The new smart financial move is walking away

[CA renter]

Brian,

Those of us who are married have experienced both marriage and single life. We’ve seen both sides of the fence, which you have not. With all due respect, I’ll take the advice/opinions of someone with actual experience and insight over someone who’s had no experience with the subject at hand.

It’s fine to be selfish and stay single. None of us are trying to change you or your opinions. Why do you and dave feel the need to constantly criticize *our* choices and opinions? Why do you feel that we (who actually have experience and knowledge about marriage) are fooling ourselves because we don’t agree with you?

[davelj]

Sorry, Brian, I’m going to jump into this one.

[quote=CA renter]
It’s fine to be selfish and stay single.
[/quote]

I’ve always thought this was a silly argument: “You want to stay single because you’re selfish.” It’s right up there with, “You don’t want children because you’re selfish.” YOU got married because YOU wanted to, right? You weren’t doing it as a favor to someone else. YOU wanted to get married and your husband felt the same way from his vantagepoint. That’s pure self interest. Thus, YOU (and your husband) are selfish. Likewise regarding kids. The world doesn’t need more kids, so YOU having kids is a reflection of YOUR OWN selfishness to have YOUR OWN children. My point is that everything we do is a result of our own selfishness. I certainly don’t think wanting to get married and having kids is more selfish than staying single, but please… don’t try to spin it the other way. It’s absurd if you think about it. I’m selfish; you’re selfish; your husband is selfish and so on…

[quote=CA renter]
None of us are trying to change you or your opinions. Why do you and dave feel the need to constantly criticize *our* choices and opinions? Why do you feel that we (who actually have experience and knowledge about marriage) are fooling ourselves because we don’t agree with you?[/quote]

More often than not, these issues are brought up by other folks and – speaking for myself – I chime in with my opinion, which happens to conflict with your own. I don’t see this as a problem. This is a discussion forum after all. I certainly don’t care if you defend the institution of marriage, no matter how misguided I think your position is. I believe most people fool themselves about marriage because (1) the stats are out there (regarding divorce, extramarital affairs, etc.), and (2) my own vast experience watching married couples.

I could reverse the question and ask YOU… “Why do you feel that just because your marriage is fine, that this applies to most other marriages when the evidence suggests otherwise?” That’s a rhetorical question.

[davelj]

Sorry, Brian, I’m going to jump into this one.

[quote=CA renter]
It’s fine to be selfish and stay single.
[/quote]

I’ve always thought this was a silly argument: “You want to stay single because you’re selfish.” It’s right up there with, “You don’t want children because you’re selfish.” YOU got married because YOU wanted to, right? You weren’t doing it as a favor to someone else. YOU wanted to get married and your husband felt the same way from his vantagepoint. That’s pure self interest. Thus, YOU (and your husband) are selfish. Likewise regarding kids. The world doesn’t need more kids, so YOU having kids is a reflection of YOUR OWN selfishness to have YOUR OWN children. My point is that everything we do is a result of our own selfishness. I certainly don’t think wanting to get married and having kids is more selfish than staying single, but please… don’t try to spin it the other way. It’s absurd if you think about it. I’m selfish; you’re selfish; your husband is selfish and so on…

[quote=CA renter]
None of us are trying to change you or your opinions. Why do you and dave feel the need to constantly criticize *our* choices and opinions? Why do you feel that we (who actually have experience and knowledge about marriage) are fooling ourselves because we don’t agree with you?[/quote]

More often than not, these issues are brought up by other folks and – speaking for myself – I chime in with my opinion, which happens to conflict with your own. I don’t see this as a problem. This is a discussion forum after all. I certainly don’t care if you defend the institution of marriage, no matter how misguided I think your position is. I believe most people fool themselves about marriage because (1) the stats are out there (regarding divorce, extramarital affairs, etc.), and (2) my own vast experience watching married couples.

I could reverse the question and ask YOU… “Why do you feel that just because your marriage is fine, that this applies to most other marriages when the evidence suggests otherwise?” That’s a rhetorical question.

