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[quote=CA renter][quote=zk][quote=CA renter][quote=Blogstar]You think boys and girls don’t mix in 2015 and you call it “misogynistic”? Wow![/quote]

What if we changed it to say this:

“You think whites and blacks don’t mix in 2015 and you call it “racist”? Wow!

What, exactly, are you surprised by? That it appears as though boys and girls are more segregated today than when we were growing up; or that, if true, it would be considered misogynistic?[/quote]

That doesn’t even make sense. That analogy would only hold water if someone had said that lack of interracial interaction was due to blacks hating whites and someone else said:

“You think whites and blacks don’t mix in 2015 and you say it’s because blacks hate whites? Wow!”

See, because that would be taking issue with laying the blame for the lack of interaction on one side. You blamed misogyny, and Russ took issue with it. The speaker above blamed blacks’ hate for whites. To take issue with that seems like a valid, proper, basically required response.[/quote]

My response to Brian should make clear my position on this. In the vast majority of cases that we’ve seen and experienced, the segregation is being done to prevent the “feminization” of boys; it’s not done to prevent the girls from becoming too masculine. The girls are the ones who are being excluded in almost every case.

Look at scaredy’s posts about his sons. That is what we see on a daily basis — the notion that females are “screwed up” and neurotic, and that boys need to be protected from that.[/quote]

No they need to be protected from the idea their male Ness is bad. First thing we do we get rid of these female dom I bated schools. Kids have PE half the day. Sitting quietly shall henceforth no longer be rewarded.

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[quote=njtosd][quote=CA renter]Is our society becoming even more misogynistic these days? Back when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s, we had fully mixed-gender groups of friends. I don’t ever remember a single instance when boys and girls were segregated from one another. Maybe it’s just my personality (not “girly”) and/or the groups of friends I’ve associated with over the years, but this was my experience in different regions, and in different social settings (different neighborhoods, different schools, even different countries).

We now have three daughters and have noticed that the boys and girls in our neighborhood and other social groups have become EXTREMELY segregated. Worst of all, we’ve noticed that it’s the parents who are not only encouraging this, but are forcing this on their children.

Is this a new trend, or is it a San Diego thing? Again, I’m from L.A., and we just didn’t have this sort of thing, but when I moved to SD, I noticed it even among our married friends. When we would all get together, the men would peel off from the women, and vice-versa. It was so obvious and deliberate, we just stopped hanging out with those people. Now, my DH and I are watching this situation with our kids, and it’s making us very uncomfortable.

Doe anyone actually think this is healthy for our kids? What would we be saying about this if we were talking about race or ethnicity? Why is gender the only category where discrimination and segregation are not only condoned, but encouraged? Why would anybody think this is okay?[/quote]

CA Renter – don’t you have a group of women you like to hang around with? Book club (or as my husband calls it, drinking club), hiking group, bunko, whatever?. I’m perfectly comfortable hanging out with mixed groups, or even groups of men (my profession is becoming more mixed, but I was the token female when I started), but I am most at ease with a group of female friends (and these days, frankly, female friends who are also moms). I feel like it’s a matter of common experience. I don’t see misogyny.[/quote]

But I often see misandry. Or at least a lot of detailed complain on the failures of men. Men may complain about women but not with the depth and detail that women I hear delve into…

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In general whatever happens it’s a guys fault.

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Is this intrinsic to men or is the above description the result of the last generation of mothers screwing with their sons heads.

I say the latter.

History is replete with great friendships of men. The above post sounds like men can’t be friends because they aren’t “nice”.

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My mom’s 85 and still lives by herself. She may outlive me at this rate.

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i resisted the craft beer bandwagon for a long time (wine an dcocktails)…but i gave in. im drinking some right now. i prefer MOTHER EARTH, made in vista i like the name.kinda feminist. expensive but i would say worth it. this stuff makes my life 12% better.

however right now i am drinking GREENFLASH jibe session ipa.

question; is PLINY THE ELDER as difficult to get in SD as it is in temecula? it is ALWAYS a quick sell out. i almost never see it in stock.

strangely its the beer pictured in the huffingtonpost link above.

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i was up until 3 am on monday reading THE UTOPIA OF RULES, by graber, a history of bureacracy straiht through

by this fellow who was a mover and shaker in the occupy wall street movement and who is said to have coined the phrase WE ARE THE 99%. it sounds kind of dry, right, a history of bureacracy, but it is anything but. its hilarious and brilliant. so he wrote this book on debt whcih when you look at the reviews in the front promises a work of genius. and I think it might be. check it out net time youre ina bookstore. international bestseller by an anarchist anthropologist who got kicked out of his yale professorship for being an activist wacko. its good good stuff…

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maybe im just another casualty of feminist dogma, like the childlessolder female exec who wakes up and realizes shed rather have just stayed home and had babies.

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this issue is really the main issue on my life for the last oh, 35 to 40 years.
This is a big problem for a lot of guys, not just me.

Perhaps you are familiar with Robert Bly, whose book, IRON JOHN, framed this societal problem back in the 1980s among us quasi men of “how do we become men”. a men’s awareness movement ensued, for guys who felt like they werent really guys.

More recently, “I LOVE YOU MAN”, a movie about a guy looking for a guy friend to be his best man because he only has women friends, and more recently that movie about the friendless dude who hires Kevin hart to round up some male guests for his wedding because he has no friends….i recll other movies in this genre as well..

