[Coronita]

Negotiate, my friend…if the company is growing as rapidly as you say, they should be interested in negotiating, particularly if you play the sob story about how your fiance is in college, you can't afford a house yet, and your fiance desperately wants to get pregnant. With a little luck you can equalize the salary plus get some options.

The whole scenario seems a bit odd to me. I can see a sales manager being bonus dependent based on performance, but for the manager to take that kind of a cut purely on the option opportunity seems to be a bit much.

Stan

Speaking from experience. The sob stories that people use to tell me at companies didn't really do it. The ones that came to me and told me what they brought to the table and what it would be like if they weren't there did work though, provided those people really did walk the talk so to speak. You do have to be tactful in saying this. But companies aren't usually sympathetic with people that just ask for a raise for because of some sob story. Just my opinion. 

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Negotiate, my friend…if the company is growing as rapidly as you say, they should be interested in negotiating, particularly if you play the sob story about how your fiance is in college, you can't afford a house yet, and your fiance desperately wants to get pregnant. With a little luck you can equalize the salary plus get some options.

The whole scenario seems a bit odd to me. I can see a sales manager being bonus dependent based on performance, but for the manager to take that kind of a cut purely on the option opportunity seems to be a bit much.

Stan

Speaking from experience. The sob stories that people use to tell me at companies didn't really do it. The ones that came to me and told me what they brought to the table and what it would be like if they weren't there did work though, provided those people really did walk the talk so to speak. You do have to be tactful in saying this. But companies aren't usually sympathetic with people that just ask for a raise for because of some sob story. Just my opinion. 

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Negotiate, my friend…if the company is growing as rapidly as you say, they should be interested in negotiating, particularly if you play the sob story about how your fiance is in college, you can't afford a house yet, and your fiance desperately wants to get pregnant. With a little luck you can equalize the salary plus get some options.

The whole scenario seems a bit odd to me. I can see a sales manager being bonus dependent based on performance, but for the manager to take that kind of a cut purely on the option opportunity seems to be a bit much.

Stan

Speaking from experience. The sob stories that people use to tell me at companies didn't really do it. The ones that came to me and told me what they brought to the table and what it would be like if they weren't there did work though, provided those people really did walk the talk so to speak. You do have to be tactful in saying this. But companies aren't usually sympathetic with people that just ask for a raise for because of some sob story. Just my opinion. 

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Negotiate, my friend…if the company is growing as rapidly as you say, they should be interested in negotiating, particularly if you play the sob story about how your fiance is in college, you can't afford a house yet, and your fiance desperately wants to get pregnant. With a little luck you can equalize the salary plus get some options.

The whole scenario seems a bit odd to me. I can see a sales manager being bonus dependent based on performance, but for the manager to take that kind of a cut purely on the option opportunity seems to be a bit much.

Stan

Speaking from experience. The sob stories that people use to tell me at companies didn't really do it. The ones that came to me and told me what they brought to the table and what it would be like if they weren't there did work though, provided those people really did walk the talk so to speak. You do have to be tactful in saying this. But companies aren't usually sympathetic with people that just ask for a raise for because of some sob story. Just my opinion. 

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Negotiate, my friend…if the company is growing as rapidly as you say, they should be interested in negotiating, particularly if you play the sob story about how your fiance is in college, you can't afford a house yet, and your fiance desperately wants to get pregnant. With a little luck you can equalize the salary plus get some options.

The whole scenario seems a bit odd to me. I can see a sales manager being bonus dependent based on performance, but for the manager to take that kind of a cut purely on the option opportunity seems to be a bit much.

Stan

Speaking from experience. The sob stories that people use to tell me at companies didn't really do it. The ones that came to me and told me what they brought to the table and what it would be like if they weren't there did work though, provided those people really did walk the talk so to speak. You do have to be tactful in saying this. But companies aren't usually sympathetic with people that just ask for a raise for because of some sob story. Just my opinion. 

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Actually, I do find your thoughts useful, flu. Along with the other postings, and my own caution and predisposition prior to originating this thread, I'm getting more convinced that management might be a bad move for me.

I can't increase my salary in my current position though, regardless of how good I get. I've maxed out the pay scale. I can hang out and milk the OT at the end of the day while surfing the net and whining about my work dilemma, though.

What I'd prefer to do all day at work–manage or sell–isn't much of a factor. I'm all about the money. For what it's worth, I'd prefer the change of pace and new challenges that would come with management, but I work for money, not for new challenges and whatnot. I don't hate my sales job and that's all I really expect.

