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[quote=CA renter]If you want to claim that a SAHPs contribution isn’t worth anything, then the contributions of the wage earner aren’t worth anything, either. After all, s/he would have to work to support him/herself, anyway, so it’s not like they are necessarily doing anything *extra* for the family, right?

edited to add:

And if the wage-earner derives any non-monetary benefit from this job in the form of prestige, social status, friendships, a sense of purpose, etc., then this spouse is LUCKY that the SAHP “let’s” him/her go to work each day. Right?[/quote]

that was my wife’s position as a SAHM.

that I got to go relax and have fun and hang out with adults at work every day.

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Karma doesn’t exist.

Luck might.

But it’s definitely too risky to drive with even one drink on board.

just too much downside.

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stuff i say to my kids:

I’m so glad you’re on the planet. You make my life really interesting and good. thank G-d you’re here or id be so lonely wanting you guys as id have no one to drink or play ping pong with.

stuff i don’t say:

jeez, if id been unable to have kids naturally, i wouldve had to have spent50k on likely ultimately unsuccessful in vitro fertility treatments, and then 50k for each of you to adopt substitute kids from overseas. that’s 200k savings right there, boys. really appreciate that 200k in the pocket….you guys are awesome. i mean, i really woulda spent the money, so it’s just like they actually made me that money by being such good sperm and eggs…

strangely, this is actually probably true…

but my kdis didnt make me 200k richer by being conceived so easily, even accidentally in certain cases…

they cost me a shitload of money!!!

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i ahve a feeling after this kind of argument im not getting laid…

would it be worth anything if i said i love you?

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i feel like we are an old married couple arguing and im not even sure what we are arguing about anymore.

i concede that it would cost a lot of money to hire someone to do what you do.

i don’t concede I’d actually hire anyone to do it. id cobble together some sort of patchwork to hold shit together.

i concede you make my life much richer.

but i refuse to put a dollar value on it.

and it’s not worth X cause you say it is.

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i like lifting weights. i could pay someone to lift weights for me, but it would kind of defeat the purpose.

i could have kids and pay someone else to raise them. but wouldnt that kind of defeat the purpose in a similar way.?

isn’t raising kids more like an art, a craft, a hobby and a purpose, than a job?

sure, if you were in a bind and needed to pay someone to watch the damned kids, it would cost you a pretty penny.

but that’s not the plan going in, right? the plan is it’s unpriced, priceless, and while it is hopefully appreciated, we can’t really pretend our kids are making the world a richer better place. they are a drain. a cost. like a hobby.

if id had 1 kid instead of 3, my wife woulda got back to work sooner, and we’d be quite a bit “wealthier” in terms of money. all the rich life satisfaction we got out of the other 2 would be missing though, and our lif would not be nearly as cool as it is, but…what about the unborn ones…the girl… she misses the daughter we never had.

but if we’d had that 4th kid, a girl, and she had had to watch the kids longer, we’d be even poorer, hell we wouldnt be living in this nice house probably. we’d have been screwed financially i think. 3 was the limit of what we could do to be in the situation we are in. even that was pretty hairy.

i know I would have been out even more money if we’d had that kid and had to pay a nanny to watch her. but if we’d had her, and my wife watched her, our net worth would be a lot lower.

imputed income my ass.

we would have had no house, and much much less savings.

but is this whole “savings” thing a moneymaking enterprise? you just can’t get rich having kids…

i concede the work is worth money, but not real money…. the plan is never to make money by having kids. and you seem to say that it’s a savings, JUST LIKE INCOME.

this kind of family planning is planning for bankruptcy…

if i make a big giant mess in the house on purpose, i could pay someone to clean it up, but i cant get richer by making messes and cleaning them up myself.

that’s what kids is liek to me.

it’s like having a big giant problematic mess you created with your spouse that somehow you ahve to deal with.

jst cause it would cost money to get someone to come in and clean it up doesnt mean yousaved money because you actually made the mess on purpose. you wanted the damned mess…

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[quote=CA renter][quote=scaredyclassic]True story. I actually worked as an au pair in Paris for a year in the 80s.. I escorted a 10 y.o. ballerina to L’Opera every day and picked her up watched her at home did some shopping and other stuff.

I got paid….

Zero. Just room and board.

Why the hell they trusted me I have no idea. But they were right to trust me.[/quote]

You were floating around, exploring a foreign country. I’m sure you had a fair amount of free time.

For this opportunity, you exchanged some services (and I’m willing to bet you only did a tiny fraction of what most SAHPs do). Did you have to share a bedroom and bathroom with the parents, as almost all SAHPs do, or did you get your own room? Did you have to cook the meals for the family, clean up afterward, and do their laundry, too? Did you have to have sex with your employer in order to justify your value to him/her? If the parents were sick, did you have to clean up their vomit, bathe them, and wipe their asses (as a spouse would for a sick spouse)? What if they were completely disabled…would you have stuck by their side to care for them for the rest of their lives for “free”? If you had to do all of this for your “free” room and board, would you have committed to doing all of this for 20, 30, 40+ years?[/quote]

only a fool wouldn’t marry for a SAHP. Who could pass all this up.

