[jeeman]

“BTW, our states are not going broke because of the unions. They are going broke because of the boom/bust policies of the Federal Reserve.”

CAR,

Actually, it was the policies of the Federal Reserve that helped us to realize what kind of untenable commitment we made as states. As Warren Buffett says, “you don’t know who is swimming naked until the tide goes back out”.

As income tax revenues declined, and people lost their jobs, and thus sales tax revenues declined, we have in place these hard budget promises of lavish pensions of over $1M/employee (not just teachers).

I see that as far as tax revenue, the natural business cycle went into a bust period, so you are correct there. But states are unable to be nimble because of the spending that the public unions are unwilling to cut.

And then they go on strike against their boss…which is you and me. They want blood from a stone.

[jeeman]

“BTW, our states are not going broke because of the unions. They are going broke because of the boom/bust policies of the Federal Reserve.”

CAR,

Actually, it was the policies of the Federal Reserve that helped us to realize what kind of untenable commitment we made as states. As Warren Buffett says, “you don’t know who is swimming naked until the tide goes back out”.

As income tax revenues declined, and people lost their jobs, and thus sales tax revenues declined, we have in place these hard budget promises of lavish pensions of over $1M/employee (not just teachers).

I see that as far as tax revenue, the natural business cycle went into a bust period, so you are correct there. But states are unable to be nimble because of the spending that the public unions are unwilling to cut.

And then they go on strike against their boss…which is you and me. They want blood from a stone.

[jeeman]

“BTW, our states are not going broke because of the unions. They are going broke because of the boom/bust policies of the Federal Reserve.”

CAR,

Actually, it was the policies of the Federal Reserve that helped us to realize what kind of untenable commitment we made as states. As Warren Buffett says, “you don’t know who is swimming naked until the tide goes back out”.

As income tax revenues declined, and people lost their jobs, and thus sales tax revenues declined, we have in place these hard budget promises of lavish pensions of over $1M/employee (not just teachers).

I see that as far as tax revenue, the natural business cycle went into a bust period, so you are correct there. But states are unable to be nimble because of the spending that the public unions are unwilling to cut.

And then they go on strike against their boss…which is you and me. They want blood from a stone.

[jeeman]

CA Renter,

It may be true that they don’t march every year or complain often, but it does make me roll my eyes when they speak in hyperbole that they are under-compensated and need more, and republicans want kids to be dumb, and that it is not fair that they have to pay into their own retirement. Well, sorry, teachers and unions…the rest of us do.

But I still don’t buy the argument that they are any more special than other professions. Most teachers that I know of went into teaching because they didn’t know what else to do, or they felt like they weren’t able to do other jobs.

If it is a specifically elevated position because they deal with children, then I feel bad for those who are “just stay-at-home-moms”. Somehow, they don’t get the same elevated privilege.

Again, not trying to demean teaching, but I am trying looking at it in a fair light. Maybe it is a hard “white-collar” job, but I can point to hundreds of professions that are much more demanding physically. Deep sea fishing is the most dangerous occupation, and they are feeding our country, but they get nothing.

Just like our President said in his state of the Union…teachers are “special” (to justify pay increases when the rest of us have pay freezes)…and then he talked about giving them more of our tax money to pay them higher salaries, which lead to bigger golden pensions and sweetheart deals for them. It just just spread out over their life, rather than given to them upfront, thus them feeling like they are underpaid.

It is a good debate to have, because our states are going bankrupt over these public employees’ golden parachutes.

[jeeman]

CA Renter,

It may be true that they don’t march every year or complain often, but it does make me roll my eyes when they speak in hyperbole that they are under-compensated and need more, and republicans want kids to be dumb, and that it is not fair that they have to pay into their own retirement. Well, sorry, teachers and unions…the rest of us do.

But I still don’t buy the argument that they are any more special than other professions. Most teachers that I know of went into teaching because they didn’t know what else to do, or they felt like they weren’t able to do other jobs.

If it is a specifically elevated position because they deal with children, then I feel bad for those who are “just stay-at-home-moms”. Somehow, they don’t get the same elevated privilege.

Again, not trying to demean teaching, but I am trying looking at it in a fair light. Maybe it is a hard “white-collar” job, but I can point to hundreds of professions that are much more demanding physically. Deep sea fishing is the most dangerous occupation, and they are feeding our country, but they get nothing.

Just like our President said in his state of the Union…teachers are “special” (to justify pay increases when the rest of us have pay freezes)…and then he talked about giving them more of our tax money to pay them higher salaries, which lead to bigger golden pensions and sweetheart deals for them. It just just spread out over their life, rather than given to them upfront, thus them feeling like they are underpaid.

It is a good debate to have, because our states are going bankrupt over these public employees’ golden parachutes.