 

If your bonus is tied to how much you bring in, make a case to get put on the biggest accounts. In addition to the "money", you will be definitely challenged, as you will find bringing in the big fish is not that easy. If you master this, you will have skills that you can take wherever you go, in whatever industry….Again, you sound like you're a young dude, so you got a long way to go. If you're good at what you do, I frankly would be disappointed in you if you're not seeing $250k+ in the future because you decided to take a detour (again if money is that important to you). Sales people frankly make more then engineers and in many cases job blow line manager. It's harder to be a good sales person than an average engineer or average manager…though average sales people usually get paid crap and get flushed by the company if they don't meet their quotas….Again, not everyone can be a good salesman. It takes a certain personality to do it.

 

 

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Actually, I do find your thoughts useful, flu. Along with the other postings, and my own caution and predisposition prior to originating this thread, I'm getting more convinced that management might be a bad move for me.

I can't increase my salary in my current position though, regardless of how good I get. I've maxed out the pay scale. I can hang out and milk the OT at the end of the day while surfing the net and whining about my work dilemma, though.

What I'd prefer to do all day at work–manage or sell–isn't much of a factor. I'm all about the money. For what it's worth, I'd prefer the change of pace and new challenges that would come with management, but I work for money, not for new challenges and whatnot. I don't hate my sales job and that's all I really expect.

 

If your bonus is tied to how much you bring in, make a case to get put on the biggest accounts. In addition to the "money", you will be definitely challenged, as you will find bringing in the big fish is not that easy. If you master this, you will have skills that you can take wherever you go, in whatever industry….Again, you sound like you're a young dude, so you got a long way to go. If you're good at what you do, I frankly would be disappointed in you if you're not seeing $250k+ in the future because you decided to take a detour (again if money is that important to you). Sales people frankly make more then engineers and in many cases job blow line manager. It's harder to be a good sales person than an average engineer or average manager…though average sales people usually get paid crap and get flushed by the company if they don't meet their quotas….Again, not everyone can be a good salesman. It takes a certain personality to do it.

 

 

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Actually, I do find your thoughts useful, flu. Along with the other postings, and my own caution and predisposition prior to originating this thread, I'm getting more convinced that management might be a bad move for me.

I can't increase my salary in my current position though, regardless of how good I get. I've maxed out the pay scale. I can hang out and milk the OT at the end of the day while surfing the net and whining about my work dilemma, though.

What I'd prefer to do all day at work–manage or sell–isn't much of a factor. I'm all about the money. For what it's worth, I'd prefer the change of pace and new challenges that would come with management, but I work for money, not for new challenges and whatnot. I don't hate my sales job and that's all I really expect.

 

If your bonus is tied to how much you bring in, make a case to get put on the biggest accounts. In addition to the "money", you will be definitely challenged, as you will find bringing in the big fish is not that easy. If you master this, you will have skills that you can take wherever you go, in whatever industry….Again, you sound like you're a young dude, so you got a long way to go. If you're good at what you do, I frankly would be disappointed in you if you're not seeing $250k+ in the future because you decided to take a detour (again if money is that important to you). Sales people frankly make more then engineers and in many cases job blow line manager. It's harder to be a good sales person than an average engineer or average manager…though average sales people usually get paid crap and get flushed by the company if they don't meet their quotas….Again, not everyone can be a good salesman. It takes a certain personality to do it.

 

 

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Actually, I do find your thoughts useful, flu. Along with the other postings, and my own caution and predisposition prior to originating this thread, I'm getting more convinced that management might be a bad move for me.

I can't increase my salary in my current position though, regardless of how good I get. I've maxed out the pay scale. I can hang out and milk the OT at the end of the day while surfing the net and whining about my work dilemma, though.

What I'd prefer to do all day at work–manage or sell–isn't much of a factor. I'm all about the money. For what it's worth, I'd prefer the change of pace and new challenges that would come with management, but I work for money, not for new challenges and whatnot. I don't hate my sales job and that's all I really expect.

 

If your bonus is tied to how much you bring in, make a case to get put on the biggest accounts. In addition to the "money", you will be definitely challenged, as you will find bringing in the big fish is not that easy. If you master this, you will have skills that you can take wherever you go, in whatever industry….Again, you sound like you're a young dude, so you got a long way to go. If you're good at what you do, I frankly would be disappointed in you if you're not seeing $250k+ in the future because you decided to take a detour (again if money is that important to you). Sales people frankly make more then engineers and in many cases job blow line manager. It's harder to be a good sales person than an average engineer or average manager…though average sales people usually get paid crap and get flushed by the company if they don't meet their quotas….Again, not everyone can be a good salesman. It takes a certain personality to do it.

 

 

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Actually, I do find your thoughts useful, flu. Along with the other postings, and my own caution and predisposition prior to originating this thread, I'm getting more convinced that management might be a bad move for me.

