[Allan from Fallbrook]

JordanT: Again, I’m not proposing anything, relative to an American intervention. Bush definitely diddled the dog on this one, and largely because he gave Georgia the impression that we would back them and then whiffed when Putin called his bluff and invaded.

That being said, the Russians are clearly exploiting a situation here, as evidenced by their using South Ossetia and Abkhazia as stalking horses for a larger expansionist policy. The fact that Russia was handing out Russian passports to members of both nationalities right up until a few weeks before the invasion, as well as the fact that Russia has been arming the more extemist elements of both speaks to some level of premeditation on Putin’s part.

And for those of you conflating Russia’s invasion of a sovereign nation (Georgia) that was dealing with two breakaways within it’s internationally recognized borders with our invasion of Iraq: Get real. We were enforcing UNSR 1441, which contained clear and irrevocable language regarding the use of force against Saddam. As to Afghanistan, we were invoking the right of self defense and the intel and subsequent events there justify that action beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Saying that we lack the “moral authority” to question Russia is a convenient cop out, and one the Europeans are using at present, hence my mention of the deafening silence of Germany and Italy.

The Europeans lack not only the military force to oppose Russia’s imperial designs, but they lack the will and cojones also. Putin knows how far to push this, and he has a two powerful weapons at his disposal: Russian control of a large chunk of the European energy market and European cowardice in the face of a determined foe.

We don’t have to go back to 1938 for an example; Spain’s collapse in the wake of the railroad bombings is very illustrative of the current timidity displayed by the Europeans and NATO and the UN as well. Russia’s bullying over Zimbabwe shows, in a clear cut example of supporting a murdering despotic ruler, how quickly we’ve returned to the bad old days of the Cold War.

Yeah, Russia is loaded with Moral Authority. That’s probably what they named the invasion of Georgia.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

JordanT: Again, I’m not proposing anything, relative to an American intervention. Bush definitely diddled the dog on this one, and largely because he gave Georgia the impression that we would back them and then whiffed when Putin called his bluff and invaded.

That being said, the Russians are clearly exploiting a situation here, as evidenced by their using South Ossetia and Abkhazia as stalking horses for a larger expansionist policy. The fact that Russia was handing out Russian passports to members of both nationalities right up until a few weeks before the invasion, as well as the fact that Russia has been arming the more extemist elements of both speaks to some level of premeditation on Putin’s part.

And for those of you conflating Russia’s invasion of a sovereign nation (Georgia) that was dealing with two breakaways within it’s internationally recognized borders with our invasion of Iraq: Get real. We were enforcing UNSR 1441, which contained clear and irrevocable language regarding the use of force against Saddam. As to Afghanistan, we were invoking the right of self defense and the intel and subsequent events there justify that action beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Saying that we lack the “moral authority” to question Russia is a convenient cop out, and one the Europeans are using at present, hence my mention of the deafening silence of Germany and Italy.

The Europeans lack not only the military force to oppose Russia’s imperial designs, but they lack the will and cojones also. Putin knows how far to push this, and he has a two powerful weapons at his disposal: Russian control of a large chunk of the European energy market and European cowardice in the face of a determined foe.

We don’t have to go back to 1938 for an example; Spain’s collapse in the wake of the railroad bombings is very illustrative of the current timidity displayed by the Europeans and NATO and the UN as well. Russia’s bullying over Zimbabwe shows, in a clear cut example of supporting a murdering despotic ruler, how quickly we’ve returned to the bad old days of the Cold War.

Yeah, Russia is loaded with Moral Authority. That’s probably what they named the invasion of Georgia.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

JordanT: Again, I’m not proposing anything, relative to an American intervention. Bush definitely diddled the dog on this one, and largely because he gave Georgia the impression that we would back them and then whiffed when Putin called his bluff and invaded.

That being said, the Russians are clearly exploiting a situation here, as evidenced by their using South Ossetia and Abkhazia as stalking horses for a larger expansionist policy. The fact that Russia was handing out Russian passports to members of both nationalities right up until a few weeks before the invasion, as well as the fact that Russia has been arming the more extemist elements of both speaks to some level of premeditation on Putin’s part.

