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jpinpb
ParticipantAN – No where does RP say he would allow abortion in health circumstances requiring it. He is against Roe V Wade. Period. In fact, he says the opposite, that he’s never seen a situation where it’s justified. Right there, he loses credibility on so many other issues, b/c I have to question his facts. Perhaps he was lucky enough to treat extremely healthy women. In any case, I do not want to digress and go totally off topic.
A woman should not have to leave the country or state. A woman who has some health issues that would cause her to have an abortion means she should be able to go to the nearest hospital and have that procedure done as quickly as possible.
Perhaps RP would feel better if there were more women graves than fetuses. If only we could send him back in time, or maybe to countries w/subpar healthcare where a pregnant woman has one step in the grave.
I would not wish on any woman to have to go through an abortion. More importantly, I would not want a woman to have do it illegally.
And if you know that death penalty and abortion are different topics, why interject it in the first place?
ParticipantAN – No where does RP say he would allow abortion in health circumstances requiring it. He is against Roe V Wade. Period. In fact, he says the opposite, that he’s never seen a situation where it’s justified. Right there, he loses credibility on so many other issues, b/c I have to question his facts. Perhaps he was lucky enough to treat extremely healthy women. In any case, I do not want to digress and go totally off topic.
A woman should not have to leave the country or state. A woman who has some health issues that would cause her to have an abortion means she should be able to go to the nearest hospital and have that procedure done as quickly as possible.
Perhaps RP would feel better if there were more women graves than fetuses. If only we could send him back in time, or maybe to countries w/subpar healthcare where a pregnant woman has one step in the grave.
I would not wish on any woman to have to go through an abortion. More importantly, I would not want a woman to have do it illegally.
And if you know that death penalty and abortion are different topics, why interject it in the first place?
Participant[quote=CA renter][quote=outtamojo]Renters don’t get breaks? Renters get free fire and police protection and those with kids get free
schools and anything else property tax pays for.[/quote]Unless the landlords are in the red every month for the same amount as their property taxes (after deductions are taken into account), then it’s the renters who are paying the property tax — through the landlord.
If the landlords are making a profit, then they are the ones getting something for free.[/quote]
Yes. I was going to say that. True the renters aren’t cutting a check directly to the bank/government. They are writing a check to the landlord and very likely some of that money goes to the bank/government, so indirectly, the renter is still paying for it.
Maybe we can change the laws where the landlord gets less rent and the renter gets the write-off while cutting a check to the bank/government.
The landlord is a third party.
Participant[quote=CA renter][quote=outtamojo]Renters don’t get breaks? Renters get free fire and police protection and those with kids get free
schools and anything else property tax pays for.[/quote]Unless the landlords are in the red every month for the same amount as their property taxes (after deductions are taken into account), then it’s the renters who are paying the property tax — through the landlord.
If the landlords are making a profit, then they are the ones getting something for free.[/quote]
Yes. I was going to say that. True the renters aren’t cutting a check directly to the bank/government. They are writing a check to the landlord and very likely some of that money goes to the bank/government, so indirectly, the renter is still paying for it.
Maybe we can change the laws where the landlord gets less rent and the renter gets the write-off while cutting a check to the bank/government.
The landlord is a third party.
Participant[quote=CA renter][quote=outtamojo]Renters don’t get breaks? Renters get free fire and police protection and those with kids get free
schools and anything else property tax pays for.[/quote]Unless the landlords are in the red every month for the same amount as their property taxes (after deductions are taken into account), then it’s the renters who are paying the property tax — through the landlord.
If the landlords are making a profit, then they are the ones getting something for free.[/quote]
Yes. I was going to say that. True the renters aren’t cutting a check directly to the bank/government. They are writing a check to the landlord and very likely some of that money goes to the bank/government, so indirectly, the renter is still paying for it.
Maybe we can change the laws where the landlord gets less rent and the renter gets the write-off while cutting a check to the bank/government.
The landlord is a third party.
Participant[quote=CA renter][quote=outtamojo]Renters don’t get breaks? Renters get free fire and police protection and those with kids get free
schools and anything else property tax pays for.[/quote]Unless the landlords are in the red every month for the same amount as their property taxes (after deductions are taken into account), then it’s the renters who are paying the property tax — through the landlord.
