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- This topic has 16 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 8 years ago by njtosd.
May 30, 2015 at 6:00 AM #21556May 30, 2015 at 6:26 AM #786813
…..and here was the brief email exchange…..
I just received a notice titled “Two Year Window and Sliding Glass Door Replacement Program”…
I just want you to clarify that this program is “optional” and only necessary if the existing windows and sliding glass are not defective and have been properly maintained.
I have already contacted my inspectors when I purchased my unit 1 year ago, and all the inspectors indicated that my windows and sliding glass door are all functionally sound and properly maintained and do not need to be replaced.
According to Article VI, Section 1, I am only responsible for “maintenance and repair”, and that should be my discretion as to whether to repair any issues or replace. I just want to be clear about this. Because if this is NOT the case and this letter is implying replacement is mandatory, this is unacceptable and I will seek legal representation.
It’s absurd that this HOA and property management team is proposing this unnecessary expense throughout this year. This one tops all of it. If there is just cause to suggest that any owner’s window is not providing proper sealing, I would like to see the inspection report of your hired professional that proves that is the case.
Please provide your Unit Address.
From [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Can you just answer my question: is XXXXX requiring all homeowners to replace their windows/sliding doors or is this just a voluntary program?
There currently is about 4 other condo owners in this community that would also like to know that I am proxying this question for, possibly an additional 6 other condo owners once they respond to my email. Together, we would like you to clarify on the letter that was sent to us by the HOA and XXX informing us of a 2 year replacement window “policy”. I have not seen this policy, and if you have a copy of it, please forward it to me as soon as possible. As a homeowner in this community, I am entitled to see this policy.
In the letter we received, it was worded to suggest that window replacement was mandatory. However, according to the CCR’s, the rules only specifies “proper maintenance”. It does not appear that the HOA or XXXXX has established which windows from which homeowner(s) are out of compliance nor have I received any notices from XXXXXX informing me what the problems are that need attention.
Also, a big red flag for this window replacement policy described in this letter was that the letter suggested windows needed to be replaced because there are close to 30 years old and many of the seals have broken and moisture has become trapped in between the window panes and fogged in between the window panes. This is IMPOSSIBLE for many of us owners, because the original windows are SINGLE pane windows, NOT dual pane windows, so there isn’t 2 layers of glass where moisture can be trapped between. It is also out of the current CCR’s rules to dictate that existing homeowners must upgrade from single to dual pane for energy efficiency. The HOA does NOT pay for the energy bills…We, the owners, do. And single pane versus dual pane does not affect the structural integrity of the building.
I do not understand why recently the HOA and XXXXX has been increasingly asking homeowners to pay for this unnecessary, and unjustified “upgrade”. This $4600 window replacement policy, if it is mandatory, will cause severe issues among many of homeowners. 10 homeowners will incur a $46,000 cost total, and we would like to know why if the windows are not defective.
I own other rental properties locally, many in older conditions that this development, and this community is the first time I ever heard of something absurd like this.
So, for the purpose of clarity among potentially 10 of us in this community, can you please clarify if this “window replacement policy” is mandatory or voluntary….So we can decide if we need to do moving forward….
I believe you own Unit XXXX. To answer your question, this is a voluntary program.
Thank you for answering our question.
In the future, it would be great if such notices sent to homeowners would clearly state if things are voluntary or mandatory.
I think most homeowners, including me, are not opposed to necessary replacement or repairs. After all, we have a vested interest in protecting our investments too in making sure they are performing well. And we do appreciate the effort you and the HOA made getting estimates for homeowners that might be interested in upgrades.
At the same time, I think the HOA and XXXX need to be sensitive to controlling costs on behalf of the homeowners in this community, We cannot be financially burdened with unnecessary upgrades. There may be a point later that I consider such upgrades. However, I would appreciate that as long as my properties are not causing damage to common area and I am not violating the CCR’s, that I have discretion as to when such upgrades are made.
Thank you, and have a great weekend.
-XXXXXMay 30, 2015 at 7:07 AM #786814moneymakerParticipant
Could not really read the letter in the picture but sounds to me like someone in “the circle” is in the window business.May 30, 2015 at 7:26 AM #786815ocrenterParticipant
[quote=moneymaker]but sounds to me like someone in “the circle” is in the window business.[/quote]
Flu, that’s what you should be looking into. There’s got to be a connection here somewhere.May 30, 2015 at 8:02 AM #786816no_such_realityParticipant
I’d bet on one of two scenarios
1 relative of board in window biz
2 board getting theirs and/or more for free near free
2 is more likely and sadly common.
Based on their initial response suggest you get your lawyer ready. Btw your first email indicated you want to fights. The board on baksheesh will consider you a threat. ( hey this is that little corruption that helps the little guy right?).
Is the bronze finish wore off your windows? Your out of community look compliance and must fix prepare for letter. Every other little snit can follow with a letter and subsequent fine too.May 30, 2015 at 8:38 AM #786818
I think I’m going to try to campaign that rental community, and I think I’m going to try to unseat someone on the board. There’s at least one other individual that wants to run for a board seat next election too. So we might do this, just to be a pain in the ass. Because, although an HOA can be a pain in the ass, so can I.
I think if there really are more owners that work as one big group, it’s more of a bigger threat. $4600 is the cost of replacing the window. If 20 homeowners are all on the same page that $92,000.
