They will never be fogotten

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=pri_dk]
The attack was a strategic military action against the military assets an adversary already engaged in the conflict. In short, it was fair game.

[/quote]

Pri: I found the above comment curious. “…adversary already engaged in the conflict”. Where, exactly, were we engaged in the conflict? Are you speaking of the Lend-Lease Program? Or were there US forces actively participating in the war that I hadn’t heard of?

[Anonymous]

Allan,

The “good points” I was referring to were Ogre’s general opinions about the military goals of the US being typically less than noble, and the unnecessary size of the US military industrial complex.

Once again, you are being extremely selective about what you hear, reading far to much into single words, and extrapolating to the extreme.

I’m not really interested in getting into another one of these debates where you change the meanings of your own words and mine as we go along.

Perhaps I am an idiot for interpreting phrases like “drive a blade into the Iranian regime” as meaning something other than an act of confrontation, but so be it.

So let’s just skip the semantic debate over the word “engaged,” or whatever word it is that caused your irritation.

Carry on with your war against “leftist” trolls…

[scaredyclassic]

But getting back to heroism, there is a deep void in America. We do have a real hunger for heroes. Fake sports heroes and movie stars don’t cut it. Maybe 9-11 is trying to fill that void.

I realize there is literally no one I look up to and admire or say hey I’d like to be more like him. I do sort of admire the Japanese bicycle parts mfr called Nitto. They do good work not sure I want to be like them though

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=pri_dk]Allan,

The “good points” I was referring to were Ogre’s general opinions about the military goals of the US being typically less than noble, and the unnecessary size of the US military industrial complex.

Once again, you are being extremely selective about what you hear, reading far to much into single words, and extrapolating to the extreme.

I’m not really interested in getting into another one of these debates where you change the meanings of your own words and mine as we go along.

Perhaps I am an idiot for interpreting phrases like “drive a blade into the Iranian regime” as meaning something other than an act of confrontation, but so be it.

So let’s just skip the semantic debate over the word “engaged,” or whatever word it is that caused your irritation.

Carry on with your war against “leftist” trolls…[/quote]

Pri: Where was the US engaged? Those were your words, not mine, and I didn’t twist anything at all.

I also never accused Mr. Ogre of being a Leftist troll, either. I took issue with what is demonstrably rank revisionism and what stands in direct contradiction to the facts and evidence, along with a huge body of scholarship as to the causes of the Pacific War.

I don’t disagree with the bulk of what he said regarding “military welfare” and the creation of our National Security State. You’ve heard me bang on incessantly about civil liberties and the frightening erosion of same. Given where I spent my time in the 1980s whilst in the Army, I also will wholeheartedly agree with our less than pure motives, especially when it comes to resource extraction. Since I didn’t and don’t disagree with it, I didn’t challenge it, nor did I bring it up. That isn’t selective, by the way, I simply chose not to argue points I don’t disagree with. However, conflating Japanese militarism with the victims of Stalin and Pol Pot was simply a bridge too far and thus my response.

Again, I’d like an answer to my question. Where and when was the US actively participating in hostilities prior to the December 7, 1941 attack at Pearl Harbor? Its a fair question.

[scaredyclassic]

America is hungry for heroes.

Who did people heroicize back in WWII? Their dads?

[all]

[quote=walterwhite]America is hungry for heroes.

Who did people heroicize back in WWII? Their dads?[/quote]

Anthony Weiner, since there was no Twitter.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=walterwhite]America is hungry for heroes.

Who did people heroicize back in WWII? Their dads?[/quote]

Yeah, for me growing up it was my dad. He’d been in the Marines in WWII and Korea and never talked about his experiences. Came home after Korea and got his master’s in Aeronautical Engineering on the GI Bill (he’d been in school working on it when the Korean War broke out) and went to work. I didn’t find out until after I got out of the Army that he had decorations out the wazoo, including 2 Bronze Stars and a Medal of Valor.

My uncle (his brother) was the same way. Flew fighters for the Marines in WWII and Korea, got his MBA from Stanford and went to work for Merrill Lynch. He was badly shot up during WWII (he carried most of a pair of Japanese 20mm cannon shells in his back until the day he died), but volunteered to fly again during Korea.

No bragging, no swagger, just quiet professionals who did their duty on behalf of their country. Neither my dad nor my uncle glorified war, to the contrary, both abhorred war, but understood that, sometimes, you don’t have the option of not fighting.

