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jstoesz
Participant[quote]Thats not what I want to teach my child. Its the worst argument I have ever heard. If you cant find an answer just say “bcauase God did it”. That is not what I want to teach my child. It is anti citical thinking.[/quote]
We are in agreement on one thing here. I don’t want to teach your child ID either.
Do you seek to control the education of other peoples children? I don’t…
Participant[quote]Keep repeating it. It won’t make it any more true. Research its origin. It is a laughable argument.[/quote]
ID is not intended to apply only to Christianity. It is intended to be compliment to natural selection.
It is certainly not trying to fit evolution into the confines of a literary device known as a story (the two Genesis stories). The origins of the basic concepts of ID go back to Plato and his thoughts of the Unmoved Mover. The concept has evolved through time to confront the theory of evolution as requiring a mover. Something that steers evolution into the world we have today. It is the same thought process as the big bang requiring something to create the matter, the universe, and set it in motion. Something can not come of nothing…
These concepts are frequently championed by Christians, but their basis is not in Christianity, nor is it exclusive to Christianity.
Participant[quote]Keep repeating it. It won’t make it any more true. Research its origin. It is a laughable argument.[/quote]
ID is not intended to apply only to Christianity. It is intended to be compliment to natural selection.
It is certainly not trying to fit evolution into the confines of a literary device known as a story (the two Genesis stories). The origins of the basic concepts of ID go back to Plato and his thoughts of the Unmoved Mover. The concept has evolved through time to confront the theory of evolution as requiring a mover. Something that steers evolution into the world we have today. It is the same thought process as the big bang requiring something to create the matter, the universe, and set it in motion. Something can not come of nothing…
These concepts are frequently championed by Christians, but their basis is not in Christianity, nor is it exclusive to Christianity.
Participant[quote]Keep repeating it. It won’t make it any more true. Research its origin. It is a laughable argument.[/quote]
ID is not intended to apply only to Christianity. It is intended to be compliment to natural selection.
It is certainly not trying to fit evolution into the confines of a literary device known as a story (the two Genesis stories). The origins of the basic concepts of ID go back to Plato and his thoughts of the Unmoved Mover. The concept has evolved through time to confront the theory of evolution as requiring a mover. Something that steers evolution into the world we have today. It is the same thought process as the big bang requiring something to create the matter, the universe, and set it in motion. Something can not come of nothing…
These concepts are frequently championed by Christians, but their basis is not in Christianity, nor is it exclusive to Christianity.
Participant[quote]Keep repeating it. It won’t make it any more true. Research its origin. It is a laughable argument.[/quote]
ID is not intended to apply only to Christianity. It is intended to be compliment to natural selection.
It is certainly not trying to fit evolution into the confines of a literary device known as a story (the two Genesis stories). The origins of the basic concepts of ID go back to Plato and his thoughts of the Unmoved Mover. The concept has evolved through time to confront the theory of evolution as requiring a mover. Something that steers evolution into the world we have today. It is the same thought process as the big bang requiring something to create the matter, the universe, and set it in motion. Something can not come of nothing…
These concepts are frequently championed by Christians, but their basis is not in Christianity, nor is it exclusive to Christianity.
Participant[quote]Keep repeating it. It won’t make it any more true. Research its origin. It is a laughable argument.[/quote]
ID is not intended to apply only to Christianity. It is intended to be compliment to natural selection.
It is certainly not trying to fit evolution into the confines of a literary device known as a story (the two Genesis stories). The origins of the basic concepts of ID go back to Plato and his thoughts of the Unmoved Mover. The concept has evolved through time to confront the theory of evolution as requiring a mover. Something that steers evolution into the world we have today. It is the same thought process as the big bang requiring something to create the matter, the universe, and set it in motion. Something can not come of nothing…
These concepts are frequently championed by Christians, but their basis is not in Christianity, nor is it exclusive to Christianity.