If the landlords are making a profit, then they are the ones getting something for free.[/quote]
Yes. I was going to say that. True the renters aren’t cutting a check directly to the bank/government. They are writing a check to the landlord and very likely some of that money goes to the bank/government, so indirectly, the renter is still paying for it.
Maybe we can change the laws where the landlord gets less rent and the renter gets the write-off while cutting a check to the bank/government.
The landlord is a third party.
Participant[quote=CA renter][quote=outtamojo]Renters don’t get breaks? Renters get free fire and police protection and those with kids get free
schools and anything else property tax pays for.[/quote]Unless the landlords are in the red every month for the same amount as their property taxes (after deductions are taken into account), then it’s the renters who are paying the property tax — through the landlord.
If the landlords are making a profit, then they are the ones getting something for free.[/quote]
Yes. I was going to say that. True the renters aren’t cutting a check directly to the bank/government. They are writing a check to the landlord and very likely some of that money goes to the bank/government, so indirectly, the renter is still paying for it.
Maybe we can change the laws where the landlord gets less rent and the renter gets the write-off while cutting a check to the bank/government.
The landlord is a third party.
Participant[quote=AN]Maybe you should read the reason why he’s anti-abortion: http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/abortion/.
Let me start off by saying, before I have kids, I was 100% pro choice and can’t understand why anyone would be pro life. What opened my eyes was going to the very first ultrasound and hearing the heart beat after 8 weeks. I now understand why many people are pro life. Although I’m still pro choice when it come to situation where the mother’s life is in danger, I’m now leaning toward pro life for your average abortion. The reason people are pro life is because they want to be the voice for those babies who are being killed.
Do you know Planned Parenthood don’t let the mother see the ultrasound screen and they turn off the volume? I know a NP who works there and she said if they let them see the screen and hear the heart beat, many would probably back out. I know I did when I saw the first ultrasound and hear the 1st heart beat. I still support Roe v Wade, but only for cases where it would kill the mother if the abortion wasn’t done. Ron Paul’s point is, Life > Liberty, which is why he’s against Roe v Wade.
My questions to Navydoc is, how many tomb stones can you point to of mothers that died because they didn’t have an abortion vs how many tomb stones you can point to of babies who were aborted who would have grown up to be healthy adults?
I always find it funny that those who are pro choice tend to be anti death penalty and those who are pro life tend to be pro death penalty.[/quote]
I am not saying that abortion is a good thing. I am saying abortion should be a decision made between doctors and patients b/c there are circumstances where it is required and the government should not have to intervene.
If you had a tumor, would have like to have it removed or go to the SC to ask for permission? I am not saying a fetus is a tumor, but just trying to make a comparison that some life or death situations should not have to involve the government.
The reason you no longer see tombstones you can point to of mothers that died because they didn’t have an abortion is b/c we are a developed society that allows it. Before doctors were allowed to perform abortions, there were many women who died while pregnant, and many more while attempting to deliver.
Having an abortion has to be the most traumatic thing a woman would ever have to experience. But at least there is still that option when required.
The government really has enough on its plate and personal health decisions should be done by individuals.
[quote=Navydoc]
And there are some people out there who are pro-choice and pro-death penalty. I consider the two concepts completely unrelated.[/quote]Agreed. Two entirely different issues.
[quote=CA renter]
The decision to get an abortion is never made lightly. It’s an extremely important and personal decision, and the government/politicians (and every other stranger) have absolutely no business trying to force their beliefs on people whose entire lives will be affected by these decisions.I’m grateful that I was never in a position to have to make this decision, and I’ve felt the awe and pure love as I sobbed my way through those miraculous ultrasounds, so I understand the powerful, emotional reasons behind the Right to Life movement. Still my beliefs are mine, and I do not have the right to force my beliefs on people I do not know, and who will have to suffer the consequences that I will not have to suffer if my will is imposed upon them.[/quote]
Thank you for better stating it.
Our own personal choice and what we would personally do should not be forced upon someone else, particularly on those w/medical issues that require terminating a pregnancy.
Back to the media ignoring RP. They did give him more media coverage the first time around.
Participant[quote=AN]Maybe you should read the reason why he’s anti-abortion: http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/abortion/.