I can't increase my salary in my current position though, regardless of how good I get. I've maxed out the pay scale. I can hang out and milk the OT at the end of the day while surfing the net and whining about my work dilemma, though.

What I'd prefer to do all day at work–manage or sell–isn't much of a factor. I'm all about the money. For what it's worth, I'd prefer the change of pace and new challenges that would come with management, but I work for money, not for new challenges and whatnot. I don't hate my sales job and that's all I really expect.

 

If your bonus is tied to how much you bring in, make a case to get put on the biggest accounts. In addition to the "money", you will be definitely challenged, as you will find bringing in the big fish is not that easy. If you master this, you will have skills that you can take wherever you go, in whatever industry….Again, you sound like you're a young dude, so you got a long way to go. If you're good at what you do, I frankly would be disappointed in you if you're not seeing $250k+ in the future because you decided to take a detour (again if money is that important to you). Sales people frankly make more then engineers and in many cases job blow line manager. It's harder to be a good sales person than an average engineer or average manager…though average sales people usually get paid crap and get flushed by the company if they don't meet their quotas….Again, not everyone can be a good salesman. It takes a certain personality to do it.

 

 

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Making the jump from individual contributor to manager can be difficult. Other promotions can be based on seniority, experience, education, etc. Who gets selected to be a manager is much more subjective so keep this in mind.

 

There is an easy, fullproof way to get a manager position, provided you aren't a complete idiot and haven't burned any bridges. It works every single time. Work for a company in which the employees are so unhappy that they leave left or right. Then if you stick around, you automatically become a manager, unless they REALLY don't like you, at which point you should then leave.

Being manager doesn't mean that you are necessarily the most qualified. It means sometimes being in the right place at the right time.

The only couple of times i stepped into management were primarily when if I didn't I'd be working for someone less competent AND who I felt wouldn't give me the recognition that I would deserve, or when they other candidate would have created issues with the team to rip the team apart. Frankly, it wasn't particularly what I wanted to do, as I had to deal with all sorts of things like conflict, expectation management, budgets, which frankly took up more time that what I enjoy doing. I also don't mind working for someone who isn't as technically capable as me, as long as that person doesn't try to put one over me.

Then there were times when I was passed up for an management position and some imbecile was placed above me that would have made my life hell and would have stolen all recognition that I would have deserved… In those situations, I simply stepped aside and  let them run the project…inevitability into the ground. Meanwhile, I worked on something else, usually something that was an exact duplication of what that person was trying to do, and usually did cleanup operations after he/she ran a  project  into the ground. Sounds mean? Well, I don't backstab people, but I definitely don't let people backstab me either. Sometimes, you can't really step aside at a startup, at which point it's plan B (you find another position, but you leave on a a good note, so that if things fail, they might call you back to help fix whatever thing was run into the ground).

 

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Making the jump from individual contributor to manager can be difficult. Other promotions can be based on seniority, experience, education, etc. Who gets selected to be a manager is much more subjective so keep this in mind.

 

There is an easy, fullproof way to get a manager position, provided you aren't a complete idiot and haven't burned any bridges. It works every single time. Work for a company in which the employees are so unhappy that they leave left or right. Then if you stick around, you automatically become a manager, unless they REALLY don't like you, at which point you should then leave.

Being manager doesn't mean that you are necessarily the most qualified. It means sometimes being in the right place at the right time.

The only couple of times i stepped into management were primarily when if I didn't I'd be working for someone less competent AND who I felt wouldn't give me the recognition that I would deserve, or when they other candidate would have created issues with the team to rip the team apart. Frankly, it wasn't particularly what I wanted to do, as I had to deal with all sorts of things like conflict, expectation management, budgets, which frankly took up more time that what I enjoy doing. I also don't mind working for someone who isn't as technically capable as me, as long as that person doesn't try to put one over me.

Then there were times when I was passed up for an management position and some imbecile was placed above me that would have made my life hell and would have stolen all recognition that I would have deserved… In those situations, I simply stepped aside and  let them run the project…inevitability into the ground. Meanwhile, I worked on something else, usually something that was an exact duplication of what that person was trying to do, and usually did cleanup operations after he/she ran a  project  into the ground. Sounds mean? Well, I don't backstab people, but I definitely don't let people backstab me either. Sometimes, you can't really step aside at a startup, at which point it's plan B (you find another position, but you leave on a a good note, so that if things fail, they might call you back to help fix whatever thing was run into the ground).

 

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Making the jump from individual contributor to manager can be difficult. Other promotions can be based on seniority, experience, education, etc. Who gets selected to be a manager is much more subjective so keep this in mind.

 

There is an easy, fullproof way to get a manager position, provided you aren't a complete idiot and haven't burned any bridges. It works every single time. Work for a company in which the employees are so unhappy that they leave left or right. Then if you stick around, you automatically become a manager, unless they REALLY don't like you, at which point you should then leave.