[briansd1]

Arraya, thanks for posting the Ron Paul article. With regard to war, I absolute agree with Paul.

The truth is that ending these misguided wars and occupations will make us safer, more prosperous and more free.

I do believe that some wars were necessary but the wars of choice we’ve have been embarking on have been disastrous. Vietnam could have been avoided if he had left the French to their own devices.

Allan likes to talk about driving blade in the heart of Iranian regime. Serves us right for overthrowing Mossadegh.

In many ways, the situation in the Middle East is of our own making.

I agree with John Ogre. Attempting to control everything to our liking is not worth the money and the psychological mind bending.

[Veritas]

Awesome post, awesome family!

[briansd1]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
No bragging, no swagger, just quiet professionals who did their duty on behalf of their country. Neither my dad nor my uncle glorified war, to the contrary, both abhorred war, but understood that, sometimes, you don’t have the option of not fighting.[/quote]

Well, people are not like your dad and uncle anymore.

Everybody is a hero these days. People brag about everything, mostly their children.

When I hear that surviving cancer makes one a hero, I feel like the word hero has been debased.

Some people will do heroic things but they are not heroes. Is a war hero who is a wife beater a real hero?

These days, people know everything about people whereas in the past the dirty laundry was not aired so we only knew of the good deeds.

In the past Lance Armstrong might have been a hero. But we all know that he’s a fake and a doper.

[scaredyclassic]

Idolizing a guy like lance is silly. Yeah he’s tough but even if he never used drugs, he’s still a physical freak. His heart amd lungs are not like yours mine or 99.9999999999 percent of the poluation. He’s a giant air bellows. It’s not fair to race him. And it’s like idolizing the dunking ability of an 8 footer.

[Arraya]

[quote=briansd1]

The truth is that ending these misguided wars and occupations will make us safer, more prosperous and more free.

I do believe that some wars were necessary but the wars of choice we’ve have been embarking on have been disastrous. .[/quote]

What Ron Paul does not acknowledge is the amount of jobs that were created from the 9/11 economy. It’s a large industry in itself and backing out the housing bubble would probably make it the biggest growth economy of the past decade. Though, I agree in a debt sense(which does not seem to matter or at least hasn’t yet) and in a moral and spiritual sense, we would be much more prosperous without the way things were conducted both militarily and PR wise. Instead, it’s like a metastasizing tumor in our soul and balance sheet that really fuels the justifications for it’s own existence. The way the country is “remembering” 9/11 is the opposite of historical, which is how we should be dealing with it. Putting it into the context of the US’ 20th and 21st century history is what we should be doing, not making a religion of it.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=briansd1][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
No bragging, no swagger, just quiet professionals who did their duty on behalf of their country. Neither my dad nor my uncle glorified war, to the contrary, both abhorred war, but understood that, sometimes, you don’t have the option of not fighting.[/quote]

Well, people are not like your dad and uncle anymore.

Everybody is a hero these days. People brag about everything, mostly their children.

[/quote]

Brian: Actually, there are plenty of people like my dad and uncle around. I served with them in the military and they abound as firefighters, police officers, EMTs, etc. Quiet professionals and unsung heroes, the “unsung” being the most important part.

I had to laugh at your comment about people and their children. As a coach, I see this nonsense every season and it cracks me up. We are such an ego-driven, “me-me-me” society that everyone truly believes they’re special. Sadly, it isn’t true, but it doesn’t stop it from happening.

[briansd1]

[quote=Arraya]

What Ron Paul does not acknowledge is the amount of jobs that were created from the 9/11 economy. It’s a large industry in itself and backing out the housing bubble would probably make it the biggest growth economy of the past decade. [/quote]

Absolutely.

The 9/11 security economy is huge. It’s provided good well-paying jobs for a decade. But the biggest problem is that this industry is not productive.

In the end, the 9/11 security industry and the military will bankrupt us, unless with have other industries to pay the bills.

Incidentally, our health problems will bankrupt us also, but that will take many decades to pay out.

[scaredyclassic]

Could it be a function of a shrinking pie. When the pie is growing, and an average person can thrive, there is less need to selfpromote. When times are tough and the rat race is more stressful, each eat must practice better grooming and appear better than the other rats.

[Author]

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