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DWCAP
Participant[quote=HLS]We aren’t dealing with too many people who think.
FHA is the new subprime. Without it, the houisng market would collapse.We are dealing with a society that has an entitlement attitude and thinks that their civil rights are violated if they can’t get a mortgage.
Greed and foolishness is rampant. People think they are looked down upon if they are a renter.The wise ones have been renters the last 5-6 years and have no money in the stock market. How UNAmerican is that ?
The recent move to “address risk” at FHA was if a credit score is below 580, you need 10% down. Above 580 3.50% down is still possible, and the seller can only contribute 3% of the sales price instead of 6%.
This is a very, very, sick situation.FHA is a crock, and should be killed. But then again, F/F are failed institutions in the most obvious way possible, and yet they are bigger than ever. Economics isnt the name of the game, politics is. Until the taxpayer bills come due no one will have the balls to do the right thing.
And people are looked down upon as a renter. They dont think they are. Now, they are obviously doing the right thing, and have been born out by 2008-now, but the mentality hasnt changed. I still hear friends say dumb things like ‘throwing away money on rent’ all the time.
ParticipantJust to add a few reasons, not really defenses, to my ‘slightly younger than dirt’ generations behavior.
1) I am guessing both eves. and UCGal are white. My mom talks about moving out of the house 2-3 days after HS, which was the first chance she got. It is definatly a cultural expectation, where as my GF (not white) ended up in a fight with her mom when she graduated from college because mom wanted her to move home. Same thing for two or three of my Latino friends. Different strokes for different folks one could say. Infact, a filipina co-worker couldnt get OUT of the house until she got married. Both families wouldnt have it. They are both 30 and just now getting married.
2) Income and job prospects for youth are dim and decreasing. HS dropouts use to be able to work flipping burgers or cleaning offices or whatever. But now there is a steady supply of HS grads looking for those jobs because their cashier jobs and such are being filled by college grads. Even the early 80’s recession didnt have the kind of labor stagnation that this one has. Unemployment under the age of 25 is like 20% right now. Itll only get worse too as all those kids hiding in unpaid internships or grad school start having to get real jobs.
3) Those shows only show the worst/dumbest/most watchable people. No one would watch the responsible 22 year old pulling up an excel file and figuring out ‘I will have to rent’. Every generation has its idiots, dont judge the whole one on the bad apples. You wouldnt judge every new mother on ‘octo-mom’ would you?
4) They are only doing what their baby-boomer parents taught them, and edged on by their ‘oh-so-trustworthy’ government/media. You can complain about their culture of expectations, but those expectations are older than they are.
ParticipantJust to add a few reasons, not really defenses, to my ‘slightly younger than dirt’ generations behavior.
1) I am guessing both eves. and UCGal are white. My mom talks about moving out of the house 2-3 days after HS, which was the first chance she got. It is definatly a cultural expectation, where as my GF (not white) ended up in a fight with her mom when she graduated from college because mom wanted her to move home. Same thing for two or three of my Latino friends. Different strokes for different folks one could say. Infact, a filipina co-worker couldnt get OUT of the house until she got married. Both families wouldnt have it. They are both 30 and just now getting married.
2) Income and job prospects for youth are dim and decreasing. HS dropouts use to be able to work flipping burgers or cleaning offices or whatever. But now there is a steady supply of HS grads looking for those jobs because their cashier jobs and such are being filled by college grads. Even the early 80’s recession didnt have the kind of labor stagnation that this one has. Unemployment under the age of 25 is like 20% right now. Itll only get worse too as all those kids hiding in unpaid internships or grad school start having to get real jobs.
3) Those shows only show the worst/dumbest/most watchable people. No one would watch the responsible 22 year old pulling up an excel file and figuring out ‘I will have to rent’. Every generation has its idiots, dont judge the whole one on the bad apples. You wouldnt judge every new mother on ‘octo-mom’ would you?
4) They are only doing what their baby-boomer parents taught them, and edged on by their ‘oh-so-trustworthy’ government/media. You can complain about their culture of expectations, but those expectations are older than they are.
