[patientrenter]

Allan, yes, Philip K Dick is one of the better sci-fi writers. Actually, I don’t like most sci-fi, but I enjoyed most of his books when I first read them as a teenager, including the Man in the High Castle. I recommend it for all those who take our existing world for granted. When I first read it, I became mentally “high” on the upside-down world he created.

I honestly don’t know how I’d react to his books today. Part of what he did for me is stretch my narrow mind a little. Now that I’m older, and have seen the fall of the Iron Curtain, and the change and rise of China, I don’t know that I’d find his grand gedankenexperiment such a stretch. Or maybe I am too old to imagine along with him. But I definitely recommend him to younger readers who can appreciate fully his imagination for alternative worlds.

[patientrenter]

Allan, yes, Philip K Dick is one of the better sci-fi writers. Actually, I don’t like most sci-fi, but I enjoyed most of his books when I first read them as a teenager, including the Man in the High Castle. I recommend it for all those who take our existing world for granted. When I first read it, I became mentally “high” on the upside-down world he created.

I honestly don’t know how I’d react to his books today. Part of what he did for me is stretch my narrow mind a little. Now that I’m older, and have seen the fall of the Iron Curtain, and the change and rise of China, I don’t know that I’d find his grand gedankenexperiment such a stretch. Or maybe I am too old to imagine along with him. But I definitely recommend him to younger readers who can appreciate fully his imagination for alternative worlds.

[patientrenter]

Allan, yes, Philip K Dick is one of the better sci-fi writers. Actually, I don’t like most sci-fi, but I enjoyed most of his books when I first read them as a teenager, including the Man in the High Castle. I recommend it for all those who take our existing world for granted. When I first read it, I became mentally “high” on the upside-down world he created.

I honestly don’t know how I’d react to his books today. Part of what he did for me is stretch my narrow mind a little. Now that I’m older, and have seen the fall of the Iron Curtain, and the change and rise of China, I don’t know that I’d find his grand gedankenexperiment such a stretch. Or maybe I am too old to imagine along with him. But I definitely recommend him to younger readers who can appreciate fully his imagination for alternative worlds.

[patientrenter]

Allan, yes, Philip K Dick is one of the better sci-fi writers. Actually, I don’t like most sci-fi, but I enjoyed most of his books when I first read them as a teenager, including the Man in the High Castle. I recommend it for all those who take our existing world for granted. When I first read it, I became mentally “high” on the upside-down world he created.

I honestly don’t know how I’d react to his books today. Part of what he did for me is stretch my narrow mind a little. Now that I’m older, and have seen the fall of the Iron Curtain, and the change and rise of China, I don’t know that I’d find his grand gedankenexperiment such a stretch. Or maybe I am too old to imagine along with him. But I definitely recommend him to younger readers who can appreciate fully his imagination for alternative worlds.

[patientrenter]

[quote=pri_dk]
Nobody said that teachers should not have performance standards. In California, it is actually quite difficult to even become a teacher. Even a person of your caliber and level of success would probably need to go back to school for years just to meet the minimum requirements. (BTW: how do you ever find the time to waste on silly internet message boards with all that responsibility?)

You use phrases like “better” results and “improving it” without defining them, essentially avoiding the meat of the issue with vagueness and platitudes. It sounds so decisive, but you haven’t actually said anything.

So what is “better?” How do you know when “it” needs to be “improved?”

So back to the original question: How does one quantitatively measure the performance of a teacher? Should we “just do it,” or perhaps “get ‘er done?”
[/quote]

pri_dk, you are making my point for me. The entire rest of the country could spend all its time debating how difficult it is to apply vigorous performance standards, with real effect, to everyone. But we don’t, we just get on with it. Does that mean we do it perfectly? No. Does it mean that we do it so badly that it’s worse than no performance standards at all? Not even close.

And limiting vigorous performance standards to the entry stages of a job just doesn’t cut it. That’s not how things work for most of us, and there’s a reason – it’s fighting the battle for greater productivity with one hand tied behind your back. It’s hopelessly ineffective and unnecessary.

Why don’t I get into a blow-by-blow debate about each specific technique to measure teachers’ performance? For the same reason you don’t try to prove to a mathematician that you like ice cream, using mathematical formulas. I think we’ve all seen enough to know, as well as we know that we like ice cream, that any system, in any arena, with a decent amount of competition and with real rewards and accountability for the people involved produces better results for consumers (kids, in this case) than systems without those elements.

[patientrenter]

[quote=pri_dk]
Nobody said that teachers should not have performance standards. In California, it is actually quite difficult to even become a teacher. Even a person of your caliber and level of success would probably need to go back to school for years just to meet the minimum requirements. (BTW: how do you ever find the time to waste on silly internet message boards with all that responsibility?)

You use phrases like “better” results and “improving it” without defining them, essentially avoiding the meat of the issue with vagueness and platitudes. It sounds so decisive, but you haven’t actually said anything.

So what is “better?” How do you know when “it” needs to be “improved?”