[davelj]

Sorry, Brian, I’m going to jump into this one.

[quote=CA renter]
It’s fine to be selfish and stay single.
[/quote]

I’ve always thought this was a silly argument: “You want to stay single because you’re selfish.” It’s right up there with, “You don’t want children because you’re selfish.” YOU got married because YOU wanted to, right? You weren’t doing it as a favor to someone else. YOU wanted to get married and your husband felt the same way from his vantagepoint. That’s pure self interest. Thus, YOU (and your husband) are selfish. Likewise regarding kids. The world doesn’t need more kids, so YOU having kids is a reflection of YOUR OWN selfishness to have YOUR OWN children. My point is that everything we do is a result of our own selfishness. I certainly don’t think wanting to get married and having kids is more selfish than staying single, but please… don’t try to spin it the other way. It’s absurd if you think about it. I’m selfish; you’re selfish; your husband is selfish and so on…

[quote=CA renter]
None of us are trying to change you or your opinions. Why do you and dave feel the need to constantly criticize *our* choices and opinions? Why do you feel that we (who actually have experience and knowledge about marriage) are fooling ourselves because we don’t agree with you?[/quote]

More often than not, these issues are brought up by other folks and – speaking for myself – I chime in with my opinion, which happens to conflict with your own. I don’t see this as a problem. This is a discussion forum after all. I certainly don’t care if you defend the institution of marriage, no matter how misguided I think your position is. I believe most people fool themselves about marriage because (1) the stats are out there (regarding divorce, extramarital affairs, etc.), and (2) my own vast experience watching married couples.

I could reverse the question and ask YOU… “Why do you feel that just because your marriage is fine, that this applies to most other marriages when the evidence suggests otherwise?” That’s a rhetorical question.

[davelj]

Sorry, Brian, I’m going to jump into this one.

[quote=CA renter]
It’s fine to be selfish and stay single.
[/quote]

I’ve always thought this was a silly argument: “You want to stay single because you’re selfish.” It’s right up there with, “You don’t want children because you’re selfish.” YOU got married because YOU wanted to, right? You weren’t doing it as a favor to someone else. YOU wanted to get married and your husband felt the same way from his vantagepoint. That’s pure self interest. Thus, YOU (and your husband) are selfish. Likewise regarding kids. The world doesn’t need more kids, so YOU having kids is a reflection of YOUR OWN selfishness to have YOUR OWN children. My point is that everything we do is a result of our own selfishness. I certainly don’t think wanting to get married and having kids is more selfish than staying single, but please… don’t try to spin it the other way. It’s absurd if you think about it. I’m selfish; you’re selfish; your husband is selfish and so on…

[quote=CA renter]
None of us are trying to change you or your opinions. Why do you and dave feel the need to constantly criticize *our* choices and opinions? Why do you feel that we (who actually have experience and knowledge about marriage) are fooling ourselves because we don’t agree with you?[/quote]

More often than not, these issues are brought up by other folks and – speaking for myself – I chime in with my opinion, which happens to conflict with your own. I don’t see this as a problem. This is a discussion forum after all. I certainly don’t care if you defend the institution of marriage, no matter how misguided I think your position is. I believe most people fool themselves about marriage because (1) the stats are out there (regarding divorce, extramarital affairs, etc.), and (2) my own vast experience watching married couples.

I could reverse the question and ask YOU… “Why do you feel that just because your marriage is fine, that this applies to most other marriages when the evidence suggests otherwise?” That’s a rhetorical question.

[davelj]

Sorry, Brian, I’m going to jump into this one.