Being manager doesn't mean that you are necessarily the most qualified. It means sometimes being in the right place at the right time.

The only couple of times i stepped into management were primarily when if I didn't I'd be working for someone less competent AND who I felt wouldn't give me the recognition that I would deserve, or when they other candidate would have created issues with the team to rip the team apart. Frankly, it wasn't particularly what I wanted to do, as I had to deal with all sorts of things like conflict, expectation management, budgets, which frankly took up more time that what I enjoy doing. I also don't mind working for someone who isn't as technically capable as me, as long as that person doesn't try to put one over me.

Then there were times when I was passed up for an management position and some imbecile was placed above me that would have made my life hell and would have stolen all recognition that I would have deserved… In those situations, I simply stepped aside and  let them run the project…inevitability into the ground. Meanwhile, I worked on something else, usually something that was an exact duplication of what that person was trying to do, and usually did cleanup operations after he/she ran a  project  into the ground. Sounds mean? Well, I don't backstab people, but I definitely don't let people backstab me either. Sometimes, you can't really step aside at a startup, at which point it's plan B (you find another position, but you leave on a a good note, so that if things fail, they might call you back to help fix whatever thing was run into the ground).

 

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Making the jump from individual contributor to manager can be difficult. Other promotions can be based on seniority, experience, education, etc. Who gets selected to be a manager is much more subjective so keep this in mind.

 

There is an easy, fullproof way to get a manager position, provided you aren't a complete idiot and haven't burned any bridges. It works every single time. Work for a company in which the employees are so unhappy that they leave left or right. Then if you stick around, you automatically become a manager, unless they REALLY don't like you, at which point you should then leave.

Being manager doesn't mean that you are necessarily the most qualified. It means sometimes being in the right place at the right time.

The only couple of times i stepped into management were primarily when if I didn't I'd be working for someone less competent AND who I felt wouldn't give me the recognition that I would deserve, or when they other candidate would have created issues with the team to rip the team apart. Frankly, it wasn't particularly what I wanted to do, as I had to deal with all sorts of things like conflict, expectation management, budgets, which frankly took up more time that what I enjoy doing. I also don't mind working for someone who isn't as technically capable as me, as long as that person doesn't try to put one over me.

Then there were times when I was passed up for an management position and some imbecile was placed above me that would have made my life hell and would have stolen all recognition that I would have deserved… In those situations, I simply stepped aside and  let them run the project…inevitability into the ground. Meanwhile, I worked on something else, usually something that was an exact duplication of what that person was trying to do, and usually did cleanup operations after he/she ran a  project  into the ground. Sounds mean? Well, I don't backstab people, but I definitely don't let people backstab me either. Sometimes, you can't really step aside at a startup, at which point it's plan B (you find another position, but you leave on a a good note, so that if things fail, they might call you back to help fix whatever thing was run into the ground).

 

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Coronita]

Making the jump from individual contributor to manager can be difficult. Other promotions can be based on seniority, experience, education, etc. Who gets selected to be a manager is much more subjective so keep this in mind.

 

There is an easy, fullproof way to get a manager position, provided you aren't a complete idiot and haven't burned any bridges. It works every single time. Work for a company in which the employees are so unhappy that they leave left or right. Then if you stick around, you automatically become a manager, unless they REALLY don't like you, at which point you should then leave.

Being manager doesn't mean that you are necessarily the most qualified. It means sometimes being in the right place at the right time.

The only couple of times i stepped into management were primarily when if I didn't I'd be working for someone less competent AND who I felt wouldn't give me the recognition that I would deserve, or when they other candidate would have created issues with the team to rip the team apart. Frankly, it wasn't particularly what I wanted to do, as I had to deal with all sorts of things like conflict, expectation management, budgets, which frankly took up more time that what I enjoy doing. I also don't mind working for someone who isn't as technically capable as me, as long as that person doesn't try to put one over me.

Then there were times when I was passed up for an management position and some imbecile was placed above me that would have made my life hell and would have stolen all recognition that I would have deserved… In those situations, I simply stepped aside and  let them run the project…inevitability into the ground. Meanwhile, I worked on something else, usually something that was an exact duplication of what that person was trying to do, and usually did cleanup operations after he/she ran a  project  into the ground. Sounds mean? Well, I don't backstab people, but I definitely don't let people backstab me either. Sometimes, you can't really step aside at a startup, at which point it's plan B (you find another position, but you leave on a a good note, so that if things fail, they might call you back to help fix whatever thing was run into the ground).

 

 

[img_assist|nid=5962|title=selfportrait|desc=|link=node|align=left|width=100|height=80]

—– Sour grapes for everyone!

[Author]

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