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an
Participant[quote=spdrun]Personally, I’m for the right to guzzle. Get rid of CAFE rules, water saver rules, etc. But also tax the living heck out of limited resources so there are other economic incentives to conserve.
This is the minimally bureaucratic and intrusive way to enforce conservation.[/quote]Limited supply? There’s the Pacific Ocean right next to us. I’m sure if we build 10 desalenation plants and recycle our water, there would be plenty of water for everyone. We can also do what Hong Kong does and use salt water to flush our toilets. We can also use salt water to take showers. After, that’s what we do when we add water softener to our house. There are plenty of solutions to this problem.
ParticipantLoL, pro choice huh?
November 3, 2016 at 10:22 PM in reply to: OT: automation and robotics as manufacturing job killers #803019ParticipantIt started in the factory, but it won’t stop there. I heard McDonald is spending tens of millions in automation to supplement their work force. I feel like this will only accelerate. Once McDonald is successful of going mostly automation, I’m sure other fast food chain will follow. Then other casual dining place will do the same as well. Red Robin is already kind of doing this already.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]AN, would Trump being a puppet of Russia worry you?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/11/01/trumps-putin-problem-returns-in-a-big-way/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-b%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.977f1b8efbc2%5B/quote%5DNo more or less than Clinton being a puppet for all of her donors. Which means I don’t like it, but the majority seem not to care. So, whatever.Participant[quote=flu]I understand, but to be frank, I think a lot of decent republicans, especially at the local level, got caught up in this. There aren’t many sitting republicans in CA (well at least here, bay area, in LA) that are totally alt-right. The reasons why they are probably republicans to begin with is because they are anti-alt-left. Plenty of examples of sitting republicans that get get along just fine with all the other democrats in the middle. Punishing them is sort of like guilt by association imho.
It’s not so simple as dropping their party and running independent.[/quote]I agree with you that they’re not alt-right. However, I’m not afraid of the alt-right. I don’t expect them to drop their party and run independent. Although, I would give them much more prop for doing just that. There are several Republicans who refuse to endorse Trump and go as far as endorsing Johnson. A lot of the college republican groups also endorse Johnson over Trump. That’s the kind of backbone I want. I want them to put country over party.Just look at Kevin Faulconer, that’s the kind of Republican I can get behind.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=AN]Well, Hillary did vote for the Iraq war, going into and staying in Afghanistan, going into and staying in Libya, going into and staying in Syria. So, in term of war, I’m not sure she’ll do anything different than Bush or Obama.
[/quote]You have not been paying attention. Obama is not the same a Bush. It you really believe that, then it just shows your mind is good at deflecting inconvenient truths.
Republicans are very trigger happy have been accusing democrats of being weak on defense for decades.
Democrats were very reluctant and many were maligned as unpatriotic. All my republican friends were fully supporting the war on Iraq. They were watching CNN marveling at shock and awe and how badass we were, celebrating war. Of course, they have conveniently forgotten.[/quote]
Then please tell me, why are we still in Afghanistan, Libya, Syria? When will we get out? Also, who voted for the Iraq war? Lesser of the two evil is still evil.Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]AN, you want to blow up thr Republican Party but you also want a counter to democrats. If you’re center right, you should help the Republicans abandon their wacky positions.
I personally think Republicans need to pay dear price for enabling the extremists within their party. Another 16 years out of the White House sounds good to me. Just think about it, California and Hawaii, dominated by democrats, are nice places to live. I don’t see people moving to Kansas where the economy has been destroyed by a republican governor.[/quote]I’m not center right. I’m more liberal than most democrats in social policies and more conservative than most republican in fiscal policies.
Your CA/HI example is extremely poor. Those are the two states w/ the best weather IMHO. If it’s not for the weather, I wouldn’t be here. It’s like living in paradise, I can put up w/ a lot of shit in order to live in paradise.
