Timeshares

[admin]

Anyone bought timeshares before?

I’m thinking that could be a good investment if you bought at the right price.

[earlyretirement]

I’m not a big fan of timeshares. I’ve just seen and heard and read about too many people getting burned on them. The risk/reward doesn’t seem worth it to me in most cases that I’ve seen.

Where are you thinking of buying FlyerinHi? How is your rental property doing that you mentioned last year? Are you doing short-term vacation rentals in it?

[an]

Timeshare drastically decrease in price in resale market, so if you really want to get a timeshare, resale is definitely the way to go. If you like to return to the same place every year and you have a lot of time to travel, then it might make sense. Personally, I would much rather just buy investment properties in those places if I really want to return to the same place. However, I tend to prefer traveling to new places, so timeshare won’t make much sense for me.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=AN]Timeshare drastically decrease in price in resale market, so if you really want to get a timeshare, resale is definitely the way to go. If you like to return to the same place every year and you have a lot of time to travel, then it might make sense. Personally, I would much rather just buy investment properties in those places if I really want to return to the same place. However, I tend to prefer traveling to new places, so timeshare won’t make much sense for me.[/quote]

I agree with either buying investment properties in those places vs. a time share. The wildcard is having an excellent property manager which makes all the difference in the world.

Personally I prefer doing home exchanges. They work beautifully if you already own a property in a desirable tourist destination. You can go to sites like http://www.homeexchange.com and arrange swaps all over the world.

I’ve done over 40 swaps over the years just using one of my vacation properties and been to some great places and the cities we especially love we have made friendships with the owners so we go every year.

I’m sure there are probably some instances where timeshares work and ROI also works well but as mentioned, I’ve just seen too many nightmare scenarios with assessments to want to get involved with them.

[dumbrenter]

Any idea of how the property management fees are structured? is it the same or different?

[spdrun]

Not much room for raising rents or increasing values via improvements. I’d steer clear unless you’re doing it for amusement or for a vacation pad.

[Downtowner]

Ok, first never think of a timeshare as a “real estate” investment. You are actually investing in “vacation time” – What you are actually doing is somewhat fixing your vacation lodging costs over time. You are saying I want a certain level of accommodations (not a hotel) that I can expect every year and I pay a relatively fix cost (maintenance fee) each year and I can exchange for a different location if I want to (and pay a fee for that).

2nd – never ever buy a timeshare from a developer! You can get them at a fraction of the cost in the resale market. I own 2 and did not pay a dime for either of them. That’s right you can find many timeshares that all you need to do is transfer ownership and start paying the annual maintenance fees and it’s yours.

Anyway, timeshares can be great if your expectations are just about an annual vacation, if you start thinking you will get some type of ROI (other than vacation enjoyment) you will be disappointed.

[UCGal]

I’m a big fan of renting other people’s timeshares – often for about the cost of the annual maintenance on their time share. There’s a resort in cabo I’ve been to a few times that I like to rent at.

Like ER – I use homeshares, VRBO, but also look at timeshares – since I prefer a place with a kitchen and separate bedroom (when travelling with kids.)

Timeshares commit you to the same place and/or the same family of timeshares for the same week, every year. Might work if you have a fixed vacation – but it’s too inflexible for me.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=Downtowner]Ok, first never think of a timeshare as a “real estate” investment. You are actually investing in “vacation time” – What you are actually doing is somewhat fixing your vacation lodging costs over time. You are saying I want a certain level of accommodations (not a hotel) that I can expect every year and I pay a relatively fix cost (maintenance fee) each year and I can exchange for a different location if I want to (and pay a fee for that).

2nd – never ever buy a timeshare from a developer! You can get them at a fraction of the cost in the resale market. I own 2 and did not pay a dime for either of them. That’s right you can find many timeshares that all you need to do is transfer ownership and start paying the annual maintenance fees and it’s yours.

Anyway, timeshares can be great if your expectations are just about an annual vacation, if you start thinking you will get some type of ROI (other than vacation enjoyment) you will be disappointed.[/quote]

BINGO! That’s exactly right. I was going to mention the investing in “vacation time” as that is how I look at timeshares as well. I think the people that look at it that way vs. a “real estate investment” can come out ahead.

There are TONS of time share schemes but I know a few people that seem happy with their time shares with Marriott’s program. They don’t look at it as an investment but simply prepaying vacation lodging for the next 20+ years. They apparently can use many many Marriott properties all around the world and do.

Downtowner nailed it again when he/she mentioned that there are lots of people that you can find these either free or low cost because they simply want out of the obligations of HOA, expenses or heavy assessments. Heck, even just surf around on travel related sites like TripAdvisor and you will find people that want to give up their timeshares and feel burned.

I totally agree with Downtowner you have to understand the fundamental “investment” of a time share.

[quote=UCGal]I’m a big fan of renting other people’s timeshares – often for about the cost of the annual maintenance on their time share. There’s a resort in cabo I’ve been to a few times that I like to rent at.

Like ER – I use homeshares, VRBO, but also look at timeshares – since I prefer a place with a kitchen and separate bedroom (when travelling with kids.)

Timeshares commit you to the same place and/or the same family of timeshares for the same week, every year. Might work if you have a fixed vacation – but it’s too inflexible for me.[/quote]

Oh yeah. I totally agree with you UCGal. We’ve rented other people’s timeshares before for fairly low cost but that was before we really got into the Home Exchanges. Since then we really haven’t as the home exchanges work so well.