[jeeman]

CA Renter,

It may be true that they don’t march every year or complain often, but it does make me roll my eyes when they speak in hyperbole that they are under-compensated and need more, and republicans want kids to be dumb, and that it is not fair that they have to pay into their own retirement. Well, sorry, teachers and unions…the rest of us do.

But I still don’t buy the argument that they are any more special than other professions. Most teachers that I know of went into teaching because they didn’t know what else to do, or they felt like they weren’t able to do other jobs.

If it is a specifically elevated position because they deal with children, then I feel bad for those who are “just stay-at-home-moms”. Somehow, they don’t get the same elevated privilege.

Again, not trying to demean teaching, but I am trying looking at it in a fair light. Maybe it is a hard “white-collar” job, but I can point to hundreds of professions that are much more demanding physically. Deep sea fishing is the most dangerous occupation, and they are feeding our country, but they get nothing.

Just like our President said in his state of the Union…teachers are “special” (to justify pay increases when the rest of us have pay freezes)…and then he talked about giving them more of our tax money to pay them higher salaries, which lead to bigger golden pensions and sweetheart deals for them. It just just spread out over their life, rather than given to them upfront, thus them feeling like they are underpaid.

It is a good debate to have, because our states are going bankrupt over these public employees’ golden parachutes.

[jeeman]

CA Renter,

It may be true that they don’t march every year or complain often, but it does make me roll my eyes when they speak in hyperbole that they are under-compensated and need more, and republicans want kids to be dumb, and that it is not fair that they have to pay into their own retirement. Well, sorry, teachers and unions…the rest of us do.

But I still don’t buy the argument that they are any more special than other professions. Most teachers that I know of went into teaching because they didn’t know what else to do, or they felt like they weren’t able to do other jobs.

If it is a specifically elevated position because they deal with children, then I feel bad for those who are “just stay-at-home-moms”. Somehow, they don’t get the same elevated privilege.

Again, not trying to demean teaching, but I am trying looking at it in a fair light. Maybe it is a hard “white-collar” job, but I can point to hundreds of professions that are much more demanding physically. Deep sea fishing is the most dangerous occupation, and they are feeding our country, but they get nothing.

Just like our President said in his state of the Union…teachers are “special” (to justify pay increases when the rest of us have pay freezes)…and then he talked about giving them more of our tax money to pay them higher salaries, which lead to bigger golden pensions and sweetheart deals for them. It just just spread out over their life, rather than given to them upfront, thus them feeling like they are underpaid.

It is a good debate to have, because our states are going bankrupt over these public employees’ golden parachutes.

[jeeman]

CA Renter,

It may be true that they don’t march every year or complain often, but it does make me roll my eyes when they speak in hyperbole that they are under-compensated and need more, and republicans want kids to be dumb, and that it is not fair that they have to pay into their own retirement. Well, sorry, teachers and unions…the rest of us do.

But I still don’t buy the argument that they are any more special than other professions. Most teachers that I know of went into teaching because they didn’t know what else to do, or they felt like they weren’t able to do other jobs.

If it is a specifically elevated position because they deal with children, then I feel bad for those who are “just stay-at-home-moms”. Somehow, they don’t get the same elevated privilege.

Again, not trying to demean teaching, but I am trying looking at it in a fair light. Maybe it is a hard “white-collar” job, but I can point to hundreds of professions that are much more demanding physically. Deep sea fishing is the most dangerous occupation, and they are feeding our country, but they get nothing.

Just like our President said in his state of the Union…teachers are “special” (to justify pay increases when the rest of us have pay freezes)…and then he talked about giving them more of our tax money to pay them higher salaries, which lead to bigger golden pensions and sweetheart deals for them. It just just spread out over their life, rather than given to them upfront, thus them feeling like they are underpaid.

It is a good debate to have, because our states are going bankrupt over these public employees’ golden parachutes.

[jeeman]

CA Renter,

No, I am not saying that they should be paid less, like $18k/year. But I don’t see the reason for them to be marching on an almost yearly basis complaining about being underpaid.

Let’s say that they are making $60k/year for 9 months of work. Then you take their future pension of $50k/year and assume they live to 70. 20 years of $50k/year is a $1 million retirement package. The average 50 year old has only $100k in retirement.

So take that $1M and divide it by the 25 years of work that they actually did, that’s an additional $40k/year over the years that they did work. This is a fair comparison, because they aren’t saving money into their pensions…the rest of us are saving into theirs and our own.

These are very rough numbers, but I’m just trying to show that teachers are making six figures for 9 months of work for 25 years worth of service.

Why exactly are they complaining again?

BTW…I never understood the idea that teaching is an elevated profession. It is the one profession that is elevated, but they don’t risk their lives. To me, it is just like any other profession, except for losers and failures can hide behind the protection of tenure and the unions.

