[Allan from Fallbrook]

Forgive an apparently ignorant question, but what is the CORE scam?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Da Counselor: This follows along with an earlier post we both contributed to regarding a possible credit contraction and its implications for the larger market.

I think the article did hit one point squarely (and I agree that it seemed somewhat incoherent overall) and that was that regulatory and market forces are exerting some level of “push back” in the form of tightening standards for lending.

Given that California was one of the leaders when it came to high percentages of ARM loans, I think the effects of the fallout will be strongly felt here. Consumers who had grown used to refinancing their way out of trouble over the last few years will now find themselves in much more difficult straits. No more double digit appreciation, no more paper equity cushion to play with, and increasingly expensive money that is increasingly difficult to qualify for.

The ride back down the rollercoaster will probably be a lot more hair raising (and painful) than the ride up.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Da Counselor: This follows along with an earlier post we both contributed to regarding a possible credit contraction and its implications for the larger market.

I think the article did hit one point squarely (and I agree that it seemed somewhat incoherent overall) and that was that regulatory and market forces are exerting some level of “push back” in the form of tightening standards for lending.

Given that California was one of the leaders when it came to high percentages of ARM loans, I think the effects of the fallout will be strongly felt here. Consumers who had grown used to refinancing their way out of trouble over the last few years will now find themselves in much more difficult straits. No more double digit appreciation, no more paper equity cushion to play with, and increasingly expensive money that is increasingly difficult to qualify for.

The ride back down the rollercoaster will probably be a lot more hair raising (and painful) than the ride up.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

LA_Renter: I think people, by and large, have been continuing to buy into the propaganda that the NAR and Mortgage Bankers Assn have been putting out about the bottom being in sight and the worst is over.

Not a day goes by without some pronouncement from a home building, lending or realty group spokesperson about housing being set to “pick back up” or “rebound”. Even locally, you have yutzes at the UT or Transcript bloviating about the “difference” in the San Diego market, and why we will be somewhat immune from “downturn”. The euphemisms being used to downplay this bloodbath are positively Soviet.

I wonder what Baghdad Bob is doing for work lately. He would be a great spokesman for the NAR

[Allan from Fallbrook]

LA_Renter: I think people, by and large, have been continuing to buy into the propaganda that the NAR and Mortgage Bankers Assn have been putting out about the bottom being in sight and the worst is over.

Not a day goes by without some pronouncement from a home building, lending or realty group spokesperson about housing being set to “pick back up” or “rebound”. Even locally, you have yutzes at the UT or Transcript bloviating about the “difference” in the San Diego market, and why we will be somewhat immune from “downturn”. The euphemisms being used to downplay this bloodbath are positively Soviet.

I wonder what Baghdad Bob is doing for work lately. He would be a great spokesman for the NAR

[Allan from Fallbrook]

DaCounselor: A friend of mine does a lot of work in South America and travels to Miami frequently as a result. He has been doing this since 2004, so he has seen the upswing and subsequent plummet of the Miami condo market.

In particular, the units along Biscayne are getting savaged as far as sales and reduced pricing go. He also mentioned that several of the highly touted condo high rises have shuttered operations without even breaking ground.

The incentive packages being offered are also getting more and more grandiose in the (apparently) forlorn hopes of enticing buyers.

I don’t think the downtown SD condo market is going to get this bad, but it sounds as though there is a huge amount of inventory getting ready to hit the market over the next 2.5 years and that should have a significant impact on pricing.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

DaCounselor: A friend of mine does a lot of work in South America and travels to Miami frequently as a result. He has been doing this since 2004, so he has seen the upswing and subsequent plummet of the Miami condo market.

In particular, the units along Biscayne are getting savaged as far as sales and reduced pricing go. He also mentioned that several of the highly touted condo high rises have shuttered operations without even breaking ground.

The incentive packages being offered are also getting more and more grandiose in the (apparently) forlorn hopes of enticing buyers.