Participant[quote=flu]
I don’t get this. Why? In CA, there are more republicans that are more moderate than at the national level. Many don’t even agree with what is coming out of Alt-right, and have even gone on record being anti-alt-right/trumpist, well before Trump’s ratings took a nose dive. If you don’t want what something like SCA-5 to happen again, in CA, you don’t want to see CA state assembly/senate regain a supermajority.I’m actually kind of chuckling at this because it seems like this time, we’re doing the exact opposite. At the local level, I voted for every republican I could that wasn’t a trump supporter, and made sure all the democrats that either voted for SCA-5 or thought it was ok didn’t get my vote. [/quote]The main reason why I voted all Dems down ballot is because 1) like you, I want to vote for all the opponents of those who don’t refute Trump 2) I want to blow up the Republican party. Even if they don’t get blown up, at least I’m casting my protest vote, saying that it’s not OK for have Trump be your torchbearer.
[quote=flu]I guess the difference here is my age versus your age. 8 years, this will impact my kid. and 20 years, I’ll probably be dead, so it won’t matter :)[/quote]I personally am a planner and I have confidence in myself to be able to handle whatever Trump or Clinton can throw at me. So, I’m not too concern about 4-8 years. However, I want my kids and grandkids to have more opportunities and success. Which is why I’m more concerned of 20+ years, even if I would be dead by then.
Participant[quote=flu]There’s plenty of rhetoric being through from that side on high tech workers, forign workers, and H1-Bs.[/quote]Rhetoric is one thing. Actual proposal is another. At least no one on the right actually proposed affirmative action.
[quote=flu]I agree. And that has crossed my mind/
In the worst case scenario, we see Hillary win, and Democrats taking over Senate, not taking over House, neither of which is enough to stop a filibuster.[/quote]You think that’s worse case scenario? Worse case scenario would be Republican also lose the house. The Republican is completely fractured and there are 3-4 other parties picking up the pieces and none will be able to compete with the $ from the Democrats and they have control of all 3 branches for decades. Now, that’s worse case scenario.
[quote=flu]In the other scenario, Republicans maintain control both House and Senate and Trump wins, since it’s unlikely Trump would win, while GOP down-ballot senators/house reps lose their seats in the majority. In that case, we would have the lop-sided government. What are the prospects of a Republican only government? Doesn’t that bother you?[/quote]Yes, that does bother me, but I personally think that’s a much much less likely scenario. Maybe you think this is likely if all you watch is Fox.
[quote=flu]I’m more concerned the ALT-Right completely taking over the republican party. Then what? Republican core values are quickly being eroded. No one on the right is really talking about fiscal responsibility, responsible spending, hard work, effort. The same thing coming out of alt-right is the same thing is coming out of far alt-left. It’s someone else’s fault, blame THEM. No one wants to accept responsibility for their own outcome anymore. On top of that, then you got a government that will spend more time on bullshit social conservatism (anti-gay rights, anti-women’s rights, more religious nutjob bullshit), not of which was ever particularly appealing to some of us in the middle anyway.[/quote]I personally give up the Republican party just as I’ve given up the Democrat party in the past. I view them both as hypocrites. It’s funny you’re saying all of the bullshit that is the current Republican party. Those are the exact reason why I’ve given up on them I see them as nothing but hypocrites. Small government my ass. Same as the Dems, pro choice my ass. I personally would like to see the Alt-Right blow up the republican party. I’m tired of these spineless Republicans in congress.
[quote=flu]Republicans establishment never in the past picked a fight with “foreign workers”. Trump changed a lot of this. It starts with illegals, and low skill workers. And then there’s grumblings about H1-Bs and foreign workers…How much longer do you think that the hate over foreign workers and H1-B’s boil over to anyone that looks foreign? This is why I feel this sort of thinking is dangerous. It might not concern you or me right now, since neither of us are hispanic, illegal or muslim. But when does the line get drawn and when does it stop? Answer it won’t. Because none of the uneducated, unskilled people will ever be happy because they won’t ever realize the reason why they are left behind has nothing to do with what everyone else is doing, but rather it has everything to do with what they themselves are not doing. But along the way, they will continue to find every excuse and every reason why they are being left behind… [/quote]I personally think there aren’t as many hardcore Trump supporter who think like what you’re describing. I’m guessing around 20% of the Republican, which is about 5% of Americans. The rest either are just tired of the political class and just want to blow shit up or they’re exactly like you and are voting for the lesser of the two evil.