Participant[quote]I don’t believe that there is a fear or distrust of religion in, and of, itself. I think the fear is based on what many people on the right are doing in the NAME of religion, and supposedly in the name of God. Go back to your history books and look at the number of times this has happened before, cases where huge numbers were slaughtered and nations were destroyed. Look carefully and almost invariably you will find that the instigators of these events, the leaders of these uprisings, all claimed to be doing this “in the name of the Lord, our God” (insert appropriate name as per personal religion). Yet, no matter how many times I read the New Testament, I never hear Jesus exhorting His disciples and followers to go out and kill massive numbers of people because they worship other gods.[/quote]
Eavesdropper…For every atrocity done in the name of religion, there has been similar done in the name of Secularism (or in the name of selfishness)…Look no further than Salin and Moa. The inquisition has nothing on the modern day implementation of Communism…
Fact is evil people do evil things. It doesn’t matter in what name they do it. Evil people justify their evil actions in all sorts of ways. At least Religion upholds community, morality, responsibility, and many other socially beneficial beliefs. But evil things are done by many in religion and many out…because both groups are comprised of people.
[quote]There are many, many people who describe themselves as politically liberal and who actively practice some form of Christian religion. In addition, there are a large number who, although they do not follow or belong to a formal religious group, describe themselves as believers in God and observant of Judeo-Christian laws and principles[/quote]
I completely agree that Religious people are not all conservative. In fact I have many friends who are strong Christians and are liberal. Anyone who says differently is quite frankly wrong. I was saying that the resistance from the liberal piggs who have responded to God in public schools seemed to border on fear of God. Fear of your child’s exposure to God. But in my view of a public school, you should be able to send your Child to a parochial school or secular school. It should be your choice, and you should not be at a disadvantage if you wish the parochial.
If we had a voucher system and open districts, you would get that choice.
[quote]js, I like the suggestions you make in your second paragraph IN THEORY, and I applaud you for your concern about content and diversity. However, it is simply not possible or practical in the public schools. There are too many children at a variety of basic knowledge capacity and learning capabilities whom the schools are expected to educate at a minimum level so that they can leave school at 18 and gain employment. It used to be that the only way you could get the kind of diversity in content you suggest was to send your child to private school. [/quote]
Didn’t you just say that there are too many kids coming from too many different places? Why don’t we want them all entering the world with different sets of knowledge? I agree everyone should be able to read, write, and understand math at some basic level, but I would like some schools to focus more on literature or philosophy or engineering or geopolitics. I see it as the solution to the diversity of children that we have in society. We should not seek to pump out drones like every other child out there. Why couldn’t every school be a private school, or something like a private school? Why do we need state control, owning the buildings and paying the teachers directly.
To your comment on parents…I completely agree! This is actually why most private schools have higher achieving students. It may be that their kids are smarter, but more likely it is that there parents care. If they are willing to sacrifice to send their kids to private school, they almost certainly care about their children’s welfare in a big and involved way. Good schools can help foster kids, but without good parents their efforts are largely wasted. Our society has left our children to be raise by video games and tax payer paid babysitters (teachers) while the parents work two jobs to stay in the middle class. It is really sad.
Participant[quote]I don’t believe that there is a fear or distrust of religion in, and of, itself. I think the fear is based on what many people on the right are doing in the NAME of religion, and supposedly in the name of God. Go back to your history books and look at the number of times this has happened before, cases where huge numbers were slaughtered and nations were destroyed. Look carefully and almost invariably you will find that the instigators of these events, the leaders of these uprisings, all claimed to be doing this “in the name of the Lord, our God” (insert appropriate name as per personal religion). Yet, no matter how many times I read the New Testament, I never hear Jesus exhorting His disciples and followers to go out and kill massive numbers of people because they worship other gods.[/quote]
Eavesdropper…For every atrocity done in the name of religion, there has been similar done in the name of Secularism (or in the name of selfishness)…Look no further than Salin and Moa. The inquisition has nothing on the modern day implementation of Communism…
Fact is evil people do evil things. It doesn’t matter in what name they do it. Evil people justify their evil actions in all sorts of ways. At least Religion upholds community, morality, responsibility, and many other socially beneficial beliefs. But evil things are done by many in religion and many out…because both groups are comprised of people.
[quote]There are many, many people who describe themselves as politically liberal and who actively practice some form of Christian religion. In addition, there are a large number who, although they do not follow or belong to a formal religious group, describe themselves as believers in God and observant of Judeo-Christian laws and principles[/quote]
I completely agree that Religious people are not all conservative. In fact I have many friends who are strong Christians and are liberal. Anyone who says differently is quite frankly wrong. I was saying that the resistance from the liberal piggs who have responded to God in public schools seemed to border on fear of God. Fear of your child’s exposure to God. But in my view of a public school, you should be able to send your Child to a parochial school or secular school. It should be your choice, and you should not be at a disadvantage if you wish the parochial.