ParticipantJust to add a few reasons, not really defenses, to my ‘slightly younger than dirt’ generations behavior.
1) I am guessing both eves. and UCGal are white. My mom talks about moving out of the house 2-3 days after HS, which was the first chance she got. It is definatly a cultural expectation, where as my GF (not white) ended up in a fight with her mom when she graduated from college because mom wanted her to move home. Same thing for two or three of my Latino friends. Different strokes for different folks one could say. Infact, a filipina co-worker couldnt get OUT of the house until she got married. Both families wouldnt have it. They are both 30 and just now getting married.
2) Income and job prospects for youth are dim and decreasing. HS dropouts use to be able to work flipping burgers or cleaning offices or whatever. But now there is a steady supply of HS grads looking for those jobs because their cashier jobs and such are being filled by college grads. Even the early 80’s recession didnt have the kind of labor stagnation that this one has. Unemployment under the age of 25 is like 20% right now. Itll only get worse too as all those kids hiding in unpaid internships or grad school start having to get real jobs.
3) Those shows only show the worst/dumbest/most watchable people. No one would watch the responsible 22 year old pulling up an excel file and figuring out ‘I will have to rent’. Every generation has its idiots, dont judge the whole one on the bad apples. You wouldnt judge every new mother on ‘octo-mom’ would you?
4) They are only doing what their baby-boomer parents taught them, and edged on by their ‘oh-so-trustworthy’ government/media. You can complain about their culture of expectations, but those expectations are older than they are.
ParticipantJust to add a few reasons, not really defenses, to my ‘slightly younger than dirt’ generations behavior.
1) I am guessing both eves. and UCGal are white. My mom talks about moving out of the house 2-3 days after HS, which was the first chance she got. It is definatly a cultural expectation, where as my GF (not white) ended up in a fight with her mom when she graduated from college because mom wanted her to move home. Same thing for two or three of my Latino friends. Different strokes for different folks one could say. Infact, a filipina co-worker couldnt get OUT of the house until she got married. Both families wouldnt have it. They are both 30 and just now getting married.
2) Income and job prospects for youth are dim and decreasing. HS dropouts use to be able to work flipping burgers or cleaning offices or whatever. But now there is a steady supply of HS grads looking for those jobs because their cashier jobs and such are being filled by college grads. Even the early 80’s recession didnt have the kind of labor stagnation that this one has. Unemployment under the age of 25 is like 20% right now. Itll only get worse too as all those kids hiding in unpaid internships or grad school start having to get real jobs.
3) Those shows only show the worst/dumbest/most watchable people. No one would watch the responsible 22 year old pulling up an excel file and figuring out ‘I will have to rent’. Every generation has its idiots, dont judge the whole one on the bad apples. You wouldnt judge every new mother on ‘octo-mom’ would you?
4) They are only doing what their baby-boomer parents taught them, and edged on by their ‘oh-so-trustworthy’ government/media. You can complain about their culture of expectations, but those expectations are older than they are.
ParticipantJust to add a few reasons, not really defenses, to my ‘slightly younger than dirt’ generations behavior.
1) I am guessing both eves. and UCGal are white. My mom talks about moving out of the house 2-3 days after HS, which was the first chance she got. It is definatly a cultural expectation, where as my GF (not white) ended up in a fight with her mom when she graduated from college because mom wanted her to move home. Same thing for two or three of my Latino friends. Different strokes for different folks one could say. Infact, a filipina co-worker couldnt get OUT of the house until she got married. Both families wouldnt have it. They are both 30 and just now getting married.
2) Income and job prospects for youth are dim and decreasing. HS dropouts use to be able to work flipping burgers or cleaning offices or whatever. But now there is a steady supply of HS grads looking for those jobs because their cashier jobs and such are being filled by college grads. Even the early 80’s recession didnt have the kind of labor stagnation that this one has. Unemployment under the age of 25 is like 20% right now. Itll only get worse too as all those kids hiding in unpaid internships or grad school start having to get real jobs.
3) Those shows only show the worst/dumbest/most watchable people. No one would watch the responsible 22 year old pulling up an excel file and figuring out ‘I will have to rent’. Every generation has its idiots, dont judge the whole one on the bad apples. You wouldnt judge every new mother on ‘octo-mom’ would you?
