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[quote=CA Renter]
BTW, have any of your taxes gone up in order to fund public employees’ retirement plans? I haven’t seen any increases in our household. What HAS happened is that public employers have been shifting more and more of the contribution burden onto the public employees, not taxpayers. This is reality, as opposed to the “all public employees are parasites” world, as seen on Fox News. [/quote]

Frankly, I think most of the State Employee Unions are stupid about this issue.

They should throw the 3 Safety groups: Police, Fire and Prison Guards under the school bus. the Prison Guard contract continues with the State paying the EMPLOYEE share. It’s buried in a different of the contract. In the pension part, it proudly calls out the Employee portion, then buried in another part, it shifts that portion responsibility to the State.

Those three though have the offensive features such as retirement at 50… it’s been rolled back for new employees, but the bulk of the rank and file are still covered by 3% at 50 or 55. Plus other ugly things like “presumptive” disability.

PD, is a wonderful little thing. If you develop a heart condition at many Fire Departments, Police Departments, it is assumed the job cuased it and the City has to prove the job did not in order not to pay the disability.

Did we mention air time? At least they have to buy air time.

Most Government workers pensions, excluding health benefits, are fairly resonable and can readily be converted to defined contribution plans.

BTW, do we know how the biggest lobbyist is in California last year? California Teachers…

As for taxes going up, yes. It’s a chronic battle of “temporary” tax increases. Browns first budget included them and their extension to 5 years went down in massive defeat.

How many props to increase taxes are trying to make the election? 4?

Plus the millionaire surtax. Er, wait, it’s not a surtax, that would be illegal so it has a different name.

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[quote=CA renter]”The easiest way to understand Europe’s financial crisis is to look at the solutions being proposed to resolve it. They are a banker’s dream,…[/quote]

Ah, the bankers dream deal, a 53.5% write down of the amount owed.

Maybe we can get the State unions to take that dream deal on their pensions.

[quote=BBC]
“Greece has won a 53.5% reduction in its debt burden to private creditors, while any profits made by eurozone central banks on their holdings of Greek debt will be channelled back to Greece.” http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13798000%5B/quote%5D

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Geez SDR, give it rest. Bad apples are bad apples. If you want to complain, complain about union rules that protect them, allow them to retire instead of be fired in these types of situations (like the Miramonte teacher), and the frequent, blind union defense of them.

[no_such_reality]

[quote=bearishgurl]

Lol, CAR … I’m still waiting for all these Piggs who think the public sector is paid too much to go thru the application process themselves and then sign all the releases necessary to open up their private lives and credit reports to the PTB so that they, too, can get “selected” to make the BIG BUCKS and eventually become “vested” to collect an unconscionable pension!

Any takers???

Ah …. I didn’t think so … :=![/quote]

The hundreds, if not thousands of applicants for a handful of positions not withstanding.

But let’s play along. I have 20+ years of experience, 10+ in management. I’m responsible for an organization that has dozens of employees. Compensation budget alone in the multi-millions. Capital budget in the tens of millions.

What’s my equivalent role? I’m curious, cuz, I’d be handful of years from retiring from it in the FD if I’d have hired on.

Is having moved like that even possible in the FD?

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Skip San Diego and buy productive farm land.

Food inflation is just starting, it’ll make Gold look like chump change.

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CAR, mismanagement in an administrative sense, not a they don’t get it done sense.

By more right, I meant, if you’re right and I’m wrong on the hours, than that outliers is 4652 hours verus lower (i.e $25/hr versus $30something/hr, IOW, more hours to make that money. If the rate is as you point out ~$25/hr.

If you’re right, a Fire Fighter II at max makes $21/hr. (that concerns me, far too low). If you’re right, then 30% of Fire Figher IIs are working nearly or more than 4000 hours a year. That’s more than $90K with the $63K being for 2904 hours plus 1.5X one everything else. The outliers are working 4900 and 5200 hours. 5200 hours is two and half full time jobs (obviously some other multiplier is kicking and it’s not 5200 hours)

That is a management problem. A manager and organization cannot run 1/3rd of the team for 4000 hours a year, let alone year after year.

I see lower income people struggling with two or three part time jobs or two full time jobs or a job and a half. They’re stressed, they’re fatigued.

It’s a leadership problem.

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[quote=CA renter]
That means that the employee worked 4,652 hours that year (again, assuming MAX rate, it’s even more hours than that if working for below-max pay) — more than DOUBLE what a regular, full-time employee works.

[/quote]

I don’t think the base salary is on 2904 hours. I think that’s based on 2080 and they end up working a base of 2904 hours (OT not kicking in until the higher rules). If I’m wrong, then I’m even more right. 🙂

Seriously, 4652 is too many. It endangers the public. The high incomes (over based) is an indication of the mismanagement of the organization that is planning and allowing or not planning and forcing that much labor.