Let me start off by saying, before I have kids, I was 100% pro choice and can’t understand why anyone would be pro life. What opened my eyes was going to the very first ultrasound and hearing the heart beat after 8 weeks. I now understand why many people are pro life. Although I’m still pro choice when it come to situation where the mother’s life is in danger, I’m now leaning toward pro life for your average abortion. The reason people are pro life is because they want to be the voice for those babies who are being killed.
Do you know Planned Parenthood don’t let the mother see the ultrasound screen and they turn off the volume? I know a NP who works there and she said if they let them see the screen and hear the heart beat, many would probably back out. I know I did when I saw the first ultrasound and hear the 1st heart beat. I still support Roe v Wade, but only for cases where it would kill the mother if the abortion wasn’t done. Ron Paul’s point is, Life > Liberty, which is why he’s against Roe v Wade.
My questions to Navydoc is, how many tomb stones can you point to of mothers that died because they didn’t have an abortion vs how many tomb stones you can point to of babies who were aborted who would have grown up to be healthy adults?
I always find it funny that those who are pro choice tend to be anti death penalty and those who are pro life tend to be pro death penalty.[/quote]
I am not saying that abortion is a good thing. I am saying abortion should be a decision made between doctors and patients b/c there are circumstances where it is required and the government should not have to intervene.
If you had a tumor, would have like to have it removed or go to the SC to ask for permission? I am not saying a fetus is a tumor, but just trying to make a comparison that some life or death situations should not have to involve the government.
The reason you no longer see tombstones you can point to of mothers that died because they didn’t have an abortion is b/c we are a developed society that allows it. Before doctors were allowed to perform abortions, there were many women who died while pregnant, and many more while attempting to deliver.
Having an abortion has to be the most traumatic thing a woman would ever have to experience. But at least there is still that option when required.
The government really has enough on its plate and personal health decisions should be done by individuals.
[quote=Navydoc]
And there are some people out there who are pro-choice and pro-death penalty. I consider the two concepts completely unrelated.[/quote]Agreed. Two entirely different issues.
[quote=CA renter]
The decision to get an abortion is never made lightly. It’s an extremely important and personal decision, and the government/politicians (and every other stranger) have absolutely no business trying to force their beliefs on people whose entire lives will be affected by these decisions.I’m grateful that I was never in a position to have to make this decision, and I’ve felt the awe and pure love as I sobbed my way through those miraculous ultrasounds, so I understand the powerful, emotional reasons behind the Right to Life movement. Still my beliefs are mine, and I do not have the right to force my beliefs on people I do not know, and who will have to suffer the consequences that I will not have to suffer if my will is imposed upon them.[/quote]
Thank you for better stating it.
Our own personal choice and what we would personally do should not be forced upon someone else, particularly on those w/medical issues that require terminating a pregnancy.
Back to the media ignoring RP. They did give him more media coverage the first time around.
Participant[quote=AN]Maybe you should read the reason why he’s anti-abortion: http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/abortion/.
Let me start off by saying, before I have kids, I was 100% pro choice and can’t understand why anyone would be pro life. What opened my eyes was going to the very first ultrasound and hearing the heart beat after 8 weeks. I now understand why many people are pro life. Although I’m still pro choice when it come to situation where the mother’s life is in danger, I’m now leaning toward pro life for your average abortion. The reason people are pro life is because they want to be the voice for those babies who are being killed.
Do you know Planned Parenthood don’t let the mother see the ultrasound screen and they turn off the volume? I know a NP who works there and she said if they let them see the screen and hear the heart beat, many would probably back out. I know I did when I saw the first ultrasound and hear the 1st heart beat. I still support Roe v Wade, but only for cases where it would kill the mother if the abortion wasn’t done. Ron Paul’s point is, Life > Liberty, which is why he’s against Roe v Wade.
My questions to Navydoc is, how many tomb stones can you point to of mothers that died because they didn’t have an abortion vs how many tomb stones you can point to of babies who were aborted who would have grown up to be healthy adults?
I always find it funny that those who are pro choice tend to be anti death penalty and those who are pro life tend to be pro death penalty.[/quote]
I am not saying that abortion is a good thing. I am saying abortion should be a decision made between doctors and patients b/c there are circumstances where it is required and the government should not have to intervene.