I don’t think the downtown SD condo market is going to get this bad, but it sounds as though there is a huge amount of inventory getting ready to hit the market over the next 2.5 years and that should have a significant impact on pricing.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rustico: I did not mean to infer that you were supporting Islam over Christianity, nor was I holding up the Catholic Church as some paragon of virtue. Nope. I was making the point, however, that whatever the various misdeeds of the Catholic Church (and Christianity for that matter) in the period immediately before and following the Renaissance, far more progress has been made in the Western world than in the Middle and Near East.

The Church’s suppression of knowledge and persecution of folks like Galileo, stands in counterpoint to support of thinkers like Aquinas and artists like Da Vinci. What is inarguable is that, however misguided, the Church and the various state institutions advanced Western civilization at a rapid clip. Yes, it was mainly about the accretion of power, influence and real estate and there were some really nasty instances of bad behavior in there (Cortes, the Spanish Inquisition, pretty much everything having to do with settling The New World, etc), but all of history is replete with similar tales and regardless of geography and culture.

My main point is that we have moved forward and there is NO comparison between the Europe of the Middle Ages and the Europe of today. Individual freedoms, decentralized state and political power, the rule of law have all advanced to a point where the modern states of Germany, Italy, France and England are completely unrecognizable from their older counterparts.

I would also point out that there were more wars (of greater destructiveness) during than Age of Reason than nearly any other point in European history (save WWI/WWII obviously).

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rustico: I did not mean to infer that you were supporting Islam over Christianity, nor was I holding up the Catholic Church as some paragon of virtue. Nope. I was making the point, however, that whatever the various misdeeds of the Catholic Church (and Christianity for that matter) in the period immediately before and following the Renaissance, far more progress has been made in the Western world than in the Middle and Near East.

The Church’s suppression of knowledge and persecution of folks like Galileo, stands in counterpoint to support of thinkers like Aquinas and artists like Da Vinci. What is inarguable is that, however misguided, the Church and the various state institutions advanced Western civilization at a rapid clip. Yes, it was mainly about the accretion of power, influence and real estate and there were some really nasty instances of bad behavior in there (Cortes, the Spanish Inquisition, pretty much everything having to do with settling The New World, etc), but all of history is replete with similar tales and regardless of geography and culture.

My main point is that we have moved forward and there is NO comparison between the Europe of the Middle Ages and the Europe of today. Individual freedoms, decentralized state and political power, the rule of law have all advanced to a point where the modern states of Germany, Italy, France and England are completely unrecognizable from their older counterparts.

I would also point out that there were more wars (of greater destructiveness) during than Age of Reason than nearly any other point in European history (save WWI/WWII obviously).

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rustico: Thanks again for the kind words.

I would like to raise one point that I did not in earlier posts regarding the Christian versus Islam debate, and that is the issue of modernity.

If you look at world history solely from the Renaissance forward, and you were to graph the progress of the Western (or so-called “Christian”) world on one line and the Middle East and Near East (comprised of Turkey, down through the Levant, across the Saudi peninsula and into/including Afghanistan)on another line, you see an interesting (albeit simple) graph emerge. The Middle Eastern world has remained stagnant economically, socially and politically and the Western world (especially America, England and Central Europe) have made tremendous strides in terms of economic, social, scientific, political and religious progress.

I say this not to offer some scathing indictment of Islam and the Middle/Near East, but to ask the question: What factor or factors contribute(d) to the progress on one hand and the stagnation on the other?

CardiffBaseball made an admittedly ham handed reference to Islam and the issue of genital mutiliation, but his point was valid. I also agree with the idea that this made his blood boil. It should.

Rustico, you said that the West has been propangandized when it came to the subject of Islam and Mid East. I agree, but to the extent that we have been told to turn a blind eye to the depredations of a culture that espouses a chauvinistic, misogynistic, and xenophobic world view.

Martyrs for Islam claim a heavenly reward of 72 virgins. Is it just me, or does that strike anyone else here as remarkably childish and infantile? You are part of a religious and social culture that is so sexually repressed and backward that any hope you have of true and unfettered sexual fulfillment has to come with your martyrdom in the cause of Islam and for Allah? Huh?

