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March 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM in reply to: How do lenders deal with houses with un-permitted additions #373864March 26, 2009 at 2:59 PM in reply to: How do lenders deal with houses with un-permitted additions #373981
drboom
Participant[quote=HLS]Dr Boom,,, BZZT right back at you.
What do you think that “current supply and demand is” ??
[/quote]Congratulations, you managed to address one out of seven criteria.
[quote=HLS]I don’t know where you fall into the mix, are you in the mortgage/real estate/appraisal business ?[/quote]
I’m a taxpayer, among other things. That gives me a dog in this fight. Further, my judgment appears to be better than most of the industry “experts” since I called this one long before it peaked–and I said why, as anyone with a shred of common sense could have done.
[quote=HLS]Reporting what previous transactions were is exactly how valuations are done in both a rising and falling market.
What you call a “clear violation” is them doing their job… BZZZT BZZZT[/quote]
No, reread what I wrote in the last sentence. I think I was pretty clear, but if you’re having trouble understanding, let me know.
March 26, 2009 at 2:02 PM in reply to: How do lenders deal with houses with un-permitted additions #373337Participant[quote=HLS]Your anger is justified, but misplaced.
An appraisers job isn’t to give their opinion about a shack in da hood, it’s to report what the previous fool paid.[/quote]Bzzzt, sorry … no.
Here’s what the FHA has to say in their appraiser’s handbook:
D. ECONOMIC TRENDS
The appraiser must give consideration to, and include in the value analysis, the economic trends of a neighborhood and the general area, including:- price and wage levels (the purchasing power of community occupants)
- employment characteristics
- the current supply and demand for residential dwellings, including projects under construction
- taxation levels
- building costs
- population changes
- activity of real estate sales market and mortgage
interest rates
No, the FHA isn’t the whole market. But I doubt they are out of step with prevailing (and mostly theoretical) professional standards.
I agree with you that in practice appraisers try to find whatever comps will support the desired value, but to just “report what the previous fool paid” is a clear violation of professional standards and ought to result in loss of license.
March 26, 2009 at 2:02 PM in reply to: How do lenders deal with houses with un-permitted additions #373617Participant[quote=HLS]Your anger is justified, but misplaced.
An appraisers job isn’t to give their opinion about a shack in da hood, it’s to report what the previous fool paid.[/quote]Bzzzt, sorry … no.
Here’s what the FHA has to say in their appraiser’s handbook:
D. ECONOMIC TRENDS
The appraiser must give consideration to, and include in the value analysis, the economic trends of a neighborhood and the general area, including:- price and wage levels (the purchasing power of community occupants)
- employment characteristics
- the current supply and demand for residential dwellings, including projects under construction
- taxation levels
- building costs
- population changes
- activity of real estate sales market and mortgage
interest rates
No, the FHA isn’t the whole market. But I doubt they are out of step with prevailing (and mostly theoretical) professional standards.
I agree with you that in practice appraisers try to find whatever comps will support the desired value, but to just “report what the previous fool paid” is a clear violation of professional standards and ought to result in loss of license.
March 26, 2009 at 2:02 PM in reply to: How do lenders deal with houses with un-permitted additions #373791Participant[quote=HLS]Your anger is justified, but misplaced.
An appraisers job isn’t to give their opinion about a shack in da hood, it’s to report what the previous fool paid.[/quote]Bzzzt, sorry … no.
Here’s what the FHA has to say in their appraiser’s handbook:
D. ECONOMIC TRENDS
The appraiser must give consideration to, and include in the value analysis, the economic trends of a neighborhood and the general area, including:- price and wage levels (the purchasing power of community occupants)
- employment characteristics
- the current supply and demand for residential dwellings, including projects under construction
- taxation levels
- building costs
- population changes
- activity of real estate sales market and mortgage
interest rates
No, the FHA isn’t the whole market. But I doubt they are out of step with prevailing (and mostly theoretical) professional standards.
I agree with you that in practice appraisers try to find whatever comps will support the desired value, but to just “report what the previous fool paid” is a clear violation of professional standards and ought to result in loss of license.
March 26, 2009 at 2:02 PM in reply to: How do lenders deal with houses with un-permitted additions #373834Participant[quote=HLS]Your anger is justified, but misplaced.
An appraisers job isn’t to give their opinion about a shack in da hood, it’s to report what the previous fool paid.[/quote]Bzzzt, sorry … no.
Here’s what the FHA has to say in their appraiser’s handbook:
D. ECONOMIC TRENDS
The appraiser must give consideration to, and include in the value analysis, the economic trends of a neighborhood and the general area, including:- price and wage levels (the purchasing power of community occupants)
- employment characteristics
- the current supply and demand for residential dwellings, including projects under construction
- taxation levels
- building costs
- population changes
- activity of real estate sales market and mortgage
interest rates
No, the FHA isn’t the whole market. But I doubt they are out of step with prevailing (and mostly theoretical) professional standards.