The problem with suing the HOA is that if they lose, it ends up coming back to the homeowner…That’s why I think it’s just better to try to unseat the incumbents on the board, and once on the board, figure out what really happened.
The biggest challenge is just trying to reach out to the other owners. This community is less than 50% owner occupied, many of the owners probably don’t even think much about what the HOA is doing and just cuts the check when they tell them too. So my challenge is just finding out how to reach more of the owners in the community.
That said, after I reach out to those owners and tell them about this $4600 “optional” replacement program, I’m sure they would just be as livid as I was, and probably vote out the incumbents next time. I sure will.
I guess worst comes to worst, I can sell this unit next year too for a decent gain…May 30, 2015 at 8:46 AM #786819HobieParticipant
4. Management has a friend in the window biz. Getting kickback or own windows free. Darn near impossible to prove. Be interesting to find out who started the whole window replacement process. 3 quotes for the recommended vendor? Fishy.
Your response letters are too nice and rational, flu. These management types thrive on the power and I feel a lawyer type response letter shuts them down faster. Aesthetics are a touch thing to describe in a violation. ie. fading brown color.
I also like distributing their response to other owners stating that this is voluntary.
Good on you for wanting to get on the board. You will be amazed and frustrated with the incompetence of many of these board members.
“Follow the money” You’ll be pissed.
Be ready for the common excuse for everything: “Preserve resale values”. Short of having cars on blocks in the front yard, it’s the comps that matter with respect to current prices.
Go flu, go!!!!May 30, 2015 at 8:51 AM #786820ltsdddParticipant
go to the next HOA meeting and call them out on how they:
1. determined the windows need to be replaced
2. got the idea the windows need to be replaced every 2 year
3. justify spending YOUR money sending out advertisement for the window replacement companyMay 30, 2015 at 10:18 AM #786821HobieParticipant
” Thank you for coming to the meeting. Any owner input?
Thank you for your questions….We are all just volunteers here trying to do the right thing to preserve our property values. We were advised by management that this was the best course of action and we all agreed. After all this is why we pay for management service. $4600 seems reasonable to prevent decline of values and prevent future costs of repairing leaking window damage. And it is voluntary participation. What is your problem? Also, you are the only one objecting to this matter. Hmm. Next agenda item.”
Got to get a majority of normal on the board. Easier said than done.May 30, 2015 at 10:46 AM #786822no_such_realityParticipant
I agree with Hobie. The issue can also be the management company supporting and counciling the board. There are really no requirements on them doing fair dealings unless the board enforces it which many don’t and frequently they’re lined with a pocket full of companies all giving essentially kick backs to be one of the three vendors submitting the deals.
So you have a management company providing three vendors all of which are enriching the management company representative. So you get to deal with three carefully selected vendors bassed on their relationship with the management company.
Don’t forget how petty the board members may become if you start threatening their little ego trip and cash cow.
And remember dealing with this kind of kick back petty corruption is for your benefit. 😉May 30, 2015 at 11:22 AM #786823FlyerInHiGuest
It happens all the time.
In Vegas, a former high level Republican official was convicted of conspiring to gain control of HOA boards, steering business to contractors and receiving kickbacks.
http://m.reviewjournal.com/news/las-vegas/former-republican-official-gets-prison-hoa-fraud-caseMay 30, 2015 at 11:48 AM #786824FlyerInHiGuest
Btw, the retrofit type windows are very easy to install. You can do it yourself, especially if you’re handy and can work on cars. Have not prices lately, but I think under $1000.
You can buy at Home Depot and do it. When caulking, just apply masking tape along the edges so the seams look nice and even.May 30, 2015 at 12:08 PM #786825
Thanks for all for the feedback so far. I guess it was sort of a mixed blessing last week when one of the seals on a double pane windows on my primary home blew out. Because of that window, I have been doing a lot of research on windows. And now I know a lot more about windows 🙂
Most window issues can be repaired, at a fraction of the cost of replacing the entire window. So this letter really rubbed me the wrong way.
If you’re going to make up a lie, at least make it believable.
I think I’m going to go to my community today door to door and explain to people what happened. Although most people are probably tenants, recently the HOA rubbed all the tenants the wrong way too…It gets hot in the summertime, and most of the tenants had previously put up those removable outdoor shades. It had been fine for a long time. But recently, the HOA have been sending out notices to owners that those removable shades are not allowed, and cited some CCR rule… The CCR rule specifically states that no owner can attach anything to the exterior walls.. But it doesn’t say anything that explicitly bans outdoor shades that have their own standing frame. Anyway, it ruffled a lot of tenants the wrong way….So I suspect, they have a vested interest in making this HOA change.
I find this actually quite comical. The other condos I have have pretty decent HOAs. I’m surprised this one is acting the way it is.May 31, 2015 at 11:32 AM #786866jpinpbParticipant
I read the letter and exchange, but have not read through all the posts. IMO, if you have to live in a community w/HOAs, best to find time to be on the board. Even that won’t guarantee things will go your way, but better shot at it. Best of luck, flu.May 31, 2015 at 6:45 PM #786882joecParticipant
This sounds like a good way to get on the board or at least plan to run in it later. With all the public information out there as well, maybe it won’t be too hard to see which vendor they plan to use, then look up all the people on the board with the same last names, etc…
Since the “owner” is the one who has to pay for the upgrade, I’d guess most people would prefer to do something else with their money than upgrade a perfectly working window.
HOAs in TH and Condos suck. I suppose this is the downside of having “some” money to own a rental even.
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