If you had a tumor, would have like to have it removed or go to the SC to ask for permission? I am not saying a fetus is a tumor, but just trying to make a comparison that some life or death situations should not have to involve the government.
The reason you no longer see tombstones you can point to of mothers that died because they didn’t have an abortion is b/c we are a developed society that allows it. Before doctors were allowed to perform abortions, there were many women who died while pregnant, and many more while attempting to deliver.
Having an abortion has to be the most traumatic thing a woman would ever have to experience. But at least there is still that option when required.
The government really has enough on its plate and personal health decisions should be done by individuals.
[quote=Navydoc]
And there are some people out there who are pro-choice and pro-death penalty. I consider the two concepts completely unrelated.[/quote]Agreed. Two entirely different issues.
[quote=CA renter]
The decision to get an abortion is never made lightly. It’s an extremely important and personal decision, and the government/politicians (and every other stranger) have absolutely no business trying to force their beliefs on people whose entire lives will be affected by these decisions.I’m grateful that I was never in a position to have to make this decision, and I’ve felt the awe and pure love as I sobbed my way through those miraculous ultrasounds, so I understand the powerful, emotional reasons behind the Right to Life movement. Still my beliefs are mine, and I do not have the right to force my beliefs on people I do not know, and who will have to suffer the consequences that I will not have to suffer if my will is imposed upon them.[/quote]
Thank you for better stating it.
Our own personal choice and what we would personally do should not be forced upon someone else, particularly on those w/medical issues that require terminating a pregnancy.
Back to the media ignoring RP. They did give him more media coverage the first time around.
Participant[quote=AN]Maybe you should read the reason why he’s anti-abortion: http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/abortion/.
Let me start off by saying, before I have kids, I was 100% pro choice and can’t understand why anyone would be pro life. What opened my eyes was going to the very first ultrasound and hearing the heart beat after 8 weeks. I now understand why many people are pro life. Although I’m still pro choice when it come to situation where the mother’s life is in danger, I’m now leaning toward pro life for your average abortion. The reason people are pro life is because they want to be the voice for those babies who are being killed.
Do you know Planned Parenthood don’t let the mother see the ultrasound screen and they turn off the volume? I know a NP who works there and she said if they let them see the screen and hear the heart beat, many would probably back out. I know I did when I saw the first ultrasound and hear the 1st heart beat. I still support Roe v Wade, but only for cases where it would kill the mother if the abortion wasn’t done. Ron Paul’s point is, Life > Liberty, which is why he’s against Roe v Wade.
My questions to Navydoc is, how many tomb stones can you point to of mothers that died because they didn’t have an abortion vs how many tomb stones you can point to of babies who were aborted who would have grown up to be healthy adults?
I always find it funny that those who are pro choice tend to be anti death penalty and those who are pro life tend to be pro death penalty.[/quote]
I am not saying that abortion is a good thing. I am saying abortion should be a decision made between doctors and patients b/c there are circumstances where it is required and the government should not have to intervene.
If you had a tumor, would have like to have it removed or go to the SC to ask for permission? I am not saying a fetus is a tumor, but just trying to make a comparison that some life or death situations should not have to involve the government.
The reason you no longer see tombstones you can point to of mothers that died because they didn’t have an abortion is b/c we are a developed society that allows it. Before doctors were allowed to perform abortions, there were many women who died while pregnant, and many more while attempting to deliver.
Having an abortion has to be the most traumatic thing a woman would ever have to experience. But at least there is still that option when required.
The government really has enough on its plate and personal health decisions should be done by individuals.
[quote=Navydoc]
And there are some people out there who are pro-choice and pro-death penalty. I consider the two concepts completely unrelated.[/quote]Agreed. Two entirely different issues.
[quote=CA renter]
The decision to get an abortion is never made lightly. It’s an extremely important and personal decision, and the government/politicians (and every other stranger) have absolutely no business trying to force their beliefs on people whose entire lives will be affected by these decisions.I’m grateful that I was never in a position to have to make this decision, and I’ve felt the awe and pure love as I sobbed my way through those miraculous ultrasounds, so I understand the powerful, emotional reasons behind the Right to Life movement. Still my beliefs are mine, and I do not have the right to force my beliefs on people I do not know, and who will have to suffer the consequences that I will not have to suffer if my will is imposed upon them.[/quote]
Thank you for better stating it.