I agree with you that in practice appraisers try to find whatever comps will support the desired value, but to just “report what the previous fool paid” is a clear violation of professional standards and ought to result in loss of license.
March 26, 2009 at 2:02 PM in reply to: How do lenders deal with houses with un-permitted additions #373951Participant[quote=HLS]Your anger is justified, but misplaced.
An appraisers job isn’t to give their opinion about a shack in da hood, it’s to report what the previous fool paid.[/quote]Bzzzt, sorry … no.
Here’s what the FHA has to say in their appraiser’s handbook:
D. ECONOMIC TRENDS
The appraiser must give consideration to, and include in the value analysis, the economic trends of a neighborhood and the general area, including:- price and wage levels (the purchasing power of community occupants)
- employment characteristics
- the current supply and demand for residential dwellings, including projects under construction
- taxation levels
- building costs
- population changes
- activity of real estate sales market and mortgage
interest rates
No, the FHA isn’t the whole market. But I doubt they are out of step with prevailing (and mostly theoretical) professional standards.
I agree with you that in practice appraisers try to find whatever comps will support the desired value, but to just “report what the previous fool paid” is a clear violation of professional standards and ought to result in loss of license.
March 26, 2009 at 12:29 PM in reply to: How do lenders deal with houses with un-permitted additions #373292Participant[quote=HLS]
The change in appraisals is saying that appraisers were responsible for the housing mess. There is only a sliver of truth in that. A dishonest appraiser is still dishonest.
[/quote]Face it, the whole appraisal “industry” is dishonest, else we would never have seen the ridiculous valuations of the recent past. Anyone with an ounce of sense could see that no matter what someone was willing to pay, and no matter what some damnfool bank was willing foist off on the MBS “investors”, a 1,000sf 3/1 shack in Da Hood isn’t worth almost a half million dollars.
The lenders needed someone to put a fig leaf over their obvious disregard for underwriting standards, and the appraisers were only too happy to oblige.
[quote=HLS]This will ruin the careers and incomes of honest appraisers. If an appraiser has been in business for 10-20 years and has dozens of banks or brokers sending them business, that stops completely on May 1st…
An appraiser with 8 employees recently told me that he is done, and 8 appraisers will be out of work. He will not get enough orders to keep them busy.[/quote]
It’s sad when times change, true. But ask your friend how much responsibility he bears for this mess. How many tumbledown shacks in the barrio did he swear were worth a third of a million bucks? How often did he or his employees have a target number to hit? How many times did he turn a blind eye to obvious structural problems? How many times did he cherry-pick comps to hit his number? If he was in the game during the boom, I’m sure all that and more was going on because no one would have sent him business otherwise.
Now, I’m not saying the upcoming changes will improve matters. But I am saying that the appraisers have been key players in this debacle and they’ve gone down that road willingly.
March 26, 2009 at 12:29 PM in reply to: How do lenders deal with houses with un-permitted additions #373573Participant[quote=HLS]
The change in appraisals is saying that appraisers were responsible for the housing mess. There is only a sliver of truth in that. A dishonest appraiser is still dishonest.
[/quote]Face it, the whole appraisal “industry” is dishonest, else we would never have seen the ridiculous valuations of the recent past. Anyone with an ounce of sense could see that no matter what someone was willing to pay, and no matter what some damnfool bank was willing foist off on the MBS “investors”, a 1,000sf 3/1 shack in Da Hood isn’t worth almost a half million dollars.
The lenders needed someone to put a fig leaf over their obvious disregard for underwriting standards, and the appraisers were only too happy to oblige.
[quote=HLS]This will ruin the careers and incomes of honest appraisers. If an appraiser has been in business for 10-20 years and has dozens of banks or brokers sending them business, that stops completely on May 1st…
An appraiser with 8 employees recently told me that he is done, and 8 appraisers will be out of work. He will not get enough orders to keep them busy.[/quote]
It’s sad when times change, true. But ask your friend how much responsibility he bears for this mess. How many tumbledown shacks in the barrio did he swear were worth a third of a million bucks? How often did he or his employees have a target number to hit? How many times did he turn a blind eye to obvious structural problems? How many times did he cherry-pick comps to hit his number? If he was in the game during the boom, I’m sure all that and more was going on because no one would have sent him business otherwise.
Now, I’m not saying the upcoming changes will improve matters. But I am saying that the appraisers have been key players in this debacle and they’ve gone down that road willingly.
March 26, 2009 at 12:29 PM in reply to: How do lenders deal with houses with un-permitted additions #373747Participant[quote=HLS]
The change in appraisals is saying that appraisers were responsible for the housing mess. There is only a sliver of truth in that. A dishonest appraiser is still dishonest.
[/quote]Face it, the whole appraisal “industry” is dishonest, else we would never have seen the ridiculous valuations of the recent past. Anyone with an ounce of sense could see that no matter what someone was willing to pay, and no matter what some damnfool bank was willing foist off on the MBS “investors”, a 1,000sf 3/1 shack in Da Hood isn’t worth almost a half million dollars.
