The Pigs are Famous… OK act cool everybody, there a flood of new members on the horizon?

[CA renter]

[quote=Doooh]”Responsibility and Liability”- Start a buisness and then tell me what liability looks like. Operate heavy equipment, drive a tractor cross country then tell me about responsibility.

Liability… you act like you carry a gun for a living.

Teachers piss me off the more they open their mouths. If you haven’t noticed were sick of your over statements while you hold out your hands. It’s hit a boiling point in this society. I could only ask that you keep it up as to piss more people off.

This coming from a chap who wants to go back to school for a credential so I can have summers off.[/quote]

There is no “you” here. I am not a teacher. Do yourself a favor, and debate the topic rather than sling personal insults and spew emotional sludge. You will make better points and be able to use LOGIC and FACTS to convince people about your opinions.

Teachers have far more liabilty and responsibility than someone who operates heavy equipment or drives a truck for a living. They are responsible for people’s children, physically, mentally, and emotionally, every single day. There is no comparison. If a heavy equipment operator screws up and damages property, it’s only money. If a teacher screws up and loses a student or a student gets injured while in the teacher’s care, it’s a human life — not to mention an entire year of that child’s life being “lost” if the teacher doesn’t keep him/her on grade level or better. Lawsuits against teachers and school districts are constantly being fought. You might not have realized that. Any public entity is viewed as a “deep pocket” by the scammers, so they have to be especially careful, which is why they have MUCH HIGHER standards than similar jobs in the private sector.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=CA renter] . . . Yes, there are many difficult “white collar” jobs, but there are very few that deal with the type of stress that teachers deal with, especially as it relates to difficult students (behaviorally, mentally, physically), and in trying to get a *very diverse* group of students to understand the quality and quantity of material required to “pass the tests,” and/or advance to the next grade.[/quote]

I’ve seen more than a few public school teachers in action in my day at ALL grade levels and I just have to say that I have the utmost respect for what they do and the results they get from what (and who) they have to work with. They don’t have any choice in their working conditions. I myself couldn’t do the job without losing it my first week and getting the ax. I don’t have the patience or personality for the job but am grateful that there are people out there that do, and excel at it.

In addition, I have several relatives that are retired teachers. Most have taught in (or ran, as principal) public schools more than 30 years. Sure, they receive a pension, but none are living lavishly. The ones that are still ineligible for Medicare have to PAY several hundred per month for their healthcare out of their pensions and are only offered HMO’s thru their retirement assns. I don’t think their benefits are that great after retirement. Fortunately, for my relatives, their homes and other properties are paid off so they are okay. I am unsure if this is the norm for the majority of retired CA teachers, but it could be. Teachers tend to buy their home near the school they end up at as a longtime teacher. Like policemen/women, teachers don’t mind living in the same areas where they work. Therefore, most of their mortgages aren’t/weren’t as high as they might have been had they been in a different line of work where they would be worried about their “image.”

I never met a cop or a teacher that was not down to earth, pragmatic and realistic.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=CA renter] . . . Yes, there are many difficult “white collar” jobs, but there are very few that deal with the type of stress that teachers deal with, especially as it relates to difficult students (behaviorally, mentally, physically), and in trying to get a *very diverse* group of students to understand the quality and quantity of material required to “pass the tests,” and/or advance to the next grade.[/quote]

I’ve seen more than a few public school teachers in action in my day at ALL grade levels and I just have to say that I have the utmost respect for what they do and the results they get from what (and who) they have to work with. They don’t have any choice in their working conditions. I myself couldn’t do the job without losing it my first week and getting the ax. I don’t have the patience or personality for the job but am grateful that there are people out there that do, and excel at it.

In addition, I have several relatives that are retired teachers. Most have taught in (or ran, as principal) public schools more than 30 years. Sure, they receive a pension, but none are living lavishly. The ones that are still ineligible for Medicare have to PAY several hundred per month for their healthcare out of their pensions and are only offered HMO’s thru their retirement assns. I don’t think their benefits are that great after retirement. Fortunately, for my relatives, their homes and other properties are paid off so they are okay. I am unsure if this is the norm for the majority of retired CA teachers, but it could be. Teachers tend to buy their home near the school they end up at as a longtime teacher. Like policemen/women, teachers don’t mind living in the same areas where they work. Therefore, most of their mortgages aren’t/weren’t as high as they might have been had they been in a different line of work where they would be worried about their “image.”