[quote=flu]Does things like that fox ridicule of chinatown bother you at all? I mean, we’re talking prime time. You think fox would have done something like this in Harlem?
I’m not really trying to convince you, just letting you know where I’m coming from. As pretty good friends with you, I totally respect your position on things, as I can totally understand how in a lot of ways a lot of us have been, well short changed, by bullshit things like what SCA-5 almost tried to do. My take on this is..Fight the current present danger, and fight the other danger when we have more time 🙁 [/quote]I totally respect your decision and understand where you’re coming from. I was just pointing out that CA is going for Hillary, regardless of how you or I vote. So, I personally don’t need to vote for the lesser of the two evil. But I did vote for ALL Dems in the down ballot with hope to blow up the Republican party.
[quote=flu]It’s actually pretty hard to get impeached, it appears. Didn’t we go to war in Iraq on a big lie? Still waiting for those WMD’s….[/quote]Well, Hillary did vote for the Iraq war, going into and staying in Afghanistan, going into and staying in Libya, going into and staying in Syria. So, in term of war, I’m not sure she’ll do anything different than Bush or Obama.
[quote=flu]My definition of long term is probably most people’s definition of short term. I consider 4 years already pretty long. 8 would be an eternity. I don’t expect the damage to be longer than that. But nevertheless it still would suck.[/quote]I guess this is what’s causing us to diverge in deciding who to vote for. I view 4-8 years as short term. I’m sure I can do more than survive 4-8 years regardless of Trump or Hillary. I don’t think both can do that much serious damage in 4-8 years, which I consider as short term. Long term to me is more like 20+ years. I look at the policies both are peddling and see how it will affect me, my kids, my grand kids, etc.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=AN] Say hello to the new boss, same as the old boss.[/quote]
Sounds like you voted for a third party candidate. You’re free to do that.
I assume that by new boss, old boss, you mean that Republicans are the same as Democrats. If that’s the case, then you should feel indifferent between the 2 major parties. Just do us a favor and keep voting third party.[/quote]It doesn’t matter who I vote for president, the Democrat nominee will get CA’s electoral vote. So, yeah, I will vote for my conscience and not for the lesser of the two evils. As for non-presidential races, I’ve voted for both Dems and Rep as well as 3rd party. I actually voted all Dems in this election if that matters, minus for the presidency. I don’t feel indifferent about the two major party. I don’t vote base on party line. I’m glad I’m doing you a favor, lol. Feel free to keep on voting for your side, then complain people on the other side do the exact same thing. Hypocrisy is quite hilarious. Especially when the hypocrite don’t see it.
When I say new boss same as old boss, I was referring to their stances with regards to crony capitalism. With both parties, companies like GE and rich guys/gals will always be paying less in taxes as a % of their real income than small biz and working stiff.
Participantflu, I don’t remember ever seeing anything about Trump supporter pushing for quota or affirmative action. Keep in mind his core supporters are not college educated and they feel more threaten by those who take their skilled/unskilled union jobs than high tech works. So, I’m not threaten by their fear.
Also, I’m pretty you’re fully aware than presidents don’t make bills and laws. So, I’m more afraid of one party taking full control of all 3 branches. Bad shit tends to happen when that happen. Although, I did vote for Peters because Denise Gitsham endorses Trump, so, maybe I’m shooting myself in the foot with this one.
I understand you don’t particularly like Hillary. I just pointed out one particular group of people who hate Hillary to a point where they would vote for Trump all the while hoping he’ll get impeached. This is why I don’t think guys like Trump will be able to do too much damage. If Clinton can get impeached for the Monica shit, then Trump would be impeached much faster if he ever pull any of the shit you’re worried about.
I understand your position on the market and I don’t really object them. Except for the your fear of Trump causing a long term market decline. I think if he does win, it would be a short term pull back, then the market will recover shortly after. We’ll just have to wait and see I guess.