If we had a voucher system and open districts, you would get that choice.
[quote]js, I like the suggestions you make in your second paragraph IN THEORY, and I applaud you for your concern about content and diversity. However, it is simply not possible or practical in the public schools. There are too many children at a variety of basic knowledge capacity and learning capabilities whom the schools are expected to educate at a minimum level so that they can leave school at 18 and gain employment. It used to be that the only way you could get the kind of diversity in content you suggest was to send your child to private school. [/quote]
Didn’t you just say that there are too many kids coming from too many different places? Why don’t we want them all entering the world with different sets of knowledge? I agree everyone should be able to read, write, and understand math at some basic level, but I would like some schools to focus more on literature or philosophy or engineering or geopolitics. I see it as the solution to the diversity of children that we have in society. We should not seek to pump out drones like every other child out there. Why couldn’t every school be a private school, or something like a private school? Why do we need state control, owning the buildings and paying the teachers directly.
To your comment on parents…I completely agree! This is actually why most private schools have higher achieving students. It may be that their kids are smarter, but more likely it is that there parents care. If they are willing to sacrifice to send their kids to private school, they almost certainly care about their children’s welfare in a big and involved way. Good schools can help foster kids, but without good parents their efforts are largely wasted. Our society has left our children to be raise by video games and tax payer paid babysitters (teachers) while the parents work two jobs to stay in the middle class. It is really sad.
Participant[quote]I don’t believe that there is a fear or distrust of religion in, and of, itself. I think the fear is based on what many people on the right are doing in the NAME of religion, and supposedly in the name of God. Go back to your history books and look at the number of times this has happened before, cases where huge numbers were slaughtered and nations were destroyed. Look carefully and almost invariably you will find that the instigators of these events, the leaders of these uprisings, all claimed to be doing this “in the name of the Lord, our God” (insert appropriate name as per personal religion). Yet, no matter how many times I read the New Testament, I never hear Jesus exhorting His disciples and followers to go out and kill massive numbers of people because they worship other gods.[/quote]
Eavesdropper…For every atrocity done in the name of religion, there has been similar done in the name of Secularism (or in the name of selfishness)…Look no further than Salin and Moa. The inquisition has nothing on the modern day implementation of Communism…
Fact is evil people do evil things. It doesn’t matter in what name they do it. Evil people justify their evil actions in all sorts of ways. At least Religion upholds community, morality, responsibility, and many other socially beneficial beliefs. But evil things are done by many in religion and many out…because both groups are comprised of people.
[quote]There are many, many people who describe themselves as politically liberal and who actively practice some form of Christian religion. In addition, there are a large number who, although they do not follow or belong to a formal religious group, describe themselves as believers in God and observant of Judeo-Christian laws and principles[/quote]
I completely agree that Religious people are not all conservative. In fact I have many friends who are strong Christians and are liberal. Anyone who says differently is quite frankly wrong. I was saying that the resistance from the liberal piggs who have responded to God in public schools seemed to border on fear of God. Fear of your child’s exposure to God. But in my view of a public school, you should be able to send your Child to a parochial school or secular school. It should be your choice, and you should not be at a disadvantage if you wish the parochial.
If we had a voucher system and open districts, you would get that choice.
[quote]js, I like the suggestions you make in your second paragraph IN THEORY, and I applaud you for your concern about content and diversity. However, it is simply not possible or practical in the public schools. There are too many children at a variety of basic knowledge capacity and learning capabilities whom the schools are expected to educate at a minimum level so that they can leave school at 18 and gain employment. It used to be that the only way you could get the kind of diversity in content you suggest was to send your child to private school. [/quote]
Didn’t you just say that there are too many kids coming from too many different places? Why don’t we want them all entering the world with different sets of knowledge? I agree everyone should be able to read, write, and understand math at some basic level, but I would like some schools to focus more on literature or philosophy or engineering or geopolitics. I see it as the solution to the diversity of children that we have in society. We should not seek to pump out drones like every other child out there. Why couldn’t every school be a private school, or something like a private school? Why do we need state control, owning the buildings and paying the teachers directly.