… This issue is in the air, it’s in the culture. Women seem to know how to knit tight networks more efficiently than the lame portion of the men flock do.

i’m like paul rudd in I LOVE YOU MAN, the guy who suddenly desperately realizes men dont like him. Women generally liked me more, and I thought this was good, but realized indeed that it was a very very very bad sign.

Men need to be accepted by other men. their acceptance by women is not enough. it makes us neurotic. My dad was a nervous wreck. Still, even he had a lot more guy friends, and was “normal” and perceived as normal among the guys he hung out with, who also struck me as normal guys. He smoked cigars, he didn’t talk about weird stuff like me. he never had a doubt that he was a man, a regular man. the thought of him questioning his manhood is inconceivable to me.

So what the hell is my problem? I’m not sure. I think I’ve become a lot more like a regular man, or at least am a better simulation of one that is less identifiable as weird instantly, throught he process of raising 3 boys.

I was very scared to have boys, thinking, shoot, now I’m going to produce yet another generation of neurotic self-conscious males.

Either that, or they will be actual men,a nd will judge me harshly. Dammit. But it hasn’t turned out that way. They are for the most part extraordinarily more normal than me, and their confidence levels are orders of magnitude higher than mine were. Partly the process has brought me along, partly it seems like evidence that maybe I am a normal man, because I have raised young men who seem like regular men. they interact with other male peers not in an awkward way. That fills me with confidence in myself, oddly.

Maybe the problem is women;real men aren’t hungry to have women accept them. They just are accepted by men and therefore acceptable to women. trying to win women’s favor is unattractive to other men.

Ultimately, it is boy against girls, and I am guilty of not being fully on the boys team.

it seems so profoundly wrong to me to have women weigh in on how guys should act when they are together. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. I mean, imagine the reverse. What if I said, hey, I don’t like the way young women interact in sororities, or women’s chamber of commerce groups. I think you should behave differently. Youre promoting bad attitudes toward men. Your speech patterns are bitchy or mean. They would tell me to shut the hell up, right? they would say they need a place to be safe from the partiarchy or that they have been abused so long by men over history that a man is in no position to judge.

Because, they’d say, men are bad, it’s men’s fault the world is messed up, girl power.

And Ultimately, throughout my sad little feminized life, I think I bought that line… and if you believe that narrative, regular guys are NOT gonna like you.

So I am still guilty of being a dyed in the wool feminist. thats who i am. Women still like me and are most of my friends. I hate that. but it’s probably too late for me to change. I’m just glad i didnt make more of me.

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where does confidence come from?  Does it just spring spontaneously  from kind treatment by parents?  No.  It comes from a kid’s actual proven ability to successfully, independently navigate the real, unmonitored world, and to compete and belong. This is something I was sorely lacking in for many, many years, and just started to gather in small quantities in my forties….  Other men perceived me, correctly, as “weird”, or “off”, or maybe feminine or weak or overly intellectual.  Probably just plain weird.  What they were probably smelling was lack of confidence, lack of ability to talk to other men in a way they could recognize as self-assured.  The crudity of the language is irrelevant.  You are in for a lot of misery in this life if you expect the world to be or play nice, to be fair or to treat you gently.  Acting in that way does not make it so.   teaching your kid to always “act nice” is absurd advice for navigating reality.  Toughen up, little guy!  I also dispute that this is a “male” problem”.  It takes two to tango.  If women weren’t attracted to dominance, power and aggression, I’m confident you’d see less of it in men.  When romantic heroes in romance novels are softspoken gentle bureaucrats with pale soft arms  who treat people nicely and play fairly according to rules, perhaps you will see a shift in schoolyard behavior.  Until then, grow a pair; jeez louise…..

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[quote=harvey][quote=scaredyclassic][quote=harvey]Interesting, but it doesn’t tell me how much I should pay the masses that slave away in my factories.[/quote]

No but it might inform how to tax,your capital gains.[/quote]

Abe’s quote mentions consideration but not taxation.[/quote]

By consideration do you think he just meant a tip of the hat and a hearty pat on the back for all the sweat?

“Co sideration” in legal terms means something of value.

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Hmmmm. The andrew luck tactic only works if you are super alpha.

Basically his gimmick is, “come at me you little bitch” taken to the next level. No matter how hard you think you’ve hit me, I condescendingly pat you on the head and say essentially good job little buddy.

In the context of the nfl, it would be far less effective and perhaps less inflammatory to curse out the opposition. Certainly lucks alpha/dominant language screws more with the other men’s psyches. But again, this tactic would only work for males at the very apex of the good chain of males. And it is almost certainly not intended to be friendly.

I actually am unqualified to speak about this because I am the clueless male, the irate dad’s kid, in the story of my life. These are just my own useless thoughts.

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[quote=njtosd][quote=ltsdd]Is it true?
Is it kind?
Is it necessary?[/quote]
+1

Who do you want your son to grow up to be? If this isn’t a step in the direction you are hoping for, I’d be concerned. Almost all people who say cruel/unkind things defend themselves by saying they were joking.[/quote]

You should want your son to be able to hang with other men. This is a step in that direction.

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Money grows on trees and capitalists scoop it up to induce laborers to plant more trees?

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[quote=Blogstar]Defense lawyers should have no say in this because they are used to standing up for the bad guy.

Men should not say anything because our society is sick with macho.[/quote]

Touche.

I’d say however our society is no different from any society in that boys long to become men … our society has no clear path, no jnitiation, and so we are not sick from machismo, but our inability to …. ummm…something to do with initiation.

Anyway, in my experience women are the meaner psychos to each other. Guys are relatively kind.

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