I think kevs ex would a bailed on the contract before fulfilling these contractual obligations

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I think 5 drinks when required is fine.

However I’m going to insist zero driving after any alcohol

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/10/20/murrieta-mayor-resigns/17644039/

Murrieta fire chief/mayor resigned after a bad crash at .07. 3 days ago. Couple drinks at dinner can real llly end badly.

I must insist on a very strict no alcohol and driving policy for all of ypu.

If you cannot comply you may not post anymore.

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In Temecula we look like hell.

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[quote=Blogstar]Warren Farrell dumped NOW over the 50/50 but is still highly regarded by great women. Thank god there is a struggle to be reasonable on custody.

I don’t have a problem with what he is saying. He is a great man in this field thus far and incredibly brave. Amazing that the PC police have not yet ruined him.

Even Bertrand Russell Was wrong about some things . Everybody great is wrong about some things. Plus this guy Warren has some issues with women Because we all have issues with this stuff. Shere Hite clearly had some issues with men and made mistakes and was not a fraction as useful as Warren Farrell. Still I don’t throw out the contributions she made because my mind is not so weak as to only tolerate a 100% palatable message.

NO=ambivalence in many case , would you put a huge freight train on the tracks get it up to 60 miles and hour and jump in front of it if you were ambivalent about getting hit.
When a female is with a a male in heavy petting or has her hand down his pants and he has advanced that far as well, Is still arousing him and saying no, her strongest feeling is ambivalence. What she is really ambivalent about is whether she wants the man to be linked to her or not. She is partially responsible for still being in a mind frame of deciding this in front of a freight train she put on the tracks.

Many times the encounter happens and unlike with a real train the woman lives to tell about…most the time she doesn’t though because she knows what she did.

Are there cases of terrible date rape , yes, but they don’t speak for the whole topic of “No”. I am not sure what yes means yes is about but I like the sound of it. I will teach my boys to be very leary of women who are ambivalent in the heat of passion , that was my way and it served me well. I will definitely tell them to be leary of women who are drinking or taking drugs. Be very leary of a woman who is in a position to have psychological problems over having sex with you.

I don’t know how wise the courts are in this wacked out schismatic country, but I am glad there are people like Warren helping them stay on track.

Ps the only time I ever saw anything REAL incest like it was a woman giving a Real mock blow job to her toddler son. Women suck their kids fingers all the time. Do they do it to boys more than girls? Warren just says let’s talk about this stuff.[/quote]

here’s a bizarre unpublished rape fact. Google rape orgasm. Data shows 4 to 6 perc. Of actual rape victims involuntarily orgasm during a rape including stranger rapes with extreme danger.

people are wired differently than we might think

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True story. I actually worked as an au pair in Paris for a year in the 80s.. I escorted a 10 y.o. ballerina to L’Opera every day and picked her up watched her at home did some shopping and other stuff.

I got paid….

Zero. Just room and board.

Why the hell they trusted me I have no idea. But they were right to trust me.

[scaredyclassic]

Scared of having a crazy girl I’m responsible for. She could be…nuts. my boys listen. We get each other. I’m not sure my wife or I are qualified to communicate with a teenaged girl.

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parents probably are the worst people to engage in raising children.

maybe a steady employee is not so desireable when they suck.

chilrdren should probably be left alone a lot more than they are…less activities. more idleness.

less cooking and cleaning. just some bags of beef jerky and gatorade.

This Be The Verse
BY PHILIP LARKIN
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself

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certain tools may be very expensive but only have value toa particular carftsman. similarly, a nanny’s “value” is only relativeto the dollar value of the money the person who would have been the caretaker can earn instead of doing the care.

that value varies tremendously on the income of the employer/parent.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=CA renter][quote=scaredyclassic]

the project of all the housework, the goal if you will, is to produce children. that’s the product of all this work.

and perhaps that has a negative net value to society.

like an enterprise that tans leather and dumps lots of toxins and destroys a river. they made some leather, yeah, but on balance, the value to society was negative.

making more people isa negative, probably at this point in time, at least from my negative perspective on the earth’s carrying capacity, global warming our general impending demise.

we should probably be PAYING for the right to reproduce. or taxed on it anyway.

so Im not persuaded that this venture of producing raising and caring for children is worth antyhing, to society at least. it’s obviously worth something to each of us, as we wouldnt do it if we werent into it.

[/quote]

Ask Japan, or any other country with a declining/stagnant population, about that one.[/quote]

I guess I was speaking on behalf of the earth not any individual nation.

[Author]

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