[blahblahblah]

The flaw in your argument is the base assumption that profit is bad. Greed is bad, profit provides incentive to do it better and less expensively than the next person.

This grossly distorts my point without addressing it. I never said that profit is bad. I simply said that certain markets lack the characteristics necessary for effective competition. Such markets are very uncommon, but health care is one of them.

[blahblahblah]

The flaw in your argument is the base assumption that profit is bad. Greed is bad, profit provides incentive to do it better and less expensively than the next person.

This grossly distorts my point without addressing it. I never said that profit is bad. I simply said that certain markets lack the characteristics necessary for effective competition. Such markets are very uncommon, but health care is one of them.

[blahblahblah]

Public goods, those goods that are consumed without direct perceived cost to the end-user, have no incentive to prevent inefficient and excessive consumption.

Thanks for the ECON 101 refresher. Now let’s move on to some junior level class material. Healthcare isn’t a comparable market to the market for shoes and cars. Let’s imagine that you have health insurance and are diagnosed with cancer. Your provider won’t approve a treatment that could save your life — can you switch to another provider? Of course not, YOU HAVE CANCER and you’ll never be approved. Health care insurance simply does not work. Health care insurance companies have a direct incentive not to provide care. They can get away with this because the time interval between the consumer’s choice and the consumer’s actual consumption of the service may be a decade or even more. Consumers can visit for the sniffles in the meantime and those claims are paid because they are cheap, giving the illusion that the service is actually working. By the time the consumer actually needs a large payment for catastrophic illness, they are trapped and cannot choose another provider. If the provider denies care, the consumer can’t do anything. They could try to sue, but the provider will have much greater access to legal resources (read: money) and will likely prevail. In an open market, the providers which cheat and deny the most claims can quickly overrun providers that operate fairly.

None of these systems are perfect, but government-run services remove the profit motive. The point about the size of the US market is a good one. It would be very expensive here, but we are already spending the money via insurance premiums and taxes.

[blahblahblah]

Public goods, those goods that are consumed without direct perceived cost to the end-user, have no incentive to prevent inefficient and excessive consumption.

Thanks for the ECON 101 refresher. Now let’s move on to some junior level class material. Healthcare isn’t a comparable market to the market for shoes and cars. Let’s imagine that you have health insurance and are diagnosed with cancer. Your provider won’t approve a treatment that could save your life — can you switch to another provider? Of course not, YOU HAVE CANCER and you’ll never be approved. Health care insurance simply does not work. Health care insurance companies have a direct incentive not to provide care. They can get away with this because the time interval between the consumer’s choice and the consumer’s actual consumption of the service may be a decade or even more. Consumers can visit for the sniffles in the meantime and those claims are paid because they are cheap, giving the illusion that the service is actually working. By the time the consumer actually needs a large payment for catastrophic illness, they are trapped and cannot choose another provider. If the provider denies care, the consumer can’t do anything. They could try to sue, but the provider will have much greater access to legal resources (read: money) and will likely prevail. In an open market, the providers which cheat and deny the most claims can quickly overrun providers that operate fairly.

None of these systems are perfect, but government-run services remove the profit motive. The point about the size of the US market is a good one. It would be very expensive here, but we are already spending the money via insurance premiums and taxes.

[blahblahblah]

Yes, these anecdotes of problems and inefficiencies in the British NHS prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that OUR SYSTEM IS SUPERIOR! And that doctor terrorist guy is proof that government employees are only one step removed from terrorists. Socialized medicine is for dum-dum poo-poo heads. And communists.

Now get the hell away from me and my money!

[blahblahblah]

Yes, these anecdotes of problems and inefficiencies in the British NHS prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that OUR SYSTEM IS SUPERIOR! And that doctor terrorist guy is proof that government employees are only one step removed from terrorists. Socialized medicine is for dum-dum poo-poo heads. And communists.

Now get the hell away from me and my money!

[blahblahblah]

Good point. There is no reason for these postings anymore; I have been following them and I’ve distilled them all down to the following information:

* Al Gore is a poo-poo head smarty-pants. He is also fat. And a liar.

* Michael Moore is also a fat poo-poo head.

* Get your hands off of my money!

* If you have problems it is YOUR FAULT, you poo-poo head.

* If you disagree with me, you are a poo-poo head communist.

[blahblahblah]

Good point. There is no reason for these postings anymore; I have been following them and I’ve distilled them all down to the following information:

* Al Gore is a poo-poo head smarty-pants. He is also fat. And a liar.

* Michael Moore is also a fat poo-poo head.

* Get your hands off of my money!

* If you have problems it is YOUR FAULT, you poo-poo head.

* If you disagree with me, you are a poo-poo head communist.

[blahblahblah]

It is not always the doctors and medical professional. I would say it is more due to the tort culture, which targets this group easily.