I never met a cop or a teacher that was not down to earth, pragmatic and realistic.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=CA renter] . . . Yes, there are many difficult “white collar” jobs, but there are very few that deal with the type of stress that teachers deal with, especially as it relates to difficult students (behaviorally, mentally, physically), and in trying to get a *very diverse* group of students to understand the quality and quantity of material required to “pass the tests,” and/or advance to the next grade.[/quote]

I’ve seen more than a few public school teachers in action in my day at ALL grade levels and I just have to say that I have the utmost respect for what they do and the results they get from what (and who) they have to work with. They don’t have any choice in their working conditions. I myself couldn’t do the job without losing it my first week and getting the ax. I don’t have the patience or personality for the job but am grateful that there are people out there that do, and excel at it.

In addition, I have several relatives that are retired teachers. Most have taught in (or ran, as principal) public schools more than 30 years. Sure, they receive a pension, but none are living lavishly. The ones that are still ineligible for Medicare have to PAY several hundred per month for their healthcare out of their pensions and are only offered HMO’s thru their retirement assns. I don’t think their benefits are that great after retirement. Fortunately, for my relatives, their homes and other properties are paid off so they are okay. I am unsure if this is the norm for the majority of retired CA teachers, but it could be. Teachers tend to buy their home near the school they end up at as a longtime teacher. Like policemen/women, teachers don’t mind living in the same areas where they work. Therefore, most of their mortgages aren’t/weren’t as high as they might have been had they been in a different line of work where they would be worried about their “image.”

I never met a cop or a teacher that was not down to earth, pragmatic and realistic.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=CA renter] . . . Yes, there are many difficult “white collar” jobs, but there are very few that deal with the type of stress that teachers deal with, especially as it relates to difficult students (behaviorally, mentally, physically), and in trying to get a *very diverse* group of students to understand the quality and quantity of material required to “pass the tests,” and/or advance to the next grade.[/quote]

I’ve seen more than a few public school teachers in action in my day at ALL grade levels and I just have to say that I have the utmost respect for what they do and the results they get from what (and who) they have to work with. They don’t have any choice in their working conditions. I myself couldn’t do the job without losing it my first week and getting the ax. I don’t have the patience or personality for the job but am grateful that there are people out there that do, and excel at it.

In addition, I have several relatives that are retired teachers. Most have taught in (or ran, as principal) public schools more than 30 years. Sure, they receive a pension, but none are living lavishly. The ones that are still ineligible for Medicare have to PAY several hundred per month for their healthcare out of their pensions and are only offered HMO’s thru their retirement assns. I don’t think their benefits are that great after retirement. Fortunately, for my relatives, their homes and other properties are paid off so they are okay. I am unsure if this is the norm for the majority of retired CA teachers, but it could be. Teachers tend to buy their home near the school they end up at as a longtime teacher. Like policemen/women, teachers don’t mind living in the same areas where they work. Therefore, most of their mortgages aren’t/weren’t as high as they might have been had they been in a different line of work where they would be worried about their “image.”

I never met a cop or a teacher that was not down to earth, pragmatic and realistic.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=CA renter] . . . Yes, there are many difficult “white collar” jobs, but there are very few that deal with the type of stress that teachers deal with, especially as it relates to difficult students (behaviorally, mentally, physically), and in trying to get a *very diverse* group of students to understand the quality and quantity of material required to “pass the tests,” and/or advance to the next grade.[/quote]

I’ve seen more than a few public school teachers in action in my day at ALL grade levels and I just have to say that I have the utmost respect for what they do and the results they get from what (and who) they have to work with. They don’t have any choice in their working conditions. I myself couldn’t do the job without losing it my first week and getting the ax. I don’t have the patience or personality for the job but am grateful that there are people out there that do, and excel at it.

In addition, I have several relatives that are retired teachers. Most have taught in (or ran, as principal) public schools more than 30 years. Sure, they receive a pension, but none are living lavishly. The ones that are still ineligible for Medicare have to PAY several hundred per month for their healthcare out of their pensions and are only offered HMO’s thru their retirement assns. I don’t think their benefits are that great after retirement. Fortunately, for my relatives, their homes and other properties are paid off so they are okay. I am unsure if this is the norm for the majority of retired CA teachers, but it could be. Teachers tend to buy their home near the school they end up at as a longtime teacher. Like policemen/women, teachers don’t mind living in the same areas where they work. Therefore, most of their mortgages aren’t/weren’t as high as they might have been had they been in a different line of work where they would be worried about their “image.”

I never met a cop or a teacher that was not down to earth, pragmatic and realistic.

[paramount]

[quote=CA renter]
BTW, our states are not going broke because of the unions. They are going broke because of the boom/bust policies of the Federal Reserve.[/quote]

Actually it’s due to both and while were at it, let’s
throw in illegal immigration.

Forced “austerity” for private sector workers has long been in place; now it’s the public employees turn. It’s already started in Wisconsin and spreading.

