encourage you to consider the other home?
I think that when you buy a home you really want to enlist as many advocates as you can. A good realtor will not press you into buying a home just to get the commission. If the realtor is good, they know you will buy eventually, whether it is a week later, or a few years later. Again, many people do not see value in the representation and experience a good realtor can give you. Those that do, certainly benefit. If you ask enough of your friends, you will eventually come across someone who did find great value in a realtor. It may take awhile but you will.
SD Realtor
ParticipantI took a client there as well. The homes are crammed in pretty tight. My client wanted more yard but the homes were nice.
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