To your comment on parents…I completely agree! This is actually why most private schools have higher achieving students. It may be that their kids are smarter, but more likely it is that there parents care. If they are willing to sacrifice to send their kids to private school, they almost certainly care about their children’s welfare in a big and involved way. Good schools can help foster kids, but without good parents their efforts are largely wasted. Our society has left our children to be raise by video games and tax payer paid babysitters (teachers) while the parents work two jobs to stay in the middle class. It is really sad.
Participant[quote]I don’t believe that there is a fear or distrust of religion in, and of, itself. I think the fear is based on what many people on the right are doing in the NAME of religion, and supposedly in the name of God. Go back to your history books and look at the number of times this has happened before, cases where huge numbers were slaughtered and nations were destroyed. Look carefully and almost invariably you will find that the instigators of these events, the leaders of these uprisings, all claimed to be doing this “in the name of the Lord, our God” (insert appropriate name as per personal religion). Yet, no matter how many times I read the New Testament, I never hear Jesus exhorting His disciples and followers to go out and kill massive numbers of people because they worship other gods.[/quote]
Eavesdropper…For every atrocity done in the name of religion, there has been similar done in the name of Secularism (or in the name of selfishness)…Look no further than Salin and Moa. The inquisition has nothing on the modern day implementation of Communism…
Fact is evil people do evil things. It doesn’t matter in what name they do it. Evil people justify their evil actions in all sorts of ways. At least Religion upholds community, morality, responsibility, and many other socially beneficial beliefs. But evil things are done by many in religion and many out…because both groups are comprised of people.
[quote]There are many, many people who describe themselves as politically liberal and who actively practice some form of Christian religion. In addition, there are a large number who, although they do not follow or belong to a formal religious group, describe themselves as believers in God and observant of Judeo-Christian laws and principles[/quote]
I completely agree that Religious people are not all conservative. In fact I have many friends who are strong Christians and are liberal. Anyone who says differently is quite frankly wrong. I was saying that the resistance from the liberal piggs who have responded to God in public schools seemed to border on fear of God. Fear of your child’s exposure to God. But in my view of a public school, you should be able to send your Child to a parochial school or secular school. It should be your choice, and you should not be at a disadvantage if you wish the parochial.
If we had a voucher system and open districts, you would get that choice.
[quote]js, I like the suggestions you make in your second paragraph IN THEORY, and I applaud you for your concern about content and diversity. However, it is simply not possible or practical in the public schools. There are too many children at a variety of basic knowledge capacity and learning capabilities whom the schools are expected to educate at a minimum level so that they can leave school at 18 and gain employment. It used to be that the only way you could get the kind of diversity in content you suggest was to send your child to private school. [/quote]
Didn’t you just say that there are too many kids coming from too many different places? Why don’t we want them all entering the world with different sets of knowledge? I agree everyone should be able to read, write, and understand math at some basic level, but I would like some schools to focus more on literature or philosophy or engineering or geopolitics. I see it as the solution to the diversity of children that we have in society. We should not seek to pump out drones like every other child out there. Why couldn’t every school be a private school, or something like a private school? Why do we need state control, owning the buildings and paying the teachers directly.
To your comment on parents…I completely agree! This is actually why most private schools have higher achieving students. It may be that their kids are smarter, but more likely it is that there parents care. If they are willing to sacrifice to send their kids to private school, they almost certainly care about their children’s welfare in a big and involved way. Good schools can help foster kids, but without good parents their efforts are largely wasted. Our society has left our children to be raise by video games and tax payer paid babysitters (teachers) while the parents work two jobs to stay in the middle class. It is really sad.
Participant[quote]I don’t believe that there is a fear or distrust of religion in, and of, itself. I think the fear is based on what many people on the right are doing in the NAME of religion, and supposedly in the name of God. Go back to your history books and look at the number of times this has happened before, cases where huge numbers were slaughtered and nations were destroyed. Look carefully and almost invariably you will find that the instigators of these events, the leaders of these uprisings, all claimed to be doing this “in the name of the Lord, our God” (insert appropriate name as per personal religion). Yet, no matter how many times I read the New Testament, I never hear Jesus exhorting His disciples and followers to go out and kill massive numbers of people because they worship other gods.[/quote]
Eavesdropper…For every atrocity done in the name of religion, there has been similar done in the name of Secularism (or in the name of selfishness)…Look no further than Salin and Moa. The inquisition has nothing on the modern day implementation of Communism…
Fact is evil people do evil things. It doesn’t matter in what name they do it. Evil people justify their evil actions in all sorts of ways. At least Religion upholds community, morality, responsibility, and many other socially beneficial beliefs. But evil things are done by many in religion and many out…because both groups are comprised of people.
