[patientrenter]

[quote=peterb]Speculation and investing are the same thing. Man, some people just dont get it. No one can predict the future. [/quote]

peterb, I think sdr was drawing a distinction between people who buy assets for the future income they can produce (for them) without selling the assets, versus people who buy assets for the purpose of selling them to someone else for more than they paid.

I know that assets bought for one reason can end up being sold or kept for the other reason, and some assets may end up producing some income and a nice gain on sale, but I think sdr describes a valid difference. Anyone who buys gold (other than jewelers or others who process it) is a speculator by this definition. It’s harder to find an asset that can only be used for investment by this definition, since virtually any asset that produces income can be sold, and so could be used by speculators.

In any case, I buy stocks almost always for the dividends they produce, and would only buy real property for the net income it produces. Those assets form what I think of as my ‘real’ permanent investment account that I rely on. I have a separate account, about 10% of my net worth, that I use to buy and sell assets based on what I think prices will do in the next few days or few years. I think of that as as my ‘hedge fund’, and I don’t rely on it, and I do consider it purely speculative.

[patientrenter]

[quote=peterb]Speculation and investing are the same thing. Man, some people just dont get it. No one can predict the future. [/quote]

peterb, I think sdr was drawing a distinction between people who buy assets for the future income they can produce (for them) without selling the assets, versus people who buy assets for the purpose of selling them to someone else for more than they paid.

I know that assets bought for one reason can end up being sold or kept for the other reason, and some assets may end up producing some income and a nice gain on sale, but I think sdr describes a valid difference. Anyone who buys gold (other than jewelers or others who process it) is a speculator by this definition. It’s harder to find an asset that can only be used for investment by this definition, since virtually any asset that produces income can be sold, and so could be used by speculators.

In any case, I buy stocks almost always for the dividends they produce, and would only buy real property for the net income it produces. Those assets form what I think of as my ‘real’ permanent investment account that I rely on. I have a separate account, about 10% of my net worth, that I use to buy and sell assets based on what I think prices will do in the next few days or few years. I think of that as as my ‘hedge fund’, and I don’t rely on it, and I do consider it purely speculative.

[patientrenter]

[quote=peterb]Speculation and investing are the same thing. Man, some people just dont get it. No one can predict the future. [/quote]

peterb, I think sdr was drawing a distinction between people who buy assets for the future income they can produce (for them) without selling the assets, versus people who buy assets for the purpose of selling them to someone else for more than they paid.

I know that assets bought for one reason can end up being sold or kept for the other reason, and some assets may end up producing some income and a nice gain on sale, but I think sdr describes a valid difference. Anyone who buys gold (other than jewelers or others who process it) is a speculator by this definition. It’s harder to find an asset that can only be used for investment by this definition, since virtually any asset that produces income can be sold, and so could be used by speculators.

In any case, I buy stocks almost always for the dividends they produce, and would only buy real property for the net income it produces. Those assets form what I think of as my ‘real’ permanent investment account that I rely on. I have a separate account, about 10% of my net worth, that I use to buy and sell assets based on what I think prices will do in the next few days or few years. I think of that as as my ‘hedge fund’, and I don’t rely on it, and I do consider it purely speculative.

[patientrenter]

[quote=peterb]Speculation and investing are the same thing. Man, some people just dont get it. No one can predict the future. [/quote]

peterb, I think sdr was drawing a distinction between people who buy assets for the future income they can produce (for them) without selling the assets, versus people who buy assets for the purpose of selling them to someone else for more than they paid.

I know that assets bought for one reason can end up being sold or kept for the other reason, and some assets may end up producing some income and a nice gain on sale, but I think sdr describes a valid difference. Anyone who buys gold (other than jewelers or others who process it) is a speculator by this definition. It’s harder to find an asset that can only be used for investment by this definition, since virtually any asset that produces income can be sold, and so could be used by speculators.

In any case, I buy stocks almost always for the dividends they produce, and would only buy real property for the net income it produces. Those assets form what I think of as my ‘real’ permanent investment account that I rely on. I have a separate account, about 10% of my net worth, that I use to buy and sell assets based on what I think prices will do in the next few days or few years. I think of that as as my ‘hedge fund’, and I don’t rely on it, and I do consider it purely speculative.

[patientrenter]

When I was growing up, we had rocks for breakfast, and we were thankful, and perfectly healthy for it.

Not quite, but I grew up going to average public schools (managed by religious orders) with very large class sizes and minimal special services or facilities, and a decent but mixed group of teachers. I avoided PE so successfully I don’t think I went more than a few times in many years, and get out of breath from running since I was a teenager.

I support myself, feed myself, and do my part (through taxes) to enable that for quite a few other people too. I just don’t see why we need to have perfect and expensive schools before we can deliver productive members of society. But we do need a no-nonsense intolerant attitude about poor educational performance and inefficiency. And if you like running around a track, SDR, Allan, UCGal, etc. then go for it! I’ll be stirring my drink.

[patientrenter]

When I was growing up, we had rocks for breakfast, and we were thankful, and perfectly healthy for it.

Not quite, but I grew up going to average public schools (managed by religious orders) with very large class sizes and minimal special services or facilities, and a decent but mixed group of teachers. I avoided PE so successfully I don’t think I went more than a few times in many years, and get out of breath from running since I was a teenager.