I mention the Renaissance for another reason. The Roman Catholic Church has been castigated for its transgressions in the period leading to the Protestant Schism (and in point of fact, this was the reason behind the Schism) and justifiably so. As Rustico pointed out, Catholicism was a faith that converted at sword point as well. However, and this is key: Catholicism and Christianity have moved forward and by tremendous leaps and bounds since that time. Islam, arguably, has not. Has not to the point that Osama bin Laden and his ilk wish fervently for a return to this medieval type faith and a world ruled by a unified Islamic caliphate subject to and bound by Islamic law (Shar’ia).

If my choice is between modern Catholicism (which still has a ways to go in modernizing) or modern Islam (which has not modernized in any sense), I think I’ll stay Catholic.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rustico: Thanks again for the kind words.

I would like to raise one point that I did not in earlier posts regarding the Christian versus Islam debate, and that is the issue of modernity.

If you look at world history solely from the Renaissance forward, and you were to graph the progress of the Western (or so-called “Christian”) world on one line and the Middle East and Near East (comprised of Turkey, down through the Levant, across the Saudi peninsula and into/including Afghanistan)on another line, you see an interesting (albeit simple) graph emerge. The Middle Eastern world has remained stagnant economically, socially and politically and the Western world (especially America, England and Central Europe) have made tremendous strides in terms of economic, social, scientific, political and religious progress.

I say this not to offer some scathing indictment of Islam and the Middle/Near East, but to ask the question: What factor or factors contribute(d) to the progress on one hand and the stagnation on the other?

CardiffBaseball made an admittedly ham handed reference to Islam and the issue of genital mutiliation, but his point was valid. I also agree with the idea that this made his blood boil. It should.

Rustico, you said that the West has been propangandized when it came to the subject of Islam and Mid East. I agree, but to the extent that we have been told to turn a blind eye to the depredations of a culture that espouses a chauvinistic, misogynistic, and xenophobic world view.

Martyrs for Islam claim a heavenly reward of 72 virgins. Is it just me, or does that strike anyone else here as remarkably childish and infantile? You are part of a religious and social culture that is so sexually repressed and backward that any hope you have of true and unfettered sexual fulfillment has to come with your martyrdom in the cause of Islam and for Allah? Huh?

I mention the Renaissance for another reason. The Roman Catholic Church has been castigated for its transgressions in the period leading to the Protestant Schism (and in point of fact, this was the reason behind the Schism) and justifiably so. As Rustico pointed out, Catholicism was a faith that converted at sword point as well. However, and this is key: Catholicism and Christianity have moved forward and by tremendous leaps and bounds since that time. Islam, arguably, has not. Has not to the point that Osama bin Laden and his ilk wish fervently for a return to this medieval type faith and a world ruled by a unified Islamic caliphate subject to and bound by Islamic law (Shar’ia).

If my choice is between modern Catholicism (which still has a ways to go in modernizing) or modern Islam (which has not modernized in any sense), I think I’ll stay Catholic.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rustico: Thanks for your time as well. I appreciate both the consideration and the opportunity to engage in what was a very fun dialogue for me.

Of course, you need to remember to watch the Germans (and the Jesuits for that matter). Turn your back on us, and the next thing you know we’re in Poland!

Regards

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rustico: Thanks for your time as well. I appreciate both the consideration and the opportunity to engage in what was a very fun dialogue for me.

Of course, you need to remember to watch the Germans (and the Jesuits for that matter). Turn your back on us, and the next thing you know we’re in Poland!

Regards

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rustico: I certainly don’t think you are picking on me, and the point of discourse is to be able to articulate differing viewpoints in a friendly environment.

I mentioned both the Germans and the Jesuits for the very reason you picked up on. Yup, there is a lot of stuff in both histories that is cringe making, but that is also the nature of history.

I also do not for a second believe that if oil weren’t present in Iraq, we would be there. “Trade follows the flag” is a truism now, was during the days of the British Empire and the Roman Empire as well. We are an empire, in name if not deed, but a fairly enlightened one to a certain extent. Of course, if history truly judges us, we are also a pretty brutal bunch in our own way.

