[scaredyclassic]

[quote=flyer]Thanks for all your thoughts.[/quote]

There’s definitely safety in numbers.

But we all die alone.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=flyer]I think it’s great that most of us who have contributed to this thread seem to know exactly what we “know” or “believe.” It won’t change anything for me or millions of other people who think as I do, but it’s interesting. Even had several laughs along the way.

I can live with disparaging remarks about religious beliefs (don’t care) but, please never ever tell me you don’t “believe” in being a millionaire. That’s when I’d really be crushed.[/quote]

Prosperity gospel is about as egotistical as it gets, but very veryvl american…

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=flyer]I think it’s great that most of us who have contributed to this thread seem to know exactly what we “know” or “believe.” It won’t change anything for me or millions of other people who think as I do, but it’s interesting. Even had several laughs along the way.

I can live with disparaging remarks about religious beliefs (don’t care) but, please never ever tell me you don’t “believe” in being a millionaire. That’s when I’d really be crushed.[/quote]

Having millions of adherents doesn’t strengthen the truth of the position, though it makes the story seem better, at first glance, than the farting bear.

One kinda feels millions of people can’t all believe something that is patently false …but they can.

That you implicitly support your position with numbers of believers supports the evangelical view: the more people I can persuade the better and less ridiculous we sound. Whether its that I found golden tablets in new york, magic underwear for heaven, celestial bear farts or crucifixion that affect souls for all eternuty, the more likely people will take me serious, and the greater dominance we can have culturally.

One guy believes it—he’s nuts..m

A million people believe…It’s divine…

The more people believe the more likely it’s wrong….

[scaredyclassic]

Gay rights are not an issue for youngsters …it’s just accepted.

Religions k I nd a the same. They’re uninterested and find it not even something for debate.

I’d prefer to see them more likevme. At least interested in being opposed.

[scaredyclassic]

For Jews intermarriage is equivalent to voting with your feet. It’s an insult to other jews. My parents were terrified my kids would be Jesus freaks who despised me.

My folks were wrong on that one.

[scaredyclassic]

Even bad publicity is good. I’m sure G-d would enjoy this chat if he were in the right mood. But leave him be if he’s cranky.

[scaredyclassic]

The Jews have been arguing with and negotiating with G-d con centuries. When Abraham was trying to strike a deal with G-d in Genesis to save sodom, basically what we we see is everything is negotiable. Perhaps even whether or not it is worth believing.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=FlyerInHi]I once watched a movie about life in an orthodox jewish community in Israel. If you fall out of line, the community will ostracize you and make your life a living hell. They even post bills around to community to denounce you.

If you are Jewish-American, you could always leave. But if you were born there and that’s all you know, then you have no choice but to believe.[/quote]

Judaism is a tribe.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=scaredyclassic]Religion is best in moderate dosages and should not be ingested full strength.[/quote]

Such as wearing a yarmulke if you travel distances greater than five feet and honoring the proscription for using G-d’s name in full?[/quote]

Exactly. Beware of G-d.

The overlap between what we believe and what we say we believe is smaller than the eye of a needle.

[scaredyclassic]

Religion is best in moderate dosages and should not be ingested full strength.

[scaredyclassic]

Extreme faith of certain sorts is incompatible with reason. If I decided to become a wandering ascetic in search of signs and holy visiins, fasting to see miraculous visiins …that might get in the way if my reason.

That’s an extreme position … A mild innocuous faith probably won’t mess you up that bad… just don’t get too serious about it.

Kinda like this Jewish mother I know who raised her kid to be kinda liberal jewish. The kid went way overboard, married strict orthodox, moved to israel…The whole 9 ysrds…

Too much, man!

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=zk][quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=zk][quote=flyer]I find it amusing that “nonbelievers” think their opinion is more valid than “believers.”

[/quote]

Not more valid necessarily, but definitely more rational.[/quote]

zk: So, you’re arguing AGAINST dogmatism, by USING dogmatism?[/quote]

No. I’m not saying that my position is incontrovertibly true (dogmatism).

I’m saying that my position is rational. Completely different from incontrovertibly true.

Rational means based on or in accordance with reason or logic. I have used reason and logic to arrive at my conclusion. Faith, by definition, does not use these things to reach a conclusion.[/quote]

zk: In a previous post, you asserted that ALL religions were a “fantasy”. Not SOME or CERTAIN, but ALL. That’s a dogmatic assertion. Interestingly, as someone who believes in empiricism and observable phenomena, that’s a position you cannot PROVE.

Here’s the point I was trying to make: Faith and Reason are not incompatible. You referenced astronomy (spherical Earth) and microbiology (bacteria) in a previous post. Some of the greatest research in those areas has been performed by people of faith. Did their faith or beliefs get in the way of their research? It doesn’t appear so. If you were to remove the body of work from just the Catholic scientists, researchers, doctors, etc, you would take away a staggering amount from science.

Saint Thomas Aquinas was one of the first contributors and proponents of the scientific method used extensively to this day. One can hold Faith and Reason with equal ease, was my point.[/quote]

true but doesn’t mean it helped. Or that thir belief was sincerely held.

[scaredyclassic]

I’m pretty confident that I have no ancestors anywhere living or dead for whom marrying a Catholic and raising Catholics is acceptable.

The world changes. THE g-d of our fathers lives and dies with our mating choices.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Blogstar][quote=scaredyclassic][quote=Blogstar]Probably a certain vanity or egotism , not humility at all , in being haughty about the believers. If the believers seem consistently more fucked up than the rest of us then maybe I could see laughing in their faces, but it just isn’t that way.

To me it’s about how we chose to be governed. We all have to chose sources to fulfill our need for governance. Religion is above all a form or forms of governance of societies and individuals. Look at the right wingers , most religiously fanatic and anti-government, with the strong attachment to governance by religion it makes sense. Their need for governance is filled by churches and bible verses so they have psychic space to be more hostile to the government…Jesus is their president. They say stuff like that

Others of us chose to be governed more by the actual standing government, social convention, our friends and families in some hodge podge way and don’t see a need for church/religion. But, I think it’s fair to say that these types of governances are as flawed or nearly as flawed as most of those that have a large dose of religion..so get off the high horse.[/quote]

that makes sense. I think I shaLol adopt it as my belief system.[/quote]

I know you tried to sneak a shalom in there. A lot of us are vestigially governed by religion. it’s like the tail we still have whether we like it or not….only potentially more troublesome. The most vocally anti-religious are the most torn inside over the issue. Damn, I just made the sign of the cross over myself again![/quote]

It’s difficult to communicate without a langusge.

It’s as difficult to speak about this subject as if the past, ones family and people did notvexist.

My ancestors would probably chase me down and beat me with a stick for these thoughts. Or maybe not. I think my paternal great grandfather would’ve made tea and discussed the subject w amusement

[scaredyclassic]

I weep right on cue at virtually every movie that asks me to.

My wife finds this hilarious.

[Author]

Posts