So back to the original question: How does one quantitatively measure the performance of a teacher? Should we “just do it,” or perhaps “get ‘er done?”
[/quote]

pri_dk, you are making my point for me. The entire rest of the country could spend all its time debating how difficult it is to apply vigorous performance standards, with real effect, to everyone. But we don’t, we just get on with it. Does that mean we do it perfectly? No. Does it mean that we do it so badly that it’s worse than no performance standards at all? Not even close.

And limiting vigorous performance standards to the entry stages of a job just doesn’t cut it. That’s not how things work for most of us, and there’s a reason – it’s fighting the battle for greater productivity with one hand tied behind your back. It’s hopelessly ineffective and unnecessary.

Why don’t I get into a blow-by-blow debate about each specific technique to measure teachers’ performance? For the same reason you don’t try to prove to a mathematician that you like ice cream, using mathematical formulas. I think we’ve all seen enough to know, as well as we know that we like ice cream, that any system, in any arena, with a decent amount of competition and with real rewards and accountability for the people involved produces better results for consumers (kids, in this case) than systems without those elements.

[patientrenter]

[quote=pri_dk]
Nobody said that teachers should not have performance standards. In California, it is actually quite difficult to even become a teacher. Even a person of your caliber and level of success would probably need to go back to school for years just to meet the minimum requirements. (BTW: how do you ever find the time to waste on silly internet message boards with all that responsibility?)

You use phrases like “better” results and “improving it” without defining them, essentially avoiding the meat of the issue with vagueness and platitudes. It sounds so decisive, but you haven’t actually said anything.

So what is “better?” How do you know when “it” needs to be “improved?”

So back to the original question: How does one quantitatively measure the performance of a teacher? Should we “just do it,” or perhaps “get ‘er done?”
[/quote]

pri_dk, you are making my point for me. The entire rest of the country could spend all its time debating how difficult it is to apply vigorous performance standards, with real effect, to everyone. But we don’t, we just get on with it. Does that mean we do it perfectly? No. Does it mean that we do it so badly that it’s worse than no performance standards at all? Not even close.

And limiting vigorous performance standards to the entry stages of a job just doesn’t cut it. That’s not how things work for most of us, and there’s a reason – it’s fighting the battle for greater productivity with one hand tied behind your back. It’s hopelessly ineffective and unnecessary.

Why don’t I get into a blow-by-blow debate about each specific technique to measure teachers’ performance? For the same reason you don’t try to prove to a mathematician that you like ice cream, using mathematical formulas. I think we’ve all seen enough to know, as well as we know that we like ice cream, that any system, in any arena, with a decent amount of competition and with real rewards and accountability for the people involved produces better results for consumers (kids, in this case) than systems without those elements.

[patientrenter]

[quote=pri_dk]
Nobody said that teachers should not have performance standards. In California, it is actually quite difficult to even become a teacher. Even a person of your caliber and level of success would probably need to go back to school for years just to meet the minimum requirements. (BTW: how do you ever find the time to waste on silly internet message boards with all that responsibility?)

You use phrases like “better” results and “improving it” without defining them, essentially avoiding the meat of the issue with vagueness and platitudes. It sounds so decisive, but you haven’t actually said anything.

So what is “better?” How do you know when “it” needs to be “improved?”

So back to the original question: How does one quantitatively measure the performance of a teacher? Should we “just do it,” or perhaps “get ‘er done?”
[/quote]

pri_dk, you are making my point for me. The entire rest of the country could spend all its time debating how difficult it is to apply vigorous performance standards, with real effect, to everyone. But we don’t, we just get on with it. Does that mean we do it perfectly? No. Does it mean that we do it so badly that it’s worse than no performance standards at all? Not even close.

And limiting vigorous performance standards to the entry stages of a job just doesn’t cut it. That’s not how things work for most of us, and there’s a reason – it’s fighting the battle for greater productivity with one hand tied behind your back. It’s hopelessly ineffective and unnecessary.

Why don’t I get into a blow-by-blow debate about each specific technique to measure teachers’ performance? For the same reason you don’t try to prove to a mathematician that you like ice cream, using mathematical formulas. I think we’ve all seen enough to know, as well as we know that we like ice cream, that any system, in any arena, with a decent amount of competition and with real rewards and accountability for the people involved produces better results for consumers (kids, in this case) than systems without those elements.

[patientrenter]

[quote=pri_dk]
Nobody said that teachers should not have performance standards. In California, it is actually quite difficult to even become a teacher. Even a person of your caliber and level of success would probably need to go back to school for years just to meet the minimum requirements. (BTW: how do you ever find the time to waste on silly internet message boards with all that responsibility?)

You use phrases like “better” results and “improving it” without defining them, essentially avoiding the meat of the issue with vagueness and platitudes. It sounds so decisive, but you haven’t actually said anything.

So what is “better?” How do you know when “it” needs to be “improved?”