4) They are only doing what their baby-boomer parents taught them, and edged on by their ‘oh-so-trustworthy’ government/media. You can complain about their culture of expectations, but those expectations are older than they are.
Participant[quote=FormerSanDiegan]I don’t think it matters what agent you use.I doubt the seller would accept your offer, anyway.
You are like the young, beautiful bride who left them at the altar, then came back 20 pounds heavier and wanted to get married. Why would they agree to get married to you now ? You are less desirable and already dumped them once.[/quote]
Couldnt he form a LLC and never disclose who he is to the buyer?
Participant[quote=FormerSanDiegan]I don’t think it matters what agent you use.I doubt the seller would accept your offer, anyway.
You are like the young, beautiful bride who left them at the altar, then came back 20 pounds heavier and wanted to get married. Why would they agree to get married to you now ? You are less desirable and already dumped them once.[/quote]
Couldnt he form a LLC and never disclose who he is to the buyer?
Participant[quote=FormerSanDiegan]I don’t think it matters what agent you use.I doubt the seller would accept your offer, anyway.
You are like the young, beautiful bride who left them at the altar, then came back 20 pounds heavier and wanted to get married. Why would they agree to get married to you now ? You are less desirable and already dumped them once.[/quote]
Couldnt he form a LLC and never disclose who he is to the buyer?
Participant[quote=FormerSanDiegan]I don’t think it matters what agent you use.I doubt the seller would accept your offer, anyway.
You are like the young, beautiful bride who left them at the altar, then came back 20 pounds heavier and wanted to get married. Why would they agree to get married to you now ? You are less desirable and already dumped them once.[/quote]
Couldnt he form a LLC and never disclose who he is to the buyer?
Participant[quote=FormerSanDiegan]I don’t think it matters what agent you use.I doubt the seller would accept your offer, anyway.
You are like the young, beautiful bride who left them at the altar, then came back 20 pounds heavier and wanted to get married. Why would they agree to get married to you now ? You are less desirable and already dumped them once.[/quote]
Couldnt he form a LLC and never disclose who he is to the buyer?
Participant[quote=FormerSanDiegan]
The law of unintended consequences applies here.
It’e never as simple as “hey here’s a 20K tax loophole, let’s close it and get $20K in additional revenue”. It never works out that way.[/quote]I agree with your central premiss that it is not a 1 for 1 reduction. That people will make changes to reduce their tax burden, which will distort the amount of money coming into the government coffers.
But I also think you are missing some of the counter point subtitlies.
1) yes, consumption will decrease for current households that pay the extra costs. However, lower housing prices will make housing a smaller part of monthly outlays of new households, increasing the amount of money available for future consumption from new households. It may take a few years to make up the difference, but new households generally consume more than older ones.
2) There are many many tax breaks, and people will shift around to take advantage of other breaks. The idea that ending this will result in a 19000 loss to the average tax bill (in this sinario) isnt totally true either. (Perhaps cheritable giving would rise, and that has social and economic advantages too.)
3) Your assumption about people renting out their place and then renting another confuses me. In your example of the wealthier subset, 800k loan on a ~1million+ property with 250k income results in a monthly ‘loss’ of about 1600/month. But what is renting in that subset? Most Million dollar houses I imagine are renting in the 6-8k per month catagory in san diego. But a loan on 800k at 5.5% is only about 4500/month. So they are gonna pay say 6k in rent costs, to make 6k in rent, which they have to pay income taxes on? That extra income tax would eat up alot of the extra ‘savings’ by renting, plus add in the hassels and costs of being BOTH a renter and a LL.
4)Imagine two months were you are still a renter, but dont have a tenant. Kiss your ‘savings’ goodbye.
I am not convinced the majority of people making this kinda money are going to do what you propose. Maybe there would be a small savings there, but isnt is always bantered about that a small ‘ownership premium’ is a small price to pay?
