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millennial
Participant[quote=bearishgurl][quote=The-Shoveler]OK, but I find it hard to see how flex time and flex location in most occupations other than tech would even work.[/quote]Bingo, shoveler! Admitted millenial yamashi1 stated he worked in finance. (Please correct me if I have this wrong, yamashi.) Does he actually see his employer’s clients in his home office? I could see him being able to log into his work servers from home and maybe put together some charts and reports from his home office but that’s where it ends. What about meetings, customers and clients? Am I missing something here??[/quote]
Yes, I believe that I said that perception has changed. Although meeting clients face to face is nice, it is no longer necessary as this perception has changed. I am able to use facetime/Skype/teleconferencing in place. My company loves it since I spend less on air and hotel expenses and the client likes it cause we can communicate effectively and able to get things done quicker.
Participant[quote=The-Shoveler]Nurses, Doctors, Police, fireman, Grocery, Plummers, Judge, Road workers, construction, anyone who has to interface with the public … 90% of the jobs out there.
Pilots and Air-traffic controllers often complain about their tough schedules actually.[/quote]
A lot of Doctors I know have the ability to flexible. For instance, I have a buddy who worked a 50 hour shift last week and since things are slow this week decided to free up his schedule for a few days to play some golf. Not sure why plumbers couldn’t do the same thing.
Judges are government employees so they may be able to request for flex hours. I have buddies (including my father) who work/ed for government and are able to do 6 days a week/10 hours days per week and/ have flexible hours when they need to come in. Not sure why you couldn’t do the same for construction or grocery.
Participant[quote=bearishgurl]we didn’t have them one after another in immediate succession (at least not planned), like I see multiple families headed by millenials do. We couldn’t because FT daycare for 2+ kids at a time (without assistance from relatives) took up too much of a chunk of our paychecks. [/quote] This is more dribble with no fact checking. It might be true, and it might relate to your personal opinion. It makes you sound like you think we are a bunch of irresponsible kids who don’t have fiscal sense. Personally I know a lot of people who space them out, but I think that’s more of a personal choice. I spend a lot of money a month >$4k on schooling and day care, but again I don’t want to be 65 and paying for college.
[quote=bearishgurl]
I don’t know any boomers who are heavily indebted (secured or unsecured) and thus would need to keep working FT to pay off debt.[/quote]I don’t think I ever said it was to pay off debt. My first assumption would be that most people at that age would/should have little debt and will be using their 401k to maintain their existing lifestyle with pension/ss included.
Participant[quote=The-Shoveler]OK but anyway IMO no matter how you slice it is still just the few, not the many.[/quote]
Please provide 5 examples of jobs that cannot utilize flextime (eg. 10 hour work days, 4x a week) or flex location (eg. working remotely), to better retain employees and help work around their schedules.Participant[quote=The-Shoveler]OK, but I find it hard to see how flex time and flex location in most occupations other than tech would even work.[/quote]
You will be surprised how many fields flex time and/ location works. For instance, I’ve even heard of flight controllers who direct traffic that are able to do their job in remote areas off Miramar road for airports in Burbank and Long Beach.
I’m in finance and work with companies on both coasts and can work with international clients if necessary.
In a previous job I worked with a developer who never left his home and he was able to manage a large portfolio of commercial real estate properties by having people email pictures of sites.
A lot of this has to do with the change of perceptions. Obviously face-to-face contact is better, but Skype/facetime/teleconference is acceptable and just as effective in many cases. This is the same as handwritten letters vs. emails.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]The 90s. That would be GenX. [/quote]
Hmmm…when I hear the term Millenials I think of people born in the late 70’s/early 80’s to early 2000s. I was born in Sept ’79 so I consider myself a cusper.
[quote]He makes less money than in the private sector but he doesn’t care. He’s smart, has skills and can write his own ticket. He’s thinking about quit his job again and starting a business. That’s a different attitude from boomers who were more salarymen.[/quote]
Yes that can be tied to our generation, but as Flyer said earlier, you boomers did it too (for instance my father). I know someone, programmer at Google for 5+ years and now going to quit for a year to study for MCAT and then decide if he “wants” to be a doctor. Boomers might think he’s nuts, but to me it seems like a safe bet. If he enjoys it and it gives him more meaning to life good for him, if not he can pretty much find a mid 6 figure job elsewhere. I guess Google on resumes look good.
Participant[quote=bearishgurl]
That’s it, in a nutshell. The “expectations” of most young adults today (esp those with college degrees) are through the roof and completely unrealistic. Especially for residents of crowded, CA coastal counties with a HUGE well-established “captive audience” of deep-pocketed, lifetime residents, many who have been in the local workforce for 40+ years. In my mind, millenials can’t possibly “compete” with all of these factors and shouldn’t be expected to. They must be satisfied with what they have currently attained, stay humble and keep “showing up,” keeping themselves as “visible” as possible at work. They need to “pay their dues” if they want to be able to compete for future promotions. As worker-bees with 0-15 years experience, they can’t have everything NOW![/quote]Like I said about your previous post, you are a very biased individual who has personalized many things I have written and spit them out for your personal biased agenda.
A lot of the things you say that you are refuting is not the nature of what I intended. In addition, you continue to rant about how millenials feel entitled to everything for doing nothing. To be honest nothing could be farther from the truth.
The one thing you are correct about though is the “pay their dues” theory. Like I said before, we are results oriented people who believe in a just and meritocratic society. We believe that you don’t deserve a job because of the color of your skin, the amount of gray hair you have, or the amount of hours you sit in front of your computer. We believe in the bottom line, how much $ you bring into the company, how much impact you have to the bottom line.