And for those of you conflating Russia’s invasion of a sovereign nation (Georgia) that was dealing with two breakaways within it’s internationally recognized borders with our invasion of Iraq: Get real. We were enforcing UNSR 1441, which contained clear and irrevocable language regarding the use of force against Saddam. As to Afghanistan, we were invoking the right of self defense and the intel and subsequent events there justify that action beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Saying that we lack the “moral authority” to question Russia is a convenient cop out, and one the Europeans are using at present, hence my mention of the deafening silence of Germany and Italy.

The Europeans lack not only the military force to oppose Russia’s imperial designs, but they lack the will and cojones also. Putin knows how far to push this, and he has a two powerful weapons at his disposal: Russian control of a large chunk of the European energy market and European cowardice in the face of a determined foe.

We don’t have to go back to 1938 for an example; Spain’s collapse in the wake of the railroad bombings is very illustrative of the current timidity displayed by the Europeans and NATO and the UN as well. Russia’s bullying over Zimbabwe shows, in a clear cut example of supporting a murdering despotic ruler, how quickly we’ve returned to the bad old days of the Cold War.

Yeah, Russia is loaded with Moral Authority. That’s probably what they named the invasion of Georgia.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

JordanT: I wasn’t talking about the US Army. This is, first and foremost, a European problem. Between NATO and CSCE, there are sufficient grounds for action. And, yes, I’m aware that Georgia is not a member of NATO, but Russia’s saber rattling has wider implications for Europe as a whole. You’ll notice the deafening silence emanating from Germany and Italy at present as well.

We’re “bogged down” in Iraq and Afghanistan? Really? According to whom? The combat phase of Iraq is essentially over and the problems in Afghanistan are largely a function of the hand over to NATO and UN forces, most of which don’t like to venture off of their bases and actually engage the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

As to the readiness state of our military, even if we were at a maximum state of readiness, we lack sufficent offensive power to conduct a war of maneuver in Europe, and that is thanks to Dubya’s daddy and Clinton and the massive reductions in force of our first line armored, mechanized and infantry divisions. The best we could do at this point is send in the 82d Airborne and hope Putin doesn’t call our bluff.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

JordanT: I wasn’t talking about the US Army. This is, first and foremost, a European problem. Between NATO and CSCE, there are sufficient grounds for action. And, yes, I’m aware that Georgia is not a member of NATO, but Russia’s saber rattling has wider implications for Europe as a whole. You’ll notice the deafening silence emanating from Germany and Italy at present as well.

We’re “bogged down” in Iraq and Afghanistan? Really? According to whom? The combat phase of Iraq is essentially over and the problems in Afghanistan are largely a function of the hand over to NATO and UN forces, most of which don’t like to venture off of their bases and actually engage the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

As to the readiness state of our military, even if we were at a maximum state of readiness, we lack sufficent offensive power to conduct a war of maneuver in Europe, and that is thanks to Dubya’s daddy and Clinton and the massive reductions in force of our first line armored, mechanized and infantry divisions. The best we could do at this point is send in the 82d Airborne and hope Putin doesn’t call our bluff.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

JordanT: I wasn’t talking about the US Army. This is, first and foremost, a European problem. Between NATO and CSCE, there are sufficient grounds for action. And, yes, I’m aware that Georgia is not a member of NATO, but Russia’s saber rattling has wider implications for Europe as a whole. You’ll notice the deafening silence emanating from Germany and Italy at present as well.

We’re “bogged down” in Iraq and Afghanistan? Really? According to whom? The combat phase of Iraq is essentially over and the problems in Afghanistan are largely a function of the hand over to NATO and UN forces, most of which don’t like to venture off of their bases and actually engage the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

As to the readiness state of our military, even if we were at a maximum state of readiness, we lack sufficent offensive power to conduct a war of maneuver in Europe, and that is thanks to Dubya’s daddy and Clinton and the massive reductions in force of our first line armored, mechanized and infantry divisions. The best we could do at this point is send in the 82d Airborne and hope Putin doesn’t call our bluff.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

JordanT: I wasn’t talking about the US Army. This is, first and foremost, a European problem. Between NATO and CSCE, there are sufficient grounds for action. And, yes, I’m aware that Georgia is not a member of NATO, but Russia’s saber rattling has wider implications for Europe as a whole. You’ll notice the deafening silence emanating from Germany and Italy at present as well.