The lenders needed someone to put a fig leaf over their obvious disregard for underwriting standards, and the appraisers were only too happy to oblige.
[quote=HLS]This will ruin the careers and incomes of honest appraisers. If an appraiser has been in business for 10-20 years and has dozens of banks or brokers sending them business, that stops completely on May 1st…
An appraiser with 8 employees recently told me that he is done, and 8 appraisers will be out of work. He will not get enough orders to keep them busy.[/quote]
It’s sad when times change, true. But ask your friend how much responsibility he bears for this mess. How many tumbledown shacks in the barrio did he swear were worth a third of a million bucks? How often did he or his employees have a target number to hit? How many times did he turn a blind eye to obvious structural problems? How many times did he cherry-pick comps to hit his number? If he was in the game during the boom, I’m sure all that and more was going on because no one would have sent him business otherwise.
Now, I’m not saying the upcoming changes will improve matters. But I am saying that the appraisers have been key players in this debacle and they’ve gone down that road willingly.
March 26, 2009 at 12:29 PM in reply to: How do lenders deal with houses with un-permitted additions #373789Participant[quote=HLS]
The change in appraisals is saying that appraisers were responsible for the housing mess. There is only a sliver of truth in that. A dishonest appraiser is still dishonest.
[/quote]Face it, the whole appraisal “industry” is dishonest, else we would never have seen the ridiculous valuations of the recent past. Anyone with an ounce of sense could see that no matter what someone was willing to pay, and no matter what some damnfool bank was willing foist off on the MBS “investors”, a 1,000sf 3/1 shack in Da Hood isn’t worth almost a half million dollars.
The lenders needed someone to put a fig leaf over their obvious disregard for underwriting standards, and the appraisers were only too happy to oblige.
[quote=HLS]This will ruin the careers and incomes of honest appraisers. If an appraiser has been in business for 10-20 years and has dozens of banks or brokers sending them business, that stops completely on May 1st…
An appraiser with 8 employees recently told me that he is done, and 8 appraisers will be out of work. He will not get enough orders to keep them busy.[/quote]
It’s sad when times change, true. But ask your friend how much responsibility he bears for this mess. How many tumbledown shacks in the barrio did he swear were worth a third of a million bucks? How often did he or his employees have a target number to hit? How many times did he turn a blind eye to obvious structural problems? How many times did he cherry-pick comps to hit his number? If he was in the game during the boom, I’m sure all that and more was going on because no one would have sent him business otherwise.
Now, I’m not saying the upcoming changes will improve matters. But I am saying that the appraisers have been key players in this debacle and they’ve gone down that road willingly.
March 26, 2009 at 12:29 PM in reply to: How do lenders deal with houses with un-permitted additions #373906Participant[quote=HLS]
The change in appraisals is saying that appraisers were responsible for the housing mess. There is only a sliver of truth in that. A dishonest appraiser is still dishonest.
[/quote]Face it, the whole appraisal “industry” is dishonest, else we would never have seen the ridiculous valuations of the recent past. Anyone with an ounce of sense could see that no matter what someone was willing to pay, and no matter what some damnfool bank was willing foist off on the MBS “investors”, a 1,000sf 3/1 shack in Da Hood isn’t worth almost a half million dollars.
The lenders needed someone to put a fig leaf over their obvious disregard for underwriting standards, and the appraisers were only too happy to oblige.
[quote=HLS]This will ruin the careers and incomes of honest appraisers. If an appraiser has been in business for 10-20 years and has dozens of banks or brokers sending them business, that stops completely on May 1st…
An appraiser with 8 employees recently told me that he is done, and 8 appraisers will be out of work. He will not get enough orders to keep them busy.[/quote]
It’s sad when times change, true. But ask your friend how much responsibility he bears for this mess. How many tumbledown shacks in the barrio did he swear were worth a third of a million bucks? How often did he or his employees have a target number to hit? How many times did he turn a blind eye to obvious structural problems? How many times did he cherry-pick comps to hit his number? If he was in the game during the boom, I’m sure all that and more was going on because no one would have sent him business otherwise.
Now, I’m not saying the upcoming changes will improve matters. But I am saying that the appraisers have been key players in this debacle and they’ve gone down that road willingly.
March 26, 2009 at 10:06 AM in reply to: How do lenders deal with houses with un-permitted additions #373539Participant[quote=AN]HLS, what’s happening on May 1st?[/quote]
The NY Times has a writeup here.
March 26, 2009 at 10:06 AM in reply to: How do lenders deal with houses with un-permitted additions #373711Participant[quote=AN]HLS, what’s happening on May 1st?[/quote]
The NY Times has a writeup here.
March 26, 2009 at 10:06 AM in reply to: How do lenders deal with houses with un-permitted additions #373754 -
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