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ocrenter
Participant[quote=AN]That’s the same thing, right? Either you sell it back to the grid or have enough to cover your peak usage, either way, you’re storing and purchasing at $0.17 and use/sell at $0.48. It would take ~23MWh to break even, assuming it cost about $7k installed of the 10kWh powerwall unit.[/quote]
Oh yeah, of course. It would be similar selling back or using the credit.
Powerwall install cost is crazy. $4k just for install? And of course solar city will have monopoly on the install. That’s the Tesla way!
Participant[quote=AN]I wonder if the number works out, if you have solar w/ TOU and you get a Tesla Powerwall or something like it. The logic is that, solar will generate power at $0.48/kWh during the summer. We can use that power at night at $0.17/kWh. At the same time, we can charge the Powerwall at $0.17/kWh at night for usage during the day at $0.48/kWh. I need to run the number to see if it make sense (all depends on how much the powerwall or other battery pack cost), but briefly thinking about it, it seems to make sense.[/quote]
Even better, what if the Powerwall can return electricity back to the grid during the peak hours. you can store at $0.17/kwh and sell it back at $0.48/kwh!!! You’ll be able to make back the ROI for the Powerwall in no time!
ParticipantParticipant[quote=joec][quote=AN]It’s crazy how much the Leaf fall in value. You can pick up a Certified pre-owned 2013 Leaf SL with <20k miles for ~$16k. New, they're going for around $30k after tax rebate. 1/2 off in 2 years. I'm seriously thinking of picking up one and switch over to TOU. If I go with a 2012 model, I can pick one with only 26k miles for $10k.[/quote]
Is the low price due to the older battery? I assume after all these charge/recharge cycles, a new battery will easily run you 8-10k. I think we all had this discussion here before actually...[/quote]
New LEAFs at MSRP are $29-$35k. Via TrueCar.com, looks like they are going for $27-33k. This is before the $10k fed/CA rebate. So people are getting them new at $17k to $23k.
The super low prices are especially true with the 2011-12 models. I looked it up and it looks like both years had batteries that were air-cooled.
Battery degradation is actually very minimal once manufacturers figured out they needed to liquid cool the batteries, not just air-cool. Plus they all prevent full 100% charge or complete drainage, which significantly preserve battery life. For example the battery size for the LEAF is 24 kWh, but only 22 kWh is usable.
As for battery price, replacement battery pack for the LEAF is $5500.
Participant[quote=AN][quote=ocrenter][quote=AN]Unfortunately, my system is not big enough to bank most of the time.[/quote]
I didn’t think mine would be big enough to bank either, until I see the benefit of TOU summer rates first hand.[/quote]
I will have to take a look to see how much i’m using during the day to see if I can even bank. My system is small because of limited roof space and house direction. It’s enough to keep me out of Tier 3-4 during the winter and 2-4 during the summer. But I can only go negative a month during spring and fall.Update: Just went through last year’s data and did a rough price comparison between TOU-2 vs standard net metering that I’m on right now and it would save me about $130/year ($630 vs $760). That might be enough of a saving for me to buy a used Leaf and drive for free. Thanks for pointing me to TOU ocrenter.[/quote]
Haha, no kidding, right?
Try to avoid the 2011 model as the battery is air cooled and therefore degrades faster. Not sure about the 2012 model. Definitely 2013 and newer they are all liquid cooled.
Participant[quote=AN]Unfortunately, my system is not big enough to bank most of the time.[/quote]
I didn’t think mine would be big enough to bank either, until I see the benefit of TOU summer rates first hand.
Participant[quote=AN]thanks ocr. I didn’t know they pay you retail prices for the production. I’m going to look at my usage now to see if it’s worth it to switch over to TOU from my regular Tiered net metering. Right now, I’m only banking kWh produced, not $.[/quote]
Well, this is all just credit right now. I’m banking the excess production in the summer with the idea that during wintertime I’ll probably use up the credits.
Maybe moneymaker can clarify, did SDGE actually cut you a check for the -$33?
Participant[quote=svelte][quote=ocrenter]
Because of the TOU (time of use) price structure, the peak solar production time also happen to be the time of highest credit generation at $.48/kWh. Meanwhile, we were able to move half of our usage to the super off peak hours at $.17/kWh. Essentially 1 kWh generated in the afternoon can be traded for 3 kWh of use after midnight.
[/quote]Wow I had no idea they had a program that gave anywhere near that much $$ for electricity you produce.