[paramount]

[quote=CA renter]
BTW, our states are not going broke because of the unions. They are going broke because of the boom/bust policies of the Federal Reserve.[/quote]

Actually it’s due to both and while were at it, let’s
throw in illegal immigration.

Forced “austerity” for private sector workers has long been in place; now it’s the public employees turn. It’s already started in Wisconsin and spreading.

[paramount]

[quote=CA renter]
BTW, our states are not going broke because of the unions. They are going broke because of the boom/bust policies of the Federal Reserve.[/quote]

Actually it’s due to both and while were at it, let’s
throw in illegal immigration.

Forced “austerity” for private sector workers has long been in place; now it’s the public employees turn. It’s already started in Wisconsin and spreading.

[paramount]

[quote=CA renter]
BTW, our states are not going broke because of the unions. They are going broke because of the boom/bust policies of the Federal Reserve.[/quote]

Actually it’s due to both and while were at it, let’s
throw in illegal immigration.

Forced “austerity” for private sector workers has long been in place; now it’s the public employees turn. It’s already started in Wisconsin and spreading.

[paramount]

[quote=CA renter]
BTW, our states are not going broke because of the unions. They are going broke because of the boom/bust policies of the Federal Reserve.[/quote]

Actually it’s due to both and while were at it, let’s
throw in illegal immigration.

Forced “austerity” for private sector workers has long been in place; now it’s the public employees turn. It’s already started in Wisconsin and spreading.

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount][quote=CA renter]
BTW, our states are not going broke because of the unions. They are going broke because of the boom/bust policies of the Federal Reserve.[/quote]

Actually it’s due to both and while were at it, let’s
throw in illegal immigration.

Forced “austerity” for private sector workers has long been in place; now it’s the public employees turn. It’s already started in Wisconsin and spreading.[/quote]

Yes, as I mentioned above, illegal immigration is a HUGE burden on the state’s budget.

I’m still trying to understand why someone would want to pull the rug out from under themselves in the name of envy. Private sector workers have fallen behind, relative to those in the public sector, because they allowed themselves to be brainwashed by the elite into believing that “unions are bad,” and “debt equals wealth.” They fell behind because of their own ignorance and apathy. They refused to fight for their own rights, and instead, want to tear everyone else down with them, rather than use the leverage afforded by the unions in the public sector to improve their own conditions.

BTW, have you noticed that as the sheeple in the private sector were being squeezed to death, corporate profits and executive compensation have been going up, up, up! They are making record profits, even in the face of “The Greatest Recession Since the Great Depression.” The money has been shifted up, and the sheeple are so stupid that they are willing to turn against the few who are fighting for workers’ rights, rather than focus on the cause of their dwindling wages and benefits. It seems some are hell-bent on racing to the bottom. Do you really want to compete with wage earners in the poorest countries on earth? Be prepared, because that’s what you’re advocating for…after all, THEY don’t get the wages/benefits that YOU have, so who’s going to stop the bleeding once the unions are gone? The unions are the only thing holding up the dwindling remains of the middle class in developed nations. Once they are gone, look out below.

Again…will someone PLEASE step up to the plate and give a well-reasoned argument that details how private sectors workers will benefit from the demise of public sector unions. Please use history, facts, and logic, rather than emotionally-based, hysterical rants.

Note: “I don’t get these wages/benefits, so neither should they,” (especially when one does not have a comparable job) is NOT a logical, fact-based, or well-reasoned argument.

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount][quote=CA renter]
BTW, our states are not going broke because of the unions. They are going broke because of the boom/bust policies of the Federal Reserve.[/quote]

Actually it’s due to both and while were at it, let’s
throw in illegal immigration.

Forced “austerity” for private sector workers has long been in place; now it’s the public employees turn. It’s already started in Wisconsin and spreading.[/quote]

Yes, as I mentioned above, illegal immigration is a HUGE burden on the state’s budget.

I’m still trying to understand why someone would want to pull the rug out from under themselves in the name of envy. Private sector workers have fallen behind, relative to those in the public sector, because they allowed themselves to be brainwashed by the elite into believing that “unions are bad,” and “debt equals wealth.” They fell behind because of their own ignorance and apathy. They refused to fight for their own rights, and instead, want to tear everyone else down with them, rather than use the leverage afforded by the unions in the public sector to improve their own conditions.

BTW, have you noticed that as the sheeple in the private sector were being squeezed to death, corporate profits and executive compensation have been going up, up, up! They are making record profits, even in the face of “The Greatest Recession Since the Great Depression.” The money has been shifted up, and the sheeple are so stupid that they are willing to turn against the few who are fighting for workers’ rights, rather than focus on the cause of their dwindling wages and benefits. It seems some are hell-bent on racing to the bottom. Do you really want to compete with wage earners in the poorest countries on earth? Be prepared, because that’s what you’re advocating for…after all, THEY don’t get the wages/benefits that YOU have, so who’s going to stop the bleeding once the unions are gone? The unions are the only thing holding up the dwindling remains of the middle class in developed nations. Once they are gone, look out below.