[jeeman]

CA Renter,

No, I am not saying that they should be paid less, like $18k/year. But I don’t see the reason for them to be marching on an almost yearly basis complaining about being underpaid.

Let’s say that they are making $60k/year for 9 months of work. Then you take their future pension of $50k/year and assume they live to 70. 20 years of $50k/year is a $1 million retirement package. The average 50 year old has only $100k in retirement.

So take that $1M and divide it by the 25 years of work that they actually did, that’s an additional $40k/year over the years that they did work. This is a fair comparison, because they aren’t saving money into their pensions…the rest of us are saving into theirs and our own.

These are very rough numbers, but I’m just trying to show that teachers are making six figures for 9 months of work for 25 years worth of service.

Why exactly are they complaining again?

BTW…I never understood the idea that teaching is an elevated profession. It is the one profession that is elevated, but they don’t risk their lives. To me, it is just like any other profession, except for losers and failures can hide behind the protection of tenure and the unions.

[jeeman]

CA Renter,

No, I am not saying that they should be paid less, like $18k/year. But I don’t see the reason for them to be marching on an almost yearly basis complaining about being underpaid.

Let’s say that they are making $60k/year for 9 months of work. Then you take their future pension of $50k/year and assume they live to 70. 20 years of $50k/year is a $1 million retirement package. The average 50 year old has only $100k in retirement.

So take that $1M and divide it by the 25 years of work that they actually did, that’s an additional $40k/year over the years that they did work. This is a fair comparison, because they aren’t saving money into their pensions…the rest of us are saving into theirs and our own.

These are very rough numbers, but I’m just trying to show that teachers are making six figures for 9 months of work for 25 years worth of service.

Why exactly are they complaining again?

BTW…I never understood the idea that teaching is an elevated profession. It is the one profession that is elevated, but they don’t risk their lives. To me, it is just like any other profession, except for losers and failures can hide behind the protection of tenure and the unions.

[jeeman]

CA Renter,

No, I am not saying that they should be paid less, like $18k/year. But I don’t see the reason for them to be marching on an almost yearly basis complaining about being underpaid.

Let’s say that they are making $60k/year for 9 months of work. Then you take their future pension of $50k/year and assume they live to 70. 20 years of $50k/year is a $1 million retirement package. The average 50 year old has only $100k in retirement.

So take that $1M and divide it by the 25 years of work that they actually did, that’s an additional $40k/year over the years that they did work. This is a fair comparison, because they aren’t saving money into their pensions…the rest of us are saving into theirs and our own.

These are very rough numbers, but I’m just trying to show that teachers are making six figures for 9 months of work for 25 years worth of service.

Why exactly are they complaining again?

BTW…I never understood the idea that teaching is an elevated profession. It is the one profession that is elevated, but they don’t risk their lives. To me, it is just like any other profession, except for losers and failures can hide behind the protection of tenure and the unions.

[jeeman]

CA Renter,

No, I am not saying that they should be paid less, like $18k/year. But I don’t see the reason for them to be marching on an almost yearly basis complaining about being underpaid.

Let’s say that they are making $60k/year for 9 months of work. Then you take their future pension of $50k/year and assume they live to 70. 20 years of $50k/year is a $1 million retirement package. The average 50 year old has only $100k in retirement.

So take that $1M and divide it by the 25 years of work that they actually did, that’s an additional $40k/year over the years that they did work. This is a fair comparison, because they aren’t saving money into their pensions…the rest of us are saving into theirs and our own.

These are very rough numbers, but I’m just trying to show that teachers are making six figures for 9 months of work for 25 years worth of service.

Why exactly are they complaining again?

BTW…I never understood the idea that teaching is an elevated profession. It is the one profession that is elevated, but they don’t risk their lives. To me, it is just like any other profession, except for losers and failures can hide behind the protection of tenure and the unions.

[jeeman]

$80k normalized out to an entire year’s worth of work is a $106k/year rate. Not bad.

Then, they can “retire” at 50, and collect atleast $50k/year in pension. Then they can go get another job that pays $60k, which is the average private salary, and now they are “making” $110k/year.

It’s nuts that they think they are being underpaid…are they counting all that free pension money that they will get when they retire early? I think not. They are just looking at their current salary.

Private workers get no such golden parachute in their “golden” years.

[jeeman]

$80k normalized out to an entire year’s worth of work is a $106k/year rate. Not bad.

Then, they can “retire” at 50, and collect atleast $50k/year in pension. Then they can go get another job that pays $60k, which is the average private salary, and now they are “making” $110k/year.

It’s nuts that they think they are being underpaid…are they counting all that free pension money that they will get when they retire early? I think not. They are just looking at their current salary.

Private workers get no such golden parachute in their “golden” years.

[Author]

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