Not sure why you are so against it, but it seems like you were ousted by someone younger who may have made more money for your company. Either way, not my concern in the slightest. BTW, I asked my boomer coworkers where they live and a few live down the street from me, and the rest live in Carmel Valley, Bird Rock, and Coronado. Not sure where you were going with that question, but just answered it since you asked.
Participant[quote=bearishgurl]
If millenials are now coming and going as they please in most office settings and still taking their full vacations and collecting their full pay, then they have absolutely NOTHING to complain about.No worker is ever “guaranteed” continuous internal promotions. This has always been the case.[/quote]
BG not sure what your background is, nor do I care, but it seems like you have absolutely no idea of what it is like to work for a private enterprise. I’ve been out of college for 15 years now and have worked for 4 or so different companies so I think I have a better idea of what you assume you know.
#1 most businesses have strict attendance policies especially concerning vacation and sick time. When I am sick, or take a day off I submit it to someone and they record it somewhere. I am also allotted a certain amount of days per year of which if I go over I am unpaid. I personally don’t know many companies where this doesn’t happen, and the only ones I could think that this would not be the case are people paid on commission, or entrepreneurs;
#2 obviously we don’t believe that just because you’re in an organization for an allotted amount of time you are owed a promotion; this is ridiculous. In fact, I remember telling you that Millenials believe in promotions based on merit and fact. We are factual oriented and based on numbers and how much you bring into the firm…the bottom line.
For some reason you seem to be a very biased individual who misconstrues most of the things I try and tell you about. I continue to try and let you know about how Millenials are, but you continue to try and find ways to turn it into your biased and misconstrued view of what Millenials are. Well…sorry to say this, but you seem like an old crotchety person who needs to open your mind a little.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=The-Shoveler]
Bosses don’t have the authority they once did.[/quote]
Nor does it seem like they care as much. A lot of companies right now have a high percentage of upper management Boomer generation people who are stuck there because their company stock/401k went to crap. What has happened is that we have all these older people who are less motivated and pretty much only there to collect a paycheck until they have enough to retire. Meanwhile, Millenials are limited in the amount of upward mobility. To be honest, I’m tired of hearing boomers bitch about how much longer they have to work cause their stocks took a dump, or how the young generation are all lazy and have no ambition and all stuck in retail jobs. The reason why we are here is because you guys won’t retire and leave! Those people you see working retail, are there because there are no jobs elsewhere…it’s not cause they love serving coffee and folding shirts. Keep complaining about not being able to leave your high paying job, meanwhile many Millenials can’t even start their career.
Participant[quote=flyer]Yes, BG, I have posted the points you made above, and, yes, those are the facts, but the purpose of my recent post was to illustrate the point that, as Millennials like to point out regarding their options in life, many of us, as Boomers, were also in a position to choose how we lived our lives–in direct opposition to common myths floating around about our generation.
[/quote]Flyer, seems like you have had a great life so far and one that I am personally trying to achieve. Regarding your statement above regarding “options in life” I don’t think us Millennials feel that we have more options per se, but instead more open to the idea of flexibility in our current jobs thanks to technology and the way we think. If using the 80’s as an example, someone in finance such as myself would be required to work in the office during a set time and others would view working remotely or leaving early and logging in later negatively. I think my generation is significantly more understanding and open to this idea as our ideas of work has shifted. A lot of old timers don’t understand this new work environment (my father included), and for some reason equates this to leaving work early to less productivity. Our generation would instead look at this much more positively as we really dislike micromanaging, and value a positive work/life balance.
Participant[quote=The-Shoveler]The term Work smarter was invented in the mid 80’s[/quote]
Good for you. You invented it, our generation lived it as my parents were pounding it in our brains. Tell me which generation is this philosophy more ingrained? Just as you preached efficiency (which is a millennial trait btw) I keep preaching to my children to be more flexible.
Participant[quote=The-Shoveler]Right now reminds me very much of the eighties, IMO the next 10 years will be a repeat of the late 80’s but that is just MO.
For those who want to work hard there will be plenty of opportunity IMO.[/quote]
I guess time will tell, but IMO I feel globalization will only continue to increase with improvements in tech. In addition, when you say “work hard” I think they will also need to “work smarter”, as hard workers are everywhere. Hard workers are aplenty, and cheap.
Participant[quote=The-Shoveler]You would have had to be there but it was REALLY BAD.
Japan was eating the world like godzilla!![/quote]
I told you that I remember that. Maybe where you were you felt it when they came over and bought everything up and jacked up property values. Personally I felt it growing up outside Detroit as it was hitting the bottom lines of the big 4 auto firms and union workers were leaving places like Detroit and Flint in droves. This being said, now it’s not just Japan but the rest of the world. When I bought my house, I had to compete against cash buyers from Korea, China, South America, Mexico and Canada. This was on top of other upper middle class Americans, and probably some private equity. When I applied for school, I had to compete against others from England, Spain, Korea, Japan, and China and this was in the 90’s. I can only imagine what it would take to get into a Yale, Harvard or even a Berkley now, but I bet it is many times harder than the 70’s/80’s.
Participant[quote=The-Shoveler]LOL you should have been around in the late 70’s and early 80’s trying to get ahead LOL!!! LOL!!!![/quote]
Please expand on how it was? I was a kid in the 80’s, so I don’t know how it was. Was it nearly impossible for people to get into top tier schools, or Ivy Leagues for that matter? Was their more intense global competition? I’m sure there was some things that affected your generation negatively, just as mine. I’m not saying your generation was a walk in the park. What I am saying is that my generation had to continue to adapt, just as you did from the generation prior, and my children will need to again. Looking back at history, personally I think that the golden age for US was after WWII which led to the baby boomers and the country has been in a decline since…or the world has caught up.
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