So, in the end I think it would be a net advantage to the Federal government, and a near cost neutral one to states, as lower property taxes are meet with generally increasing sales tax income; in the long run. For people already stuck with high housing interest, they may be SOL.
Participant[quote=FormerSanDiegan]
The law of unintended consequences applies here.
It’e never as simple as “hey here’s a 20K tax loophole, let’s close it and get $20K in additional revenue”. It never works out that way.[/quote]I agree with your central premiss that it is not a 1 for 1 reduction. That people will make changes to reduce their tax burden, which will distort the amount of money coming into the government coffers.
But I also think you are missing some of the counter point subtitlies.
1) yes, consumption will decrease for current households that pay the extra costs. However, lower housing prices will make housing a smaller part of monthly outlays of new households, increasing the amount of money available for future consumption from new households. It may take a few years to make up the difference, but new households generally consume more than older ones.
2) There are many many tax breaks, and people will shift around to take advantage of other breaks. The idea that ending this will result in a 19000 loss to the average tax bill (in this sinario) isnt totally true either. (Perhaps cheritable giving would rise, and that has social and economic advantages too.)
3) Your assumption about people renting out their place and then renting another confuses me. In your example of the wealthier subset, 800k loan on a ~1million+ property with 250k income results in a monthly ‘loss’ of about 1600/month. But what is renting in that subset? Most Million dollar houses I imagine are renting in the 6-8k per month catagory in san diego. But a loan on 800k at 5.5% is only about 4500/month. So they are gonna pay say 6k in rent costs, to make 6k in rent, which they have to pay income taxes on? That extra income tax would eat up alot of the extra ‘savings’ by renting, plus add in the hassels and costs of being BOTH a renter and a LL.
4)Imagine two months were you are still a renter, but dont have a tenant. Kiss your ‘savings’ goodbye.
I am not convinced the majority of people making this kinda money are going to do what you propose. Maybe there would be a small savings there, but isnt is always bantered about that a small ‘ownership premium’ is a small price to pay?
So, in the end I think it would be a net advantage to the Federal government, and a near cost neutral one to states, as lower property taxes are meet with generally increasing sales tax income; in the long run. For people already stuck with high housing interest, they may be SOL.
Participant[quote=FormerSanDiegan]
The law of unintended consequences applies here.
It’e never as simple as “hey here’s a 20K tax loophole, let’s close it and get $20K in additional revenue”. It never works out that way.[/quote]I agree with your central premiss that it is not a 1 for 1 reduction. That people will make changes to reduce their tax burden, which will distort the amount of money coming into the government coffers.
But I also think you are missing some of the counter point subtitlies.
1) yes, consumption will decrease for current households that pay the extra costs. However, lower housing prices will make housing a smaller part of monthly outlays of new households, increasing the amount of money available for future consumption from new households. It may take a few years to make up the difference, but new households generally consume more than older ones.
2) There are many many tax breaks, and people will shift around to take advantage of other breaks. The idea that ending this will result in a 19000 loss to the average tax bill (in this sinario) isnt totally true either. (Perhaps cheritable giving would rise, and that has social and economic advantages too.)
3) Your assumption about people renting out their place and then renting another confuses me. In your example of the wealthier subset, 800k loan on a ~1million+ property with 250k income results in a monthly ‘loss’ of about 1600/month. But what is renting in that subset? Most Million dollar houses I imagine are renting in the 6-8k per month catagory in san diego. But a loan on 800k at 5.5% is only about 4500/month. So they are gonna pay say 6k in rent costs, to make 6k in rent, which they have to pay income taxes on? That extra income tax would eat up alot of the extra ‘savings’ by renting, plus add in the hassels and costs of being BOTH a renter and a LL.
4)Imagine two months were you are still a renter, but dont have a tenant. Kiss your ‘savings’ goodbye.
I am not convinced the majority of people making this kinda money are going to do what you propose. Maybe there would be a small savings there, but isnt is always bantered about that a small ‘ownership premium’ is a small price to pay?
So, in the end I think it would be a net advantage to the Federal government, and a near cost neutral one to states, as lower property taxes are meet with generally increasing sales tax income; in the long run. For people already stuck with high housing interest, they may be SOL.
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