[quote=CA renter]
It’s fine to be selfish and stay single.
[/quote]

I’ve always thought this was a silly argument: “You want to stay single because you’re selfish.” It’s right up there with, “You don’t want children because you’re selfish.” YOU got married because YOU wanted to, right? You weren’t doing it as a favor to someone else. YOU wanted to get married and your husband felt the same way from his vantagepoint. That’s pure self interest. Thus, YOU (and your husband) are selfish. Likewise regarding kids. The world doesn’t need more kids, so YOU having kids is a reflection of YOUR OWN selfishness to have YOUR OWN children. My point is that everything we do is a result of our own selfishness. I certainly don’t think wanting to get married and having kids is more selfish than staying single, but please… don’t try to spin it the other way. It’s absurd if you think about it. I’m selfish; you’re selfish; your husband is selfish and so on…

[quote=CA renter]
None of us are trying to change you or your opinions. Why do you and dave feel the need to constantly criticize *our* choices and opinions? Why do you feel that we (who actually have experience and knowledge about marriage) are fooling ourselves because we don’t agree with you?[/quote]

More often than not, these issues are brought up by other folks and – speaking for myself – I chime in with my opinion, which happens to conflict with your own. I don’t see this as a problem. This is a discussion forum after all. I certainly don’t care if you defend the institution of marriage, no matter how misguided I think your position is. I believe most people fool themselves about marriage because (1) the stats are out there (regarding divorce, extramarital affairs, etc.), and (2) my own vast experience watching married couples.

I could reverse the question and ask YOU… “Why do you feel that just because your marriage is fine, that this applies to most other marriages when the evidence suggests otherwise?” That’s a rhetorical question.

[davelj]

[quote=AN]
That’s such a cop-out. If it’s so grave, then how come 50% of American do it and many do it several times? [/quote]

Because humans are not particularly rational when it comes to their emotions regarding other humans. Hope springs eternal.

“Marriage is a triumph of hope over experience.”
– Samuel Johnson

[davelj]

[quote=AN]
That’s such a cop-out. If it’s so grave, then how come 50% of American do it and many do it several times? [/quote]

Because humans are not particularly rational when it comes to their emotions regarding other humans. Hope springs eternal.

“Marriage is a triumph of hope over experience.”
– Samuel Johnson

[davelj]

[quote=AN]
That’s such a cop-out. If it’s so grave, then how come 50% of American do it and many do it several times? [/quote]

Because humans are not particularly rational when it comes to their emotions regarding other humans. Hope springs eternal.

“Marriage is a triumph of hope over experience.”
– Samuel Johnson

[davelj]

[quote=AN]
That’s such a cop-out. If it’s so grave, then how come 50% of American do it and many do it several times? [/quote]

Because humans are not particularly rational when it comes to their emotions regarding other humans. Hope springs eternal.

“Marriage is a triumph of hope over experience.”
– Samuel Johnson

[davelj]

[quote=AN]
That’s such a cop-out. If it’s so grave, then how come 50% of American do it and many do it several times? [/quote]

Because humans are not particularly rational when it comes to their emotions regarding other humans. Hope springs eternal.

“Marriage is a triumph of hope over experience.”
– Samuel Johnson

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]

Um, dave…

Has it ever occurred to you that happily married men don’t generally hang around with guys who have such an obvious disdain for marriage, monogamy, and women?[/quote]

No, it hasn’t. I know a (very) few happily married men and they appear to enjoy hanging around with guys who have an obvious disdain for marriage and monogamy. I have no disdain for women, which I’ve explained in prior posts ad nauseum. Quite the contrary, in fact. Just because a man doesn’t want to marry a woman doesn’t imply that he disdains them. That’s an absurd argument if you think about it.

[quote=CA renter]
Also, why do you think they are honest with you (when telling you they’d prefer to be divorced) when they are dishonest with their wives (assuming they tell their wives they like being married)?[/quote]

Because the price of their honesty with me is zero. The price of their honesty with their wives is potentially enormous. You cannot honestly be confused about this.

[quote=CA renter]
Happy people tend to hang around other happy people, and happily married couples tend to hang around with other happily married couples because we don’t like to hear or see other couples tearing each other apart and hurting one another. [/quote]

If that helps you sleep at night, then by all means…

[quote=CA renter]
Some of us (yes, even men!) really enjoy being married and being a part of something bigger and better than ourselves. Is it always easy? No way. Does it require personal sacrife? Yes! Is it worth it? For many of us, HELL YES!!! :)[/quote]

Different strokes for different folks.