I’ve seen people work 70-80 hour weeks (going home every night) and within a month or two they are wrecked. Quality and efficiency goes way down. They may keep grinding 80 hours, but don’t really output more than 40 hours.

That’s the basic point, that the high salaries are indicative of gross mismanagement by the leadership of the organization. .

At the same time, the Union does not appear to really be fighting such overtime situations.

And counter to UCG’s point, the boots employees support the Unions and the Unions massively support the politicians and status quo. So people draw the line from Employee > Union -> Politician -> Status Quo

Now back to the 4652 hours. or even the lessor but still excessive hours needed to make nearly 50% more than the publish wage.

A) they work massive hours and get ground down by it and as you’ve said before, forced unto their multi-day shifts and just want to go home.

B) they are ‘at work’ but not really working (see lots of this in the private sector)

either of those two options lead to the following two conclusions

C) it’s mismanaged and endangers the public becuase we have people way over worked in critical safety roles.

D) they’re not overworked because they’re only “at work” so public is really getting gamed AND management allows it to happen.

I’m open to alternative scenarios. But franlkly, I’ll be thankful when the firefighters show up when we need them. I just hope it isn’t mister 4652 hours guy… I want them thinking clearly.

And contrary to others comments, the station isn’t about the high incomes, it’s about the mismanagement and apparent disregard of the stewardship of the public’s money.

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[quote=bearishgurl][quote=sdrealtor] . . . Fancy office space is for drawing in young agents who will get lousy splits. It’s the bread and butter of the big brokerages.

As for palatial office space I worked in what is the nicest real estate office along the coast and know without question you get a much lower split for the privilege of working there. Frankly that is why I left that environment. . . [/quote]

I don’t agree. It depends on WHO you are. If YOU, as a salesperson or broker-associate are a TOP producer and want to move to the large Pru’s, CB’s and C-21’s, you can certainly work out a 100% deal with the broker/owner without too much haggle. They would be GLAD to have you take up (free) space, use your NAME for their advertising, and watch you slough off all your open houses and “marginal buyers/sellers” you don’t really have time for to all the “newbie” agents there. In addition, the broker will feel their brokerage will have the opportunity to “double-end” more transactions if they bring in a top producer who constantly brings in new listings. It’s a win-win situation for the broker AND the top producer![/quote]

So theyre the rainmakers? That’s your comparison?

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CAR, you’re missing the point.

With the exception of the outliers, I’m actually pretty okay with the earnings the core firefighters make.

That said, I do have several issues:

The first is the giant gap between what they really make and what their published salary schedule says.

For example, Fire Engineer and three Fire Engineer Mast(er)

185 of 187 made more than the published Max. Again, I’m okay with vast majority of the earnings I see there. But can we agree something is wrong with what we say their income or salary is in range X-Y when 98.9% make more than Y, the MAX?

As a person that has hired people, I have very different expectations of the person that I hire that I pay $90K to $100K a year or more than I do of the person I hire making $53K to $63K. Those salaries in the private secctor come with all sorts of side expectations, on-call, unpaid overtime during crunch,travel etc.

If I look at the Fire ‘Fighters’ Fire Fighter I, II, III, Engineer, Captain, SDFD has 700+. 25% make more than 100K. 53% make more than $90K.

Again, I’m okay with that.

However, I have very different expectations of a public servant PROFESSIONAL making $90K, $100K or $110K.

I know from hiring, that I get a totally different caliber of people when I say the salary range for the hire is $80K-$100K than when I say it’s $52K-$63K. We have 341 Fire Fighter IIs in the salary range, 50% made more than $80K. Since there are only a handful of Firefighter Is and only one made more than MIX, the IIs, are our basic PROFESSIONAL.

Can we make them Salary people with Salary expectations without overtime (that’s part of the $80-$100K salary). The job comes with rotating holidays, 24 hour shifts and the expectations that major fires, natural disasters, you’re going to work and you won’t get overtime. But, we’ll be straight up and honest, you’re a firefighter II, you make $70-$110K, you are expected to have certs, maintain certs, etc. You aren’t paid hourly or daily. We expect a $100K a year professional, not a union grunt that needs a bazillion rules to decide who works what shift, and counts every minute.

That’s my point.