We’re “bogged down” in Iraq and Afghanistan? Really? According to whom? The combat phase of Iraq is essentially over and the problems in Afghanistan are largely a function of the hand over to NATO and UN forces, most of which don’t like to venture off of their bases and actually engage the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

As to the readiness state of our military, even if we were at a maximum state of readiness, we lack sufficent offensive power to conduct a war of maneuver in Europe, and that is thanks to Dubya’s daddy and Clinton and the massive reductions in force of our first line armored, mechanized and infantry divisions. The best we could do at this point is send in the 82d Airborne and hope Putin doesn’t call our bluff.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

JordanT: I wasn’t talking about the US Army. This is, first and foremost, a European problem. Between NATO and CSCE, there are sufficient grounds for action. And, yes, I’m aware that Georgia is not a member of NATO, but Russia’s saber rattling has wider implications for Europe as a whole. You’ll notice the deafening silence emanating from Germany and Italy at present as well.

We’re “bogged down” in Iraq and Afghanistan? Really? According to whom? The combat phase of Iraq is essentially over and the problems in Afghanistan are largely a function of the hand over to NATO and UN forces, most of which don’t like to venture off of their bases and actually engage the Taliban and al-Qaeda.

As to the readiness state of our military, even if we were at a maximum state of readiness, we lack sufficent offensive power to conduct a war of maneuver in Europe, and that is thanks to Dubya’s daddy and Clinton and the massive reductions in force of our first line armored, mechanized and infantry divisions. The best we could do at this point is send in the 82d Airborne and hope Putin doesn’t call our bluff.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

pedrocon: Absolutely! Because as Hitler showed us, it is so much better to appease power hungry ultranationalists bent on regional domination than to confront them.

I hear the ghost of Neville Chamberlain calling out “Peace in our time!”.

Actually Santayana put it better when he opined that those that don’t learn from the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

pedrocon: Absolutely! Because as Hitler showed us, it is so much better to appease power hungry ultranationalists bent on regional domination than to confront them.

I hear the ghost of Neville Chamberlain calling out “Peace in our time!”.

Actually Santayana put it better when he opined that those that don’t learn from the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

pedrocon: Absolutely! Because as Hitler showed us, it is so much better to appease power hungry ultranationalists bent on regional domination than to confront them.

I hear the ghost of Neville Chamberlain calling out “Peace in our time!”.

Actually Santayana put it better when he opined that those that don’t learn from the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

pedrocon: Absolutely! Because as Hitler showed us, it is so much better to appease power hungry ultranationalists bent on regional domination than to confront them.

I hear the ghost of Neville Chamberlain calling out “Peace in our time!”.

Actually Santayana put it better when he opined that those that don’t learn from the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

pedrocon: Absolutely! Because as Hitler showed us, it is so much better to appease power hungry ultranationalists bent on regional domination than to confront them.

I hear the ghost of Neville Chamberlain calling out “Peace in our time!”.

Actually Santayana put it better when he opined that those that don’t learn from the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

qwerty: Putin is a member of Pamyat (“Memory”), an ultranationalist movement that is intent on restoring Russia to her former glory.

This is absolutely Russia flexing her muscles and Putin has made it obvious that he doesn’t fear the US or NATO. This situation was tailor made for him and he is exploiting it to the utmost.

Forget Cold War rhetoric. Even when they were Communist, the Russians were the Russians, and fixated on a return to empire. This is a country steeped in culture and history, and also one with a long memory.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

qwerty: Putin is a member of Pamyat (“Memory”), an ultranationalist movement that is intent on restoring Russia to her former glory.

This is absolutely Russia flexing her muscles and Putin has made it obvious that he doesn’t fear the US or NATO. This situation was tailor made for him and he is exploiting it to the utmost.

Forget Cold War rhetoric. Even when they were Communist, the Russians were the Russians, and fixated on a return to empire. This is a country steeped in culture and history, and also one with a long memory.

[Author]

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