[quote]There are many, many people who describe themselves as politically liberal and who actively practice some form of Christian religion. In addition, there are a large number who, although they do not follow or belong to a formal religious group, describe themselves as believers in God and observant of Judeo-Christian laws and principles[/quote]
I completely agree that Religious people are not all conservative. In fact I have many friends who are strong Christians and are liberal. Anyone who says differently is quite frankly wrong. I was saying that the resistance from the liberal piggs who have responded to God in public schools seemed to border on fear of God. Fear of your child’s exposure to God. But in my view of a public school, you should be able to send your Child to a parochial school or secular school. It should be your choice, and you should not be at a disadvantage if you wish the parochial.
If we had a voucher system and open districts, you would get that choice.
[quote]js, I like the suggestions you make in your second paragraph IN THEORY, and I applaud you for your concern about content and diversity. However, it is simply not possible or practical in the public schools. There are too many children at a variety of basic knowledge capacity and learning capabilities whom the schools are expected to educate at a minimum level so that they can leave school at 18 and gain employment. It used to be that the only way you could get the kind of diversity in content you suggest was to send your child to private school. [/quote]
Didn’t you just say that there are too many kids coming from too many different places? Why don’t we want them all entering the world with different sets of knowledge? I agree everyone should be able to read, write, and understand math at some basic level, but I would like some schools to focus more on literature or philosophy or engineering or geopolitics. I see it as the solution to the diversity of children that we have in society. We should not seek to pump out drones like every other child out there. Why couldn’t every school be a private school, or something like a private school? Why do we need state control, owning the buildings and paying the teachers directly.
To your comment on parents…I completely agree! This is actually why most private schools have higher achieving students. It may be that their kids are smarter, but more likely it is that there parents care. If they are willing to sacrifice to send their kids to private school, they almost certainly care about their children’s welfare in a big and involved way. Good schools can help foster kids, but without good parents their efforts are largely wasted. Our society has left our children to be raise by video games and tax payer paid babysitters (teachers) while the parents work two jobs to stay in the middle class. It is really sad.
Participantgandalf, based on your last post I am reasonably sure you have no idea what intelligent design is. Intelligent design has nothing to do with either of the two (factually contradictory) Genesis stories. The basic theory of intelligent design is that, natural selection is insufficient to explain the evolution of creation. There are various good reasons for why natural selection is insufficient such as irreducible complexity of certain systems (disputed by numerous scientist) or just the statistical improbability of only natural selection resulting in our evolution.
I am not a big proponent of intelligent design as science. I personally do not care. But, I do think that natural selection alone takes a good bit of faith.
But I repeat, Intelligent design has nothing to do with Christianity/Judaism or Genesis.
Participantgandalf, based on your last post I am reasonably sure you have no idea what intelligent design is. Intelligent design has nothing to do with either of the two (factually contradictory) Genesis stories. The basic theory of intelligent design is that, natural selection is insufficient to explain the evolution of creation. There are various good reasons for why natural selection is insufficient such as irreducible complexity of certain systems (disputed by numerous scientist) or just the statistical improbability of only natural selection resulting in our evolution.
I am not a big proponent of intelligent design as science. I personally do not care. But, I do think that natural selection alone takes a good bit of faith.
But I repeat, Intelligent design has nothing to do with Christianity/Judaism or Genesis.
Participantgandalf, based on your last post I am reasonably sure you have no idea what intelligent design is. Intelligent design has nothing to do with either of the two (factually contradictory) Genesis stories. The basic theory of intelligent design is that, natural selection is insufficient to explain the evolution of creation. There are various good reasons for why natural selection is insufficient such as irreducible complexity of certain systems (disputed by numerous scientist) or just the statistical improbability of only natural selection resulting in our evolution.
I am not a big proponent of intelligent design as science. I personally do not care. But, I do think that natural selection alone takes a good bit of faith.
But I repeat, Intelligent design has nothing to do with Christianity/Judaism or Genesis.
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