Clearly trial laywers like the evil and immoral JOHN EDWARDS are to blame. Also, fat and lazy Americans are to blame for not taking care of themselves. I would also add to the list MISTER SMARTY-PANTSES like AL GORE. He is also FAT like the COMMUNIST MICHAEL MOORE. Ha ha. FATTIES.

[blahblahblah]

It is not always the doctors and medical professional. I would say it is more due to the tort culture, which targets this group easily.

Clearly trial laywers like the evil and immoral JOHN EDWARDS are to blame. Also, fat and lazy Americans are to blame for not taking care of themselves. I would also add to the list MISTER SMARTY-PANTSES like AL GORE. He is also FAT like the COMMUNIST MICHAEL MOORE. Ha ha. FATTIES.

[blahblahblah]

The middle and lower classes(not peasants),everywhere I have been, make ours look like dolts, for the most part, even in Mexico, Africa, and the Phillipines.

Huh? I have lots of stories of dumb people from my travels around the world. In Latin America and Europe people always like to tell me about how terrible America is and how awful Americans are, and then when I ask them if they’ve ever visited America they respond with either “No, I don’t need to go to know it’s horrible” or “I went once for two weeks fifteen years ago and hated it”. I met lots of people in South America that thought California was its own country and that the US president was still named Clinton. A friend of mine lived in Japan for a long time and couldn’t ever get his friends there to understand that Ireland wasn’t part of the US. Of course there are smart people all over the world too but you can’t paint with such a broad brush.

Definitely don’t travel with a large group of Americans (or Europeans for that matter!) Get away from the tourist busses as fast as possible. If you think Americans are bad, watch the busful of Frenchmen try to talk to Mexicans in French. It happens all the time, they’re just as bad as we are. Germans are better, they typically make an effort. So do the Swedes. The only good thing I’ll say about organized tours is that the locals who guide them are usually super-smart and knowledgeable about all kinds of things. I have come away from some of those thinking that the locals are all geniuses and then I talk to the guy selling hot dogs on the street and he can’t even read or write. When you strike out on your own and jump in the front seat of a cab with a guy in Guatemala that never finished the 3rd grade — now you’re gonna experience the real flavor of the place! And have a hell of a lot of fun, too. Don’t be so down on dumb people, even dumb Americans. Their cluelessness makes life more fun (and some of us wealthy!)

[blahblahblah]

The middle and lower classes(not peasants),everywhere I have been, make ours look like dolts, for the most part, even in Mexico, Africa, and the Phillipines.

Huh? I have lots of stories of dumb people from my travels around the world. In Latin America and Europe people always like to tell me about how terrible America is and how awful Americans are, and then when I ask them if they’ve ever visited America they respond with either “No, I don’t need to go to know it’s horrible” or “I went once for two weeks fifteen years ago and hated it”. I met lots of people in South America that thought California was its own country and that the US president was still named Clinton. A friend of mine lived in Japan for a long time and couldn’t ever get his friends there to understand that Ireland wasn’t part of the US. Of course there are smart people all over the world too but you can’t paint with such a broad brush.

Definitely don’t travel with a large group of Americans (or Europeans for that matter!) Get away from the tourist busses as fast as possible. If you think Americans are bad, watch the busful of Frenchmen try to talk to Mexicans in French. It happens all the time, they’re just as bad as we are. Germans are better, they typically make an effort. So do the Swedes. The only good thing I’ll say about organized tours is that the locals who guide them are usually super-smart and knowledgeable about all kinds of things. I have come away from some of those thinking that the locals are all geniuses and then I talk to the guy selling hot dogs on the street and he can’t even read or write. When you strike out on your own and jump in the front seat of a cab with a guy in Guatemala that never finished the 3rd grade — now you’re gonna experience the real flavor of the place! And have a hell of a lot of fun, too. Don’t be so down on dumb people, even dumb Americans. Their cluelessness makes life more fun (and some of us wealthy!)

[blahblahblah]

Mark my words, within 10-15 years…
New Zealand’s gonna be looking pretty good about then.

MaA, are you an NZ citizen? Earlier you mentioned were born in 67, which makes you 40 this year. In 10-15 years, you’ll be between 50-55 which is gonna make it damn hard for you to emigrate to NZ unless you marry an NZ native. Priority is given to young immigrants there since they’ll pay taxes longer and contribute more to the society. FYI, the absolute max age for skilled migrants is 55 in NZ, so if you’re seriously thinking about it, I’d recommend getting started now.

[blahblahblah]

Mark my words, within 10-15 years…
New Zealand’s gonna be looking pretty good about then.

MaA, are you an NZ citizen? Earlier you mentioned were born in 67, which makes you 40 this year. In 10-15 years, you’ll be between 50-55 which is gonna make it damn hard for you to emigrate to NZ unless you marry an NZ native. Priority is given to young immigrants there since they’ll pay taxes longer and contribute more to the society. FYI, the absolute max age for skilled migrants is 55 in NZ, so if you’re seriously thinking about it, I’d recommend getting started now.

[blahblahblah]

Of course there’s always the Logan’s Run solution.

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