I support myself, feed myself, and do my part (through taxes) to enable that for quite a few other people too. I just don’t see why we need to have perfect and expensive schools before we can deliver productive members of society. But we do need a no-nonsense intolerant attitude about poor educational performance and inefficiency. And if you like running around a track, SDR, Allan, UCGal, etc. then go for it! I’ll be stirring my drink.

[patientrenter]

When I was growing up, we had rocks for breakfast, and we were thankful, and perfectly healthy for it.

Not quite, but I grew up going to average public schools (managed by religious orders) with very large class sizes and minimal special services or facilities, and a decent but mixed group of teachers. I avoided PE so successfully I don’t think I went more than a few times in many years, and get out of breath from running since I was a teenager.

I support myself, feed myself, and do my part (through taxes) to enable that for quite a few other people too. I just don’t see why we need to have perfect and expensive schools before we can deliver productive members of society. But we do need a no-nonsense intolerant attitude about poor educational performance and inefficiency. And if you like running around a track, SDR, Allan, UCGal, etc. then go for it! I’ll be stirring my drink.

[patientrenter]

When I was growing up, we had rocks for breakfast, and we were thankful, and perfectly healthy for it.

Not quite, but I grew up going to average public schools (managed by religious orders) with very large class sizes and minimal special services or facilities, and a decent but mixed group of teachers. I avoided PE so successfully I don’t think I went more than a few times in many years, and get out of breath from running since I was a teenager.

I support myself, feed myself, and do my part (through taxes) to enable that for quite a few other people too. I just don’t see why we need to have perfect and expensive schools before we can deliver productive members of society. But we do need a no-nonsense intolerant attitude about poor educational performance and inefficiency. And if you like running around a track, SDR, Allan, UCGal, etc. then go for it! I’ll be stirring my drink.

[patientrenter]

When I was growing up, we had rocks for breakfast, and we were thankful, and perfectly healthy for it.

Not quite, but I grew up going to average public schools (managed by religious orders) with very large class sizes and minimal special services or facilities, and a decent but mixed group of teachers. I avoided PE so successfully I don’t think I went more than a few times in many years, and get out of breath from running since I was a teenager.

I support myself, feed myself, and do my part (through taxes) to enable that for quite a few other people too. I just don’t see why we need to have perfect and expensive schools before we can deliver productive members of society. But we do need a no-nonsense intolerant attitude about poor educational performance and inefficiency. And if you like running around a track, SDR, Allan, UCGal, etc. then go for it! I’ll be stirring my drink.

[patientrenter]

[quote=partypup]
But hey, PatientRenter says Bernanke should be able to put a stop to these interest rate hikes – so we should be just fine. I’ll go back to bed now and dream of lollipops and unicorns…

http://www.cnbc.com/id/30968861
[/quote]

So partypup, put some facts with those taunts. Can you describe the limit that you think Bernanke will hit that will stop him from buying more Treasuries?

[patientrenter]

[quote=partypup]
But hey, PatientRenter says Bernanke should be able to put a stop to these interest rate hikes – so we should be just fine. I’ll go back to bed now and dream of lollipops and unicorns…

http://www.cnbc.com/id/30968861
[/quote]

So partypup, put some facts with those taunts. Can you describe the limit that you think Bernanke will hit that will stop him from buying more Treasuries?

[patientrenter]

[quote=partypup]
But hey, PatientRenter says Bernanke should be able to put a stop to these interest rate hikes – so we should be just fine. I’ll go back to bed now and dream of lollipops and unicorns…

http://www.cnbc.com/id/30968861
[/quote]

So partypup, put some facts with those taunts. Can you describe the limit that you think Bernanke will hit that will stop him from buying more Treasuries?

[patientrenter]

[quote=partypup]
But hey, PatientRenter says Bernanke should be able to put a stop to these interest rate hikes – so we should be just fine. I’ll go back to bed now and dream of lollipops and unicorns…

http://www.cnbc.com/id/30968861
[/quote]

So partypup, put some facts with those taunts. Can you describe the limit that you think Bernanke will hit that will stop him from buying more Treasuries?

[patientrenter]

[quote=partypup]
But hey, PatientRenter says Bernanke should be able to put a stop to these interest rate hikes – so we should be just fine. I’ll go back to bed now and dream of lollipops and unicorns…

http://www.cnbc.com/id/30968861
[/quote]

So partypup, put some facts with those taunts. Can you describe the limit that you think Bernanke will hit that will stop him from buying more Treasuries?

[patientrenter]

Allan, yes, Philip K Dick is one of the better sci-fi writers. Actually, I don’t like most sci-fi, but I enjoyed most of his books when I first read them as a teenager, including the Man in the High Castle. I recommend it for all those who take our existing world for granted. When I first read it, I became mentally “high” on the upside-down world he created.

I honestly don’t know how I’d react to his books today. Part of what he did for me is stretch my narrow mind a little. Now that I’m older, and have seen the fall of the Iron Curtain, and the change and rise of China, I don’t know that I’d find his grand gedankenexperiment such a stretch. Or maybe I am too old to imagine along with him. But I definitely recommend him to younger readers who can appreciate fully his imagination for alternative worlds.

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