There are more choices than ever for people that travel and don’t want or can’t rent a hotel room because of the space, lack of kitchen, washing machine/dryers, etc. VRBO, Homeaway, Flipkey, AirBnb. So many options these days.

We always try to avoid hotels.

[CA renter]

Still wish I could get over the fear of doing a home exchange with our primary residence.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=CA renter]Still wish I could get over the fear of doing a home exchange with our primary residence.[/quote]

I don’t blame you CAR. I wouldn’t mind using our primary residence for a home exchange but my wife absolutely will NOT allow me to do that. Fortunately we own several investment properties so it works out well.

But more times than not, we’re swapping with someone on their existing property. Before we moved to San Diego, we did several exchanges with owners in SD on primary residences. Worked out well.

[FlyerInHi]

As Downtowner mentioned, I’m thinking about taking over a timeshare on the resale market. I definitely would not buy from the developer.

I have heard of people loving their timeshares; and of course, horror stories are all over the Net. Generally people don’t talk about their bad investments in a social setting because they don’t want to burden the listener.

I’m thinking timeshare in Hawaii or Las Vegas, if I can get a deal. I suppose I need to do more research on the costs.

ER, I have a condo on VRBO. It’s working out well.. but it’s work… I need to find a better cleaning crew.

I would like to do VRBO or airbnb on a condo in NYC, but I hear that the city is cracking down on that.

[spdrun]

^^^

No law against an apartment swap for a week (no monetary compensation) or renting out part of one’s own apartment for under a month, if one is staying there.

Also, I can’t speak to AirBnB/VRBO, but there are plenty of short-term situations on Craigslist (search sublets for “week”, “weekly”, or the name of a month, as in “March” 9-15). Technically illegal, but unless one is an idiot about it and rents to a bunch of annoying party kids or an axe murderer, no one will say anything about it.

Examples…
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/sub/4360039045.html
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/sub/4360228727.html
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/sub/4360170772.html

See also…
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/williamsburg-bursting-airbnb-rentals-article-1.1614996

The good thing about NYC is that if it doesn’t annoy anyone, it’s generally tolerated with the exception of occasional well-publicized crackdowns that go away after a while. Witness every new mayor since Lindsay trying to fine jaywalkers, and the campaigns mercifully going away after a few weeks of unpleasantness.

[earlyretirement]

[quote=spdrun]^^^

No law against an apartment swap for a week (no monetary compensation) or renting out part of one’s own apartment for under a month, if one is staying there.

Also, I can’t speak to AirBnB/VRBO, but there are plenty of short-term situations on Craigslist (search sublets for “week”, “weekly”, or the name of a month, as in “March” 9-15). Technically illegal, but unless one is an idiot about it and rents to a bunch of annoying party kids or an axe murderer, no one will say anything about it.

Examples…
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/sub/4360039045.html
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/sub/4360228727.html
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/sub/4360170772.html

See also…
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/williamsburg-bursting-airbnb-rentals-article-1.1614996

The good thing about NYC is that if it doesn’t annoy anyone, it’s generally tolerated with the exception of occasional well-publicized crackdowns that go away after a while. Witness every new mayor since Lindsay trying to fine jaywalkers, and the campaigns mercifully going away after a few weeks of unpleasantness.[/quote]

Yep. I totally agree with you spdrun. There are all kinds of people that are renting out their properties in New York. I know they have laws against it (same as in Paris) but it’s almost impossible to enforce if you structure things the right way and set the right expectations on the front end.

I have friends that do in both cities even in building where it’s supposedly not allowed and they do a good job screening their potential guests as well as setting the right expectation BEFORE taking the booking.

I’ve done home exchanges with people in NYC almost every single year and never had issues. They typically fed ex me the key ahead of time and set the guidelines for the building/doorman, etc. There is a right and a wrong way to do them.

[quote=FlyerInHi]As Downtowner mentioned, I’m thinking about taking over a timeshare on the resale market. I definitely would not buy from the developer.

I have heard of people loving their timeshares; and of course, horror stories are all over the Net. Generally people don’t talk about their bad investments in a social setting because they don’t want to burden the listener.

I’m thinking timeshare in Hawaii or Las Vegas, if I can get a deal. I suppose I need to do more research on the costs.

ER, I have a condo on VRBO. It’s working out well.. but it’s work… I need to find a better cleaning crew.

I would like to do VRBO or airbnb on a condo in NYC, but I hear that the city is cracking down on that.[/quote]

I’m sure you can probably find a deal that works for you. Still, lots of horror stories out there for me to ever get involved in timeshares but I’m sure there are some good opportunities out there.

FlyerinHI, VRBO is really good. I’ve been advertising mine on there for many many years and always get quality tenants. Check out Homeaway and even AirBnb.com I’m getting a larger and larger percentage of my bookings each year. They have really done a great job of building their business.

No doubt there are LOTS of hassles of the short-term or vacation rental property. The key is having a good manager. Absolutely what you mentioned with good cleaning crew is one of the toughest things I had to deal with in all my years of property management.

At one time, I was managing over 250+ vacation short-term rental properties and the absolute toughest problem I had to deal with was finding good, qualified and HONEST cleaning people. I didn’t have a problem finding office staff, check-in/out staff, professionals. It was always the cleaning staff that was the real pain.

[FlyerInHi]

250 rentals… That’s a lot!

I’m not experienced enough to do vacation rentals remotely. Maybe it’ll come with time.

I don’t mind the work, because I know it will pay off in the end. I still have to inspect to make sure that everything is in good order. It was kinda fun at first and you get a sense of pride thinking “this is mine”, but it gets old quick.

[Author]

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