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Okay CAR, please explain the following from the State Controllers site:

Department Classification Multiple Positions Annual Salary Minimum Annual Salary Maximum Total Wages Subject to Medicare (Box 5 of W-2) Applicable Defined Benefit Pension Formula Employees’ Share of Pension Contributions Deferred Compensation Health, Dental, Vision
Fire-Rescue Fire Engineer — $61,589 $74,464 $95,971 3% @ 50 — — $7,225
Fire-Rescue Fire Engineer — $61,589 $74,464 $101,970 3% @ 50 — — $7,800
Fire-Rescue Fire Engineer — $61,589 $74,464 $100,093 3% @ 50 — — $7,969

which may not be clear. First entry, salary min $61K, Salary MAx $74K, W2- Medicare earnings $95K. the next one earnings $101K, the 3rd, $100K.

I’m not cherry picking this is common.

PLease explain…

http://lgcr.sco.ca.gov/CompensationDetail.aspx?entity=City&id=11983777600&year=2010&GetCsu=False&filter=Department:Fire

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The State should be evil. Privatize audit, bid it out and start the bidding at the company keeping 5% of the additional revenues they bring in from errors and violations.

Cause frankly, I can train a temp to do 20 property tax comparisons an hour and what will the violation rate be?

Just as easy on the vehicle fees on which probably everybody filing a tax return is incorrectly claiming too much deduction.

Make it really easy and profitable, add a $50 processing penalty for each violation.

People will figure out to quit fudging on their taxes really quickly.

I’m evil this way because I’m tired of the chronic screaming for more taxes in the State and the tacit wink and nod to everybody cheating or blithely ignorant to the real deduction. Cash for the nanny, cash for gardener. Deduct the mello-roos. Charitible donations of clothes that aren’t fit to be rags. When you really pay what you owe, you find out you are really taxed.

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[quote=sdrealtor]C’mon nsr at least be civil to them. No reason they cant sleep during the night as long as they are on duty and someone is awake. They also need to be at the ready so eating while at work is entirely reasonable and necessary also. What isnt necessary is Ritz Carlton like accommodations with expnsive stonework and million dollar views from the middle of nature preserves when more modest sites are available a couple hundred yards away.[/quote]

Agreed at a minimum.

However, my base point is that 24 hour shifts which require sleeping quarters are not necessary.

If they’re going work 24 hours shifts, then obviously, sleeping will be needed. 🙂

But why on 24 hours, off 24 hours, on 24 hours, off 7 days, one 24 hours. etc. Other cities have been very successful implementing regular styled work shifts.

As you say, it’s the lack of accountability. Frankly the 24 hour is more of the same, perk at the expense of the public. That same perk then drives the accomodations issue… it drives the over time issue, it drives the pension spiking issue (and what makes it so easy).

It’s more of the same “they only make XXXX” yet when you look at the State Controllers W2 statements most are making way more than XXXX. And yes, I know they’re working overtime, but how much overtime are they working to have many making 150%, 200% of their ‘base pay’? And having seen people ‘working’ overtime regular, how is pushing ‘safety’ workers that way, safe for the public?

The Fire Department justifies the expense saying every second counts. Really? So a sleeping firefighter is out the door as fast as an awake firefighter? (and yes, I know they’re out the door fast and appreciate it.)

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[quote=sdrealtor]Nothing wrong with living quarters, kitchen, dining area and workout area. Most stations have that. Its the extravagent architecture of all the new stations, the most prime of prime locations 0ften in pristine environmentally sensitive areas, the amazing views )of course they need to be able to see the smoke rising at Big Bear and TJ) and that oceanview deck they snuck into the new La Costa Station. I’d love to hear a justification for that. Those guys have gotta be laughing all the way…..

They should make a calender of Fire Stations of San Diego. It’s like government porn.[/quote]

I disagree. It continues to promote the antiquated 24 hour shifts. They need them because they “work” 24 straight hours. Which obviously includes, eating, sleeping, working out…

From the SDFD website:
Desirable Work Schedule (Up to 21 days off per month)
11 Annual Paid Holidays
17 Days Annual Paid Vacation/Sick Leave

Are those 17 days, 17 8 hour days or 17 “days” and they work 9 or 10 days a month?

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Thanks for the link CAR.

Couple notables from it. Key word. *estimated*
Overall pricing isn’t bad $550 per sf

Then the details come out
Living quarters, a kitchen, dining room and a workout area

And the bomb

Initially, the station will house a three-person engine company, which includes three three-person crews. The station has room to bring in an additional truck, or possibly an ambulance, Michel said.

Wow $4.7 million to house a 3 person single fire engine and maybe ambulance in the future.

[no_such_reality]

Thanks for the link CAR.

Couple notables from it. Key word. *estimated*
Overall pricing isn’t bad $550 per sf

Then the details come out
Living quarters, a kitchen, dining room and a workout area

And the bomb

Initially, the station will house a three-person engine company, which includes three three-person crews. The station has room to bring in an additional truck, or possibly an ambulance, Michel said.

Wow $4.7 million to house a 3 person single fire engine and maybe ambulance in the future.

[Author]

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