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[quote=temeculaguy]

I am but an observer, but I find bias distorts perception. Here’s my latest prediction and the one thing I am most worried about and that is the California tax on tobacco. Dumbest thing ever, we should repeal all taxes, subsidize tobacco and allow it indoors and in all public places and offices.
we should come within inches of mandating it.

This might sound crazy but all these nanny state laws are going to drive up costs for social security, medicare and other retirement expenses that workers subsidize. There’s no argument that they work, but the costs of people living longer are going to be our greatest challenges in the future. I shouldn’t say this as a man in striking distance of his 50th birthday but the system benefits from shorter lifespans. Youth is finite, the amount of years the young are a drain on the economy is fairly constant. Death keeps moving further out to the point that working life is nearing parity with retirement life. That is going to be a problem. Mark my words, you know I’ll bump and quote this prediction in 20 years.[/quote]

Not crazy at all. Phillip Morris actually lobbied against a proposed cigarette tax in the Czech Republic using the same argument.

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http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/us-politics/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-boxer-files-longshot-bill-to-scrap-the-1479234745-htmlstory.html

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[quote=bearishgurl]Nearly 5M votes remain to be counted in CA PLUS 595,000 in SD County. It is possible that it is taking so long to count them …. especially in SD County because these are all signed mail ballots of voters purporting to be citizens and residents who may not actually be. See:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/there-are-almost-5-million-uncounted-us-election-votes-california-1591158?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rss&utm_content=/rss/yahoous/news&yptr=yahoo

Even though my precinct (and the surrounding similarly-situated ones in 91910 and 91902 that I checked) appear to have 1/3 R, 1/3 D and 1/3 I voter registrants (give or take 5 points), the precincts in LA County and the populous bay area counties are overwhelmingly Democrat. Regardless of what shenanigans are discovered among CA’s mail-in and “provisional” ballots (a big RED FLAG) in the precincts around here, I do believe HRC has taken the Golden State.

As far as I know, CA’s most populous counties scrubbed their decedent voter rolls in September of this year so this shouldn’t be too much of a problem.[/quote]

What you are saying here is someone launched a sophisticated wide spread voter fraud program in a state where the vote is only worth 1/3 compared to small Great Plains states. In a state where you said yourself millions of votes are moot due to the electoral college.

Of course you also stated in an earlier post that Tyson Foods got workers from a developed country at the forefront of IT and tech with a higher % of college graduate workforce than the US, flew them and their families to Arkansas and got them to process chicken.

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[quote=givdrvr]Electoral College workaround already underway. Eliminating the Electoral College does not even require a constitutional amendment. An effort known as The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact is an agreement among numerous U.S. states and the District of Columbia to award all their respective electoral votes to whichever presidential candidate wins the overall popular vote in those states. Once states totaling 270 electoral votes join the compact–which only requires passing state laws– then the next presidential election will be determined the the popular vote, not the Electoral College.

As of November 9, 2016, ten states and the District of Columbia have signed the compact, totaling 165 electoral votes. So, we are already over 60% of the way there. Pending in PA and WI for another 36 EC votes if adopted by those states.[/quote]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/9/1594792/-The-surprisingly-realistic-path-to-eliminating-the-Electoral-College-by-2020

problem is the states that are typically on the wrong end of the disenfranchisement already signed. The states that relish their out sized role in the limelight would sign this stuff over their dead bodies. and the states that are advantaged by the present system that gave them two presidents who lost the popular vote are ecstatic about the electoral college.

that is why I said what I said at the beginning. forcing change requires teeth. and the teeth is the threat of secession and breaking up the union until we get equal representation.

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[quote=Hobie][quote]I would argue that a typical silicon valley engineer would be smarter than an oil drill worker in North Dakota.[/quote]

Seriously? The dripping arrogance and elitism of this post makes me ill.

By the way, there is no such thing as an ‘oil drill’.

Another positive vote with the electoral college system as the founding fathers designed and how njtosd correctly expanded upon up thread.

I am humbled by the brilliance of the depth and foresight of our founding fathers.[/quote]

Wait, the founding fathers wanted to grant the uneducated more power? You do realize only property owners were allowed to vote, and chances are non property owners were not educated.

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[quote=bearishgurl]The same could be said for the (mainly Taiwanese) Tyson Foods employees in rural AR. Even though most of these workers are “legal” and AR has warmer weather than CO, these workers still need a LOT of local aid for their families to survive.

Immigrant workers have a profound (financial) effect on rural America.[/quote]

Taiwanese? Are you sure about that? Maybe you were referring to Thai workers?

You do realize Austria is not Australia…

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[quote=bearishgurl][quote=FlyerInHi][quote=Hobie][quote]I would argue that a typical silicon valley engineer would be smarter than an oil drill worker in North Dakota.[/quote]

Seriously? The dripping arrogance and elitism of this post makes me ill.

By the way, there is no such thing as an ‘oil drill’.
[/quote]

Objectively the guy with the higher academic credentials is smarter. Nothing to feel ill about. That’s just the way we define things. Maybe unfair or not that humane but we like objective measures.[/quote]That doesn’t mean he/she is superior and deserves more rights than someone working in the oil fields.