That being said, I also think a fair reading of history will condemn Christians and Moslems alike. Islam is not a religion of peace and the “religion of the sword” comment is derived from Sura 9:5 in the Qu’ran (“The Sword Verse”) that makes it explicitly clear how Islam is to be spread to the non-believers.

While there are undoubtedly political motivations and machinations inherent to the fighting between the Sunnis and Shia, the larger issue is one of Quranic interpretation and this has inspired internecine warfare between the two sects for a lot longer than we have been in Iraq.

I really don’t have any ingrained dislike of Moslems or Islam, any more than I have a natural dislike of Buddhism, Shintoism or the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Belief in God and religiosity/spirituality are intensely personal decisions and not subject to my judgments as to whether or not they are correct. However, as with Nazism, Communism or the New York Yankees, some things are intrinsically wrong.

From a religious standpoint, any religion that actively seeks the subjugation of non-believers and does so in the name of God is a problem. If that is fundamentalist Christianity or fundamentalist Islam makes no difference to me. Last time I checked though, we didn’t have a group of priests or rabbis flying jumbo jets into skyscrapers. That they did so at the behest of their religion speaks volumes.

I hear what you are saying about the responsibility of America and reaping what we have sown, but what then is the answer for that part of the world? Self-government? Along the lines of what? Iran? Libya? Syria? Lebanon? Give the people in those countries the right to choose and I would support their choice. I have no doubt that the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas would do well in elections. So be it. If it is the choice and voice of the people, than that is what counts.

As far as the Protestants and Catholics in Ireland, look to the British. Home Rule has been an asbolutely unmitigated disaster for the Crown. Give Northern Ireland the same rights as Southern Ireland as far as franchise and self rule and most, if not all, of the problems would go away.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Rustico: I certainly don’t think you are picking on me, and the point of discourse is to be able to articulate differing viewpoints in a friendly environment.

I mentioned both the Germans and the Jesuits for the very reason you picked up on. Yup, there is a lot of stuff in both histories that is cringe making, but that is also the nature of history.

I also do not for a second believe that if oil weren’t present in Iraq, we would be there. “Trade follows the flag” is a truism now, was during the days of the British Empire and the Roman Empire as well. We are an empire, in name if not deed, but a fairly enlightened one to a certain extent. Of course, if history truly judges us, we are also a pretty brutal bunch in our own way.

That being said, I also think a fair reading of history will condemn Christians and Moslems alike. Islam is not a religion of peace and the “religion of the sword” comment is derived from Sura 9:5 in the Qu’ran (“The Sword Verse”) that makes it explicitly clear how Islam is to be spread to the non-believers.

While there are undoubtedly political motivations and machinations inherent to the fighting between the Sunnis and Shia, the larger issue is one of Quranic interpretation and this has inspired internecine warfare between the two sects for a lot longer than we have been in Iraq.

I really don’t have any ingrained dislike of Moslems or Islam, any more than I have a natural dislike of Buddhism, Shintoism or the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Belief in God and religiosity/spirituality are intensely personal decisions and not subject to my judgments as to whether or not they are correct. However, as with Nazism, Communism or the New York Yankees, some things are intrinsically wrong.

From a religious standpoint, any religion that actively seeks the subjugation of non-believers and does so in the name of God is a problem. If that is fundamentalist Christianity or fundamentalist Islam makes no difference to me. Last time I checked though, we didn’t have a group of priests or rabbis flying jumbo jets into skyscrapers. That they did so at the behest of their religion speaks volumes.

I hear what you are saying about the responsibility of America and reaping what we have sown, but what then is the answer for that part of the world? Self-government? Along the lines of what? Iran? Libya? Syria? Lebanon? Give the people in those countries the right to choose and I would support their choice. I have no doubt that the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas would do well in elections. So be it. If it is the choice and voice of the people, than that is what counts.

As far as the Protestants and Catholics in Ireland, look to the British. Home Rule has been an asbolutely unmitigated disaster for the Crown. Give Northern Ireland the same rights as Southern Ireland as far as franchise and self rule and most, if not all, of the problems would go away.

[Author]

Posts