Again…will someone PLEASE step up to the plate and give a well-reasoned argument that details how private sectors workers will benefit from the demise of public sector unions. Please use history, facts, and logic, rather than emotionally-based, hysterical rants.

Note: “I don’t get these wages/benefits, so neither should they,” (especially when one does not have a comparable job) is NOT a logical, fact-based, or well-reasoned argument.

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount][quote=CA renter]
BTW, our states are not going broke because of the unions. They are going broke because of the boom/bust policies of the Federal Reserve.[/quote]

Actually it’s due to both and while were at it, let’s
throw in illegal immigration.

Forced “austerity” for private sector workers has long been in place; now it’s the public employees turn. It’s already started in Wisconsin and spreading.[/quote]

Yes, as I mentioned above, illegal immigration is a HUGE burden on the state’s budget.

I’m still trying to understand why someone would want to pull the rug out from under themselves in the name of envy. Private sector workers have fallen behind, relative to those in the public sector, because they allowed themselves to be brainwashed by the elite into believing that “unions are bad,” and “debt equals wealth.” They fell behind because of their own ignorance and apathy. They refused to fight for their own rights, and instead, want to tear everyone else down with them, rather than use the leverage afforded by the unions in the public sector to improve their own conditions.

BTW, have you noticed that as the sheeple in the private sector were being squeezed to death, corporate profits and executive compensation have been going up, up, up! They are making record profits, even in the face of “The Greatest Recession Since the Great Depression.” The money has been shifted up, and the sheeple are so stupid that they are willing to turn against the few who are fighting for workers’ rights, rather than focus on the cause of their dwindling wages and benefits. It seems some are hell-bent on racing to the bottom. Do you really want to compete with wage earners in the poorest countries on earth? Be prepared, because that’s what you’re advocating for…after all, THEY don’t get the wages/benefits that YOU have, so who’s going to stop the bleeding once the unions are gone? The unions are the only thing holding up the dwindling remains of the middle class in developed nations. Once they are gone, look out below.

Again…will someone PLEASE step up to the plate and give a well-reasoned argument that details how private sectors workers will benefit from the demise of public sector unions. Please use history, facts, and logic, rather than emotionally-based, hysterical rants.

Note: “I don’t get these wages/benefits, so neither should they,” (especially when one does not have a comparable job) is NOT a logical, fact-based, or well-reasoned argument.

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount][quote=CA renter]
BTW, our states are not going broke because of the unions. They are going broke because of the boom/bust policies of the Federal Reserve.[/quote]

Actually it’s due to both and while were at it, let’s
throw in illegal immigration.

Forced “austerity” for private sector workers has long been in place; now it’s the public employees turn. It’s already started in Wisconsin and spreading.[/quote]

Yes, as I mentioned above, illegal immigration is a HUGE burden on the state’s budget.

I’m still trying to understand why someone would want to pull the rug out from under themselves in the name of envy. Private sector workers have fallen behind, relative to those in the public sector, because they allowed themselves to be brainwashed by the elite into believing that “unions are bad,” and “debt equals wealth.” They fell behind because of their own ignorance and apathy. They refused to fight for their own rights, and instead, want to tear everyone else down with them, rather than use the leverage afforded by the unions in the public sector to improve their own conditions.

BTW, have you noticed that as the sheeple in the private sector were being squeezed to death, corporate profits and executive compensation have been going up, up, up! They are making record profits, even in the face of “The Greatest Recession Since the Great Depression.” The money has been shifted up, and the sheeple are so stupid that they are willing to turn against the few who are fighting for workers’ rights, rather than focus on the cause of their dwindling wages and benefits. It seems some are hell-bent on racing to the bottom. Do you really want to compete with wage earners in the poorest countries on earth? Be prepared, because that’s what you’re advocating for…after all, THEY don’t get the wages/benefits that YOU have, so who’s going to stop the bleeding once the unions are gone? The unions are the only thing holding up the dwindling remains of the middle class in developed nations. Once they are gone, look out below.

Again…will someone PLEASE step up to the plate and give a well-reasoned argument that details how private sectors workers will benefit from the demise of public sector unions. Please use history, facts, and logic, rather than emotionally-based, hysterical rants.

Note: “I don’t get these wages/benefits, so neither should they,” (especially when one does not have a comparable job) is NOT a logical, fact-based, or well-reasoned argument.

[Author]

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