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]AN, sounds like you want a president who will destroy the economy so you can swoop in and buy assets on the cheap. If that’s the case, then just vote for who you think will do just that.[/quote]LoL, no, not even close. I already cast my vote and it’s not for either of the two anti free trade bozos. I want economic prosperity for all, not just for the rich and connected. Which is exactly what happened under Obama. Hence the widening of the wealth gap. I want capitalism, not crony capitalism. Just because that’s what I want doesn’t mean I’m not eyes wide open and fully aware of the crony capitalistic society we live in. I’ve done my part and cast my vote against crony capitalism, but will take full advantage of it, since the majority seem to want it. That is why I didn’t buy into the fear the right was peddling when Obama was elected in 2008 and am not buying the fear the left is peddling with Trump today. Say hello to the new boss, same as the old boss.
ParticipantYou’re comparing tech to the .com bubble. So, you’re right, it took 8 years to get back to where it was. But that mean it got back to bubble level. Just like RE during Obama. It took 8 years to get back to about bubble level. But that does not mean it was in decline for 8 years. During 1-2 years after the crash, it was difficult to find jobs. The abundance of options wasn’t there. However, it wasn’t hard to find at least one or two position available.
It’s funny you said a lot tech worker wasn’t in position to buy assets in 2001-6, but those experienced people had an opportunity to sell their stocks at bubble price and buy RE. If you’re talking about younger people, I know many who did buy around that time, since they don’t have much problem finding jobs either. I guess where you stand depend on where you sit.
As for not targeting a specific ethnic group, you’re right. I personally expect it to continue. After all, those who really want to target a specific group is a small % of the population. The rest who are voting for Trump use the same logic you’re using to vote for Hillary. They think she’s worse for them than he would be. So, I would be say there won’t be enough support to get any law pass to target a specific ethnic group.
I just had a conversation with someone who voted for Trump. She held her nose and voted for him while hoping he’ll get impeached and Pence will take over. I wonder if there’s enough of those people out there to push him over the top. She’s even worse than you flu. At least you half way like Hillary and aren’t hoping she’ll get indited and get put in jail or get impeached. But that also shows how much Hillary is hated by some people where they would vote for Trump while hoping he’ll get impeached, because to them, Hillary is worse.
BTW, I personally think bills like SCA-5 does target a specific ethnic group. Imagine if SCA-5 got passed nationally.
Participant[quote=flu][quote=AN][quote=flu][quote=AN]flu, I know you’re much more rational than this. Don’t talk like those crazy right wing nut jobs when Obama won in 2008. Everything will be just fine under either one of them. I am super grateful that we saw 2008 under Bush. There’s no way in hell I would be where I am today w/out that crash. So, if I’m lucky enough to see another 201k, that would be super awesome. Bring it on.[/quote]
Long term I know we will be fine.I am pivoting more towards for a “correction” right now than before, I really don’t want to live through another 8 years of recession with my money locked into stock on the wrong side of the fence. Over the next 8 years, I’ll have 1 kid going to college (with a major expense), I’ll almost be eligible to start receiving junk mail from AARP, and my reaction time will probably be so slow I probably won’t be able to tell the difference between a Cadillac versus a Porsche.
I just don’t see many positive events that could be driving the markets higher, especially with a Trump win, especially since it doesn’t seem like the markets like Trump. The markets seemed to have already factored in a Hillary win. VIX Volatility index went up, precious metals went up, and the major indexes did a reversal after news broke.
I don’t know, just seems “strange”. In a few days, we’ll find out….And if all is well, no harm in moving things back.[/quote]Why do you think time is different and if there is a recession that it will last 8 years? Even with the great recession, we’re better off today than in 2007. The market is a finical bunch. I wouldn’t put too much trust in their knee jerk reactions. Especially when we’re talking about something as long as 8 years. I would go all in if we have a pull back if Trump win. I would definitely sit in mostly cash by 11/7 though, just in case we get such a knee jerk sell off. That would be an awesome opportunity.[/quote]
the McCarthy era comes to mind.
8 years is a long time. We were lucky because the great recession didn’t impact high tech because for the most part most of the recovery and investments were in tech.
Remember the bush years? How did tech do then?[/quote]Which Bush? What happened to tech? If you’re talking about GWB, I thought tech recovered just fine after the .com crash. Going forward, I predict that $ will continue to be pouring into tech. So, I’m not worried.
Also, McCarthy era was ~60 years ago. A lot has changed since then.
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