Our own personal choice and what we would personally do should not be forced upon someone else, particularly on those w/medical issues that require terminating a pregnancy.
Back to the media ignoring RP. They did give him more media coverage the first time around.
Participant[quote=AN]Maybe you should read the reason why he’s anti-abortion: http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/abortion/.
Let me start off by saying, before I have kids, I was 100% pro choice and can’t understand why anyone would be pro life. What opened my eyes was going to the very first ultrasound and hearing the heart beat after 8 weeks. I now understand why many people are pro life. Although I’m still pro choice when it come to situation where the mother’s life is in danger, I’m now leaning toward pro life for your average abortion. The reason people are pro life is because they want to be the voice for those babies who are being killed.
Do you know Planned Parenthood don’t let the mother see the ultrasound screen and they turn off the volume? I know a NP who works there and she said if they let them see the screen and hear the heart beat, many would probably back out. I know I did when I saw the first ultrasound and hear the 1st heart beat. I still support Roe v Wade, but only for cases where it would kill the mother if the abortion wasn’t done. Ron Paul’s point is, Life > Liberty, which is why he’s against Roe v Wade.
My questions to Navydoc is, how many tomb stones can you point to of mothers that died because they didn’t have an abortion vs how many tomb stones you can point to of babies who were aborted who would have grown up to be healthy adults?
I always find it funny that those who are pro choice tend to be anti death penalty and those who are pro life tend to be pro death penalty.[/quote]
I am not saying that abortion is a good thing. I am saying abortion should be a decision made between doctors and patients b/c there are circumstances where it is required and the government should not have to intervene.
If you had a tumor, would have like to have it removed or go to the SC to ask for permission? I am not saying a fetus is a tumor, but just trying to make a comparison that some life or death situations should not have to involve the government.
The reason you no longer see tombstones you can point to of mothers that died because they didn’t have an abortion is b/c we are a developed society that allows it. Before doctors were allowed to perform abortions, there were many women who died while pregnant, and many more while attempting to deliver.
Having an abortion has to be the most traumatic thing a woman would ever have to experience. But at least there is still that option when required.
The government really has enough on its plate and personal health decisions should be done by individuals.
[quote=Navydoc]
And there are some people out there who are pro-choice and pro-death penalty. I consider the two concepts completely unrelated.[/quote]Agreed. Two entirely different issues.
[quote=CA renter]
The decision to get an abortion is never made lightly. It’s an extremely important and personal decision, and the government/politicians (and every other stranger) have absolutely no business trying to force their beliefs on people whose entire lives will be affected by these decisions.I’m grateful that I was never in a position to have to make this decision, and I’ve felt the awe and pure love as I sobbed my way through those miraculous ultrasounds, so I understand the powerful, emotional reasons behind the Right to Life movement. Still my beliefs are mine, and I do not have the right to force my beliefs on people I do not know, and who will have to suffer the consequences that I will not have to suffer if my will is imposed upon them.[/quote]
Thank you for better stating it.
Our own personal choice and what we would personally do should not be forced upon someone else, particularly on those w/medical issues that require terminating a pregnancy.
Back to the media ignoring RP. They did give him more media coverage the first time around.
Participant[quote=KIBU]Agreed that they want to cut the mortgage interest tax deduction.
But how are they going to do that without triggering another housing collapse which may trigger another recession???
For this, perhaps if we vote more tea party candidates into congress, they will follow thru with this. They are pretty good at cutting anything.[/quote]
They could at least eliminate it for people who own multiple properties. That wouldn’t trigger a housing collapse. It wouldn’t boost it. It would just drag things out more, but at the same time, the government would get money.
Participant[quote=KIBU]Agreed that they want to cut the mortgage interest tax deduction.
But how are they going to do that without triggering another housing collapse which may trigger another recession???
For this, perhaps if we vote more tea party candidates into congress, they will follow thru with this. They are pretty good at cutting anything.[/quote]
They could at least eliminate it for people who own multiple properties. That wouldn’t trigger a housing collapse. It wouldn’t boost it. It would just drag things out more, but at the same time, the government would get money.
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