So back to the original question: How does one quantitatively measure the performance of a teacher? Should we “just do it,” or perhaps “get ‘er done?”
[/quote]

pri_dk, you are making my point for me. The entire rest of the country could spend all its time debating how difficult it is to apply vigorous performance standards, with real effect, to everyone. But we don’t, we just get on with it. Does that mean we do it perfectly? No. Does it mean that we do it so badly that it’s worse than no performance standards at all? Not even close.

And limiting vigorous performance standards to the entry stages of a job just doesn’t cut it. That’s not how things work for most of us, and there’s a reason – it’s fighting the battle for greater productivity with one hand tied behind your back. It’s hopelessly ineffective and unnecessary.

Why don’t I get into a blow-by-blow debate about each specific technique to measure teachers’ performance? For the same reason you don’t try to prove to a mathematician that you like ice cream, using mathematical formulas. I think we’ve all seen enough to know, as well as we know that we like ice cream, that any system, in any arena, with a decent amount of competition and with real rewards and accountability for the people involved produces better results for consumers (kids, in this case) than systems without those elements.

[patientrenter]

nostradamus, I have only ever bought 2 movies for viewing at home – one is Bladerunner.

The truth is that these movies, even one set in the future like Bladerunner, do age. We become used to better and better techniques in special effects, acting, camera work, sound, storywriting… and eventually even our old favorites start to pale a little. But Bladerunner was a great movie, and is still very good.

By the way, the other movie I bought was Life of Brian. I loved it when it first came out, when I was in college. I didn’t see it again until I bought it some time in the last 10 years, and couldn’t believe that the funniest movie I’d ever seen was now flat and a little puerile. I still like a few scenes though, like that one where the (Jewish) Palestinian terrorists get together to discuss what actions to take to protest their oppression at the hands of the (Roman) rulers of Jerusalem, and someone asks “What have the Romans ever done for us?”.

[patientrenter]

nostradamus, I have only ever bought 2 movies for viewing at home – one is Bladerunner.

The truth is that these movies, even one set in the future like Bladerunner, do age. We become used to better and better techniques in special effects, acting, camera work, sound, storywriting… and eventually even our old favorites start to pale a little. But Bladerunner was a great movie, and is still very good.

By the way, the other movie I bought was Life of Brian. I loved it when it first came out, when I was in college. I didn’t see it again until I bought it some time in the last 10 years, and couldn’t believe that the funniest movie I’d ever seen was now flat and a little puerile. I still like a few scenes though, like that one where the (Jewish) Palestinian terrorists get together to discuss what actions to take to protest their oppression at the hands of the (Roman) rulers of Jerusalem, and someone asks “What have the Romans ever done for us?”.

[patientrenter]

nostradamus, I have only ever bought 2 movies for viewing at home – one is Bladerunner.

The truth is that these movies, even one set in the future like Bladerunner, do age. We become used to better and better techniques in special effects, acting, camera work, sound, storywriting… and eventually even our old favorites start to pale a little. But Bladerunner was a great movie, and is still very good.

By the way, the other movie I bought was Life of Brian. I loved it when it first came out, when I was in college. I didn’t see it again until I bought it some time in the last 10 years, and couldn’t believe that the funniest movie I’d ever seen was now flat and a little puerile. I still like a few scenes though, like that one where the (Jewish) Palestinian terrorists get together to discuss what actions to take to protest their oppression at the hands of the (Roman) rulers of Jerusalem, and someone asks “What have the Romans ever done for us?”.

[patientrenter]

nostradamus, I have only ever bought 2 movies for viewing at home – one is Bladerunner.

The truth is that these movies, even one set in the future like Bladerunner, do age. We become used to better and better techniques in special effects, acting, camera work, sound, storywriting… and eventually even our old favorites start to pale a little. But Bladerunner was a great movie, and is still very good.

By the way, the other movie I bought was Life of Brian. I loved it when it first came out, when I was in college. I didn’t see it again until I bought it some time in the last 10 years, and couldn’t believe that the funniest movie I’d ever seen was now flat and a little puerile. I still like a few scenes though, like that one where the (Jewish) Palestinian terrorists get together to discuss what actions to take to protest their oppression at the hands of the (Roman) rulers of Jerusalem, and someone asks “What have the Romans ever done for us?”.

[patientrenter]

nostradamus, I have only ever bought 2 movies for viewing at home – one is Bladerunner.

The truth is that these movies, even one set in the future like Bladerunner, do age. We become used to better and better techniques in special effects, acting, camera work, sound, storywriting… and eventually even our old favorites start to pale a little. But Bladerunner was a great movie, and is still very good.

By the way, the other movie I bought was Life of Brian. I loved it when it first came out, when I was in college. I didn’t see it again until I bought it some time in the last 10 years, and couldn’t believe that the funniest movie I’d ever seen was now flat and a little puerile. I still like a few scenes though, like that one where the (Jewish) Palestinian terrorists get together to discuss what actions to take to protest their oppression at the hands of the (Roman) rulers of Jerusalem, and someone asks “What have the Romans ever done for us?”.

[patientrenter]

[quote=briansd1]Here are some ideas that will never happen…

[/quote]

How many kids do you have, brian?

[Author]

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