For anyone else who may have been in the dark like me, here is what SDGE will pay in a program available to EV owners:
[img_assist|nid=20926|title=TOU for EV Owners|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=639|height=640][/quote]
Yeah, no kidding. I was looking at about $500 per year on fuel cost with the EV. The TOU structure essentially makes that free. I guess the payback is so high thanks to people like my neighbor who likes to keep indoor temp at 65 at all time.
Participant[quote=moneymaker][quote=moneymaker]6.2KW system in May 2014
$25K with $6.2K of that for labor
$7600 federal tax credit,already used it all
generates on average $300/mo. in electricity if in tier 3 or 4
payback is like 9-10 years
expect yearly bill to be roughly what used to be 1 month[/quote]Ok got the yearly bill last month and it was very low-$33 for a full year of electricity.[/quote]
That’s great! looks like the ROI should be improving as well.
Participant[quote=svelte][quote=ocrenter]Just got through my first summer month under the SDGE TOU tariff structure along with solar production. ($.48/kWh peak, $.22/kWh off peak, $.17/kWh super off peak)
Total use of 1010 kWh.
Total production of 780 kWh.
530 kWh of the use coming from super off peak (300 kWh for 1300 miles on the EV, essentially fuel cost of $4 for 100 miles if not offset by peak hour production)..
Following TOU adjustments, at end of month: $60 creditSolar with TOU plus EV is just absolutely amazing.[/quote]
There are some things in this post I’m not quite grasping.
How did you use 220 kwh more than you produced yet end up with a $60 credit?
Thanks[/quote]
Because of the TOU (time of use) price structure, the peak solar production time also happen to be the time of highest credit generation at $.48/kWh. Meanwhile, we were able to move half of our usage to the super off peak hours at $.17/kWh. Essentially 1 kWh generated in the afternoon can be traded for 3 kWh of use after midnight.
For example, on May 21 I had a horrible day of solar production. After subtracting daytime usage, I had a net peak hour generation of 8 kWh. At $.48 per kWh, that was $3.84 of credit. Meanwhile, the day before I drove almost 80 miles so my total off peak usage that day was 24 kWh. At $.17/kWh, my cost was $4.08. So on this day of poor production and excess driving, I was only on the hook for $.24 for the day.
ParticipantJust got through my first summer month under the SDGE TOU tariff structure along with solar production. ($.48/kWh peak, $.22/kWh off peak, $.17/kWh super off peak)
Total use of 1010 kWh.
Total production of 780 kWh.
530 kWh of the use coming from super off peak (300 kWh for 1300 miles on the EV, essentially fuel cost of $4 for 100 miles if not offset by peak hour production)..
Following TOU adjustments, at end of month: $60 creditSolar with TOU plus EV is just absolutely amazing.
Participant[quote=moneymaker]but sounds to me like someone in “the circle” is in the window business.[/quote]
LOL!
Flu, that’s what you should be looking into. There’s got to be a connection here somewhere.
Participant[quote=flu]Qualcomm might be a larger employer but it isn’t the only one, and won’t drastically affect home prices by itself.
From observation, homebuyer pool in some of the areas I watch include (in no particular order)
1. Foreign buyers
2. Retirees
3. Lawyers
4. Doctors
5. Dentists
6. Biotech workers
7. Genetic sequencing companies
8. Small/mid business owners
9. Intuit workers (52 week high)
10. Other engineers in other companies (many)The days of qualcomm stock options/RSU’s have been numbered. New employees do not get any sizeable grants worth mentioning. Most of the large grants are people years ago. Qualcomm is in the mist of cost cutting. Examples include (overheard from colleagues)
1) A new monthly 401k maintanance fee
2) A higher deductible health insurance with an HSA account component
3) Elimination the most benefits of the executive health plan for folks Senior Staff Engineer or higher, except for dental and vision.
4) Employee pay of some of the fringe benefits off hours.
5) Compensation limits in QCT.
6) Elimination of non-core groups (IT, support software, etc)So far, even in the mist of such things going on, you don’t see SD house prices drastically affected by this, right? QC stock also have corrected from the high 80ies to the low 70ies. That doesn’t appear to have dampened home purchases in the county either.
So that seems to suggest that home buyers in SD are diverse than one might think.[/quote]
Agree about the well-to-do retirees that just decide to pick SD. Met someone that literally lived all over the country throughout his career and picked SD the moment he retired.
ParticipantThis is a great video on approach to back pain:
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