BTW, those young oilfield workers make enough cash to be set for life in about 7-8 years (if they work FT and will travel at whim wherever they are needed). They can save almost their entire paycheck because the contractors they work for put them up at local hotels or company-owned mobile homes and give them a per-diem for meals. And they aren’t typically stationed close to cities where they can easily spend loads of money. Most of them get one sit-down restaurant meal and catch a movie in a small town each week and then it’s back to work. It’s a GREAT way for a non-college-educated male (need to be very strong) to get way ahead in life at a young age. Especially one who can’t afford to finish college without taking out loans.[/quote]

But no one is proposing more rights for more educated Californians. We just want our vote to carry the same weight.

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[quote=flu]CalExit is a non-start, don’t even bother.

First of all, CA as a state is not as “blue” as people make it to be. Yes, it’s typically deep blue near large metro areas, but if you head inland and/or remote areas, it’s pretty red.

https://www.google.com/search?q=california+electoral+map&oq=california+electoral+map

Second of all, as large CA’s economy is, a lot of the businesses in CA enjoys some of the benefits from federal government. Pretty much most of the green energy based companies are all subsidized with federal grants, and a lot of a research and development comes from federal grants.

Then there’s the issue of defense. As a standalone “nation”, we will not have the protection of a standing military, army, navy, air force, or the threat of a nuke weapon. If folks want to entertain the crazy idea of CA being separate nation, then they need to entertain the idea that CA needs a standing military. And that’s just one of many other things each state enjoys as benefit belonging to this country.[/quote]

the stronger the voice of secession, the more likely that the calls for electoral college reform and perhaps senate representation reform will be taken more seriously.

as electoral college and senate representation reforms or perhaps breakup of CA all take amendment to the constitution, ratification by the smaller states with disproportional representation would be a nonstarter. if CA shows it is serious about leaving the union, that would force the reform.

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[quote=AN]When Brexit happen, it took the whole world market down and Britain still hasn’t recovered. Just look at where the pound is today. This is a country that’s leaving a union. They already have all of the infrastructure in place to be an autonomous country. CA doesn’t have that and would have to spend a lot of $ to get that. What would happen to the tech economy when the world goes into recession because of it? At the same time, they have to spend a lot of $ to create the infrastructure to be its own country. I don’t see most of the tech company would be around long enough to see CA be its own country. Would CA economy still be as big as it is with the tech industry the size it is today? Coming back from it won’t be easy IMHO.[/quote]

secession is not going to happen. we just need a strong secessionist voice to be the teeth to force change to the electoral college.

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[quote=njtosd]

People also forget that the founding fathers did not want it to simply be one great big country. They wanted the power to be decentralized. The states were considered much more independent, separate and significant. So the electoral votes were not supposed to represent a certain number of people – they were (in part) supposed to represent the significance of statehood.. By the way, you never saw the DNC lift a finger after Gore lost in spite of having the popular vote. The pols like it this way.

And it still bugs me when Americans talk about our right to a “jury of ones peers” (Magna Carta ensuring that nobles were tried by nobles).[/quote]

I think the first time around everyone were just focused on the “hanging chads”. Now that this has happened for the second time in less than 2 decades, they’ll need to take this more seriously.

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[quote=flyer]Here’s what some are proposing:

http://fusion.net/story/368445/shervin-california-secession/

Might sound like a great idea until tech and other bubble industries burst again, and they are all out on the street, leaving the rest of us holding their bag. No thanks.[/quote]

we should support these movements just to make the rest of the country recognize our disenfranchisement. I agree with flu, independence will be a lose-lose for CA and the US. But a call for a constitutional amendment without any teeth (threat of secession) will just be brushed aside.

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[quote=scaredyclassic]

we dont want equal voting power. we need to distribute more votes to smarter people, some argue.[/quote]

I would argue that a typical silicon valley engineer would be smarter than an oil drill worker in North Dakota. In fact, overwhelmingly the big cities draw in far more talent and educated than other parts of the country.

yet when it comes to representation, we decides the rural working class should have a greater voice, in fact more than 3 times our voice.

rather than a system that favors less educated, I just want equal representation.

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[quote=AN]Can we split up CA into two first before cessation?[/quote]

splitting the state at least gives us twice the senators for representation. if we have N.Cal and S.Cal, the democrats would have the senate.

question is which is harder, breaking up the state or getting rid of the electoral college.

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[quote=flu]I might get deported but at least I will be much richer, lol.[/quote]

Haha, you and I both.

Travel outside of the west coast and northeast may not be advisable for our kind for a while.

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[quote=flu]I didn’t say it was completely alt-right thing exclusively. It happens out of the alt-left.. It happens mainly out of the alt-anything….

Anyway, that’s fine. Looks like Trump is going to win anyway. And Congress is also going to maintain GOP control. So…. staying out of the market was a good thing.
We get a lopsided government again…[/quote]

Can we secede from the Union…..?

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