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]

Um, dave…

Has it ever occurred to you that happily married men don’t generally hang around with guys who have such an obvious disdain for marriage, monogamy, and women?[/quote]

No, it hasn’t. I know a (very) few happily married men and they appear to enjoy hanging around with guys who have an obvious disdain for marriage and monogamy. I have no disdain for women, which I’ve explained in prior posts ad nauseum. Quite the contrary, in fact. Just because a man doesn’t want to marry a woman doesn’t imply that he disdains them. That’s an absurd argument if you think about it.

[quote=CA renter]
Also, why do you think they are honest with you (when telling you they’d prefer to be divorced) when they are dishonest with their wives (assuming they tell their wives they like being married)?[/quote]

Because the price of their honesty with me is zero. The price of their honesty with their wives is potentially enormous. You cannot honestly be confused about this.

[quote=CA renter]
Happy people tend to hang around other happy people, and happily married couples tend to hang around with other happily married couples because we don’t like to hear or see other couples tearing each other apart and hurting one another. [/quote]

If that helps you sleep at night, then by all means…

[quote=CA renter]
Some of us (yes, even men!) really enjoy being married and being a part of something bigger and better than ourselves. Is it always easy? No way. Does it require personal sacrife? Yes! Is it worth it? For many of us, HELL YES!!! :)[/quote]

Different strokes for different folks.

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]

Um, dave…

Has it ever occurred to you that happily married men don’t generally hang around with guys who have such an obvious disdain for marriage, monogamy, and women?[/quote]

No, it hasn’t. I know a (very) few happily married men and they appear to enjoy hanging around with guys who have an obvious disdain for marriage and monogamy. I have no disdain for women, which I’ve explained in prior posts ad nauseum. Quite the contrary, in fact. Just because a man doesn’t want to marry a woman doesn’t imply that he disdains them. That’s an absurd argument if you think about it.

[quote=CA renter]
Also, why do you think they are honest with you (when telling you they’d prefer to be divorced) when they are dishonest with their wives (assuming they tell their wives they like being married)?[/quote]

Because the price of their honesty with me is zero. The price of their honesty with their wives is potentially enormous. You cannot honestly be confused about this.

[quote=CA renter]
Happy people tend to hang around other happy people, and happily married couples tend to hang around with other happily married couples because we don’t like to hear or see other couples tearing each other apart and hurting one another. [/quote]

If that helps you sleep at night, then by all means…

[quote=CA renter]
Some of us (yes, even men!) really enjoy being married and being a part of something bigger and better than ourselves. Is it always easy? No way. Does it require personal sacrife? Yes! Is it worth it? For many of us, HELL YES!!! :)[/quote]

Different strokes for different folks.

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter]

Um, dave…

Has it ever occurred to you that happily married men don’t generally hang around with guys who have such an obvious disdain for marriage, monogamy, and women?[/quote]

No, it hasn’t. I know a (very) few happily married men and they appear to enjoy hanging around with guys who have an obvious disdain for marriage and monogamy. I have no disdain for women, which I’ve explained in prior posts ad nauseum. Quite the contrary, in fact. Just because a man doesn’t want to marry a woman doesn’t imply that he disdains them. That’s an absurd argument if you think about it.

[quote=CA renter]
Also, why do you think they are honest with you (when telling you they’d prefer to be divorced) when they are dishonest with their wives (assuming they tell their wives they like being married)?[/quote]

Because the price of their honesty with me is zero. The price of their honesty with their wives is potentially enormous. You cannot honestly be confused about this.

[quote=CA renter]
Happy people tend to hang around other happy people, and happily married couples tend to hang around with other happily married couples because we don’t like to hear or see other couples tearing each other apart and hurting one another. [/quote]

If that helps you sleep at night, then by all means…

[quote=CA renter]
Some of us (yes, even men!) really enjoy being married and being a part of something bigger and better than ourselves. Is it always easy? No way. Does it require personal sacrife? Yes! Is it worth it? For many of us, HELL YES!!! :)[/quote]

Different strokes for different folks.

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