The middle class is doomed…

[SD Realtor]

It is also not just at the federal level. How about the state level where a middle class guy cannot afford to send his kid to a college and some other kids will get some or all of the cost paid for. It is much more pervasive then getting an Obama phone.

[SK in CV]

[quote=SD Realtor]You don’t get it SK. Expansion doesn’t matter. The facts don’t matter. You tell me, have the number of people vying for the benefits increased? That is what matters. The volume of voters is what counts. That larger volume gets told that they should be given what others have earned.[/quote]

So you can’t come up with anything where benefits have actually been expanded?

There are more people on food stamps. There are more people on unemployment. Because there are more people unemployed and poor. But this has not been a policy change, it’s been created by a change in economic conditions. That is what matters. Fix the economy, these will all drop dramatically.

[SD Realtor]

Once more SK, it is not that Obama is any better or worse the Bush or any other republican. My argument is that he is the same. Wall Street loves him. Show me how the rich have suffered under him. How has Wall Street suffered or been harmed by him. How has big pharma been hurt by him. His expertise or shall I say the democratic party has learned to harness and play the class warfare card to the polls over the past 8 years and especially the past 4 years. The poor are just as bad off if not worse and the numbers will grow, faster then ever. The programs themselves don’t need to grow but simple stay the same because the simple debt service on the existing 16 trillion will be bore by the middle class. So even keeping the programs as they are will continue to doom us. The issue at hand is that one hand will wash the other and continue to do so. The middle class will bear the brunt. Whether by taxes or by programs that they are deemed to not qualified to participate in.

You show me the numbers saying that they have not been expanded. Show me that no new programs exist at any state or local levels either. Show me that there are no programs that exclude middle class families that participation. Show me that these programs have not expanded or contracted.

[SK in CV]

[quote=SD Realtor]
You show me the numbers saying that they have not been expanded. Show me that no new programs exist at any state or local levels either. Show me that there are no programs that exclude middle class families that participation. Show me that these programs have not expanded or contracted.[/quote]

Kind of hard for me to show you what doesn’t exist.

[SD Realtor]

Here you go.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_spending_chart

These programs do exist.

************

Again, go to my first post in this thread. That it is not the actual spending, it is the entitlement attitude that has been so successfully harnessed and hammered into the population. It is not about how much hard work it will take to get out of the rut you are in. It is more about someone else must bear the responsibility of lifting you out of that rut. It is their fault and they must pay for it.

[SK in CV]

[quote=SD Realtor]Here you go.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_spending_chart

These programs do exist.

************

Again, go to my first post in this thread. That it is not the actual spending, it is the entitlement attitude that has been so successfully harnessed and hammered into the population. It is not about how much hard work it will take to get out of the rut you are in. It is more about someone else must bear the responsibility of lifting you out of that rut. It is their fault and they must pay for it.[/quote]

No, that doesn’t prove any expansion of specific programs, only increases in costs.

You, and Romney and many other Republicans call it the “entitlement attitude”. The givers v. the takers. The vast majority of that 47% are retiree social security beneficiaries. Double down on that. Over and over again. See how it works out for you.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=SD Realtor]It is also not just at the federal level. How about the state level where a middle class guy cannot afford to send his kid to a college and some other kids will get some or all of the cost paid for. It is much more pervasive then getting an Obama phone.[/quote]

SDR, I must have missed something here. I’m not questioning this, but which categories of prospective students get need-based cash aid (for fees, NOT housing) or fee waivers from universities in CA who are NOT the spouses or children of disabled veterans?

Can you point me to any links with the exact qualifications to be eligible for this aid (I already know about the VA Chapter 30 program and CalVet).

Thanks.

Start with UC.

[livinincali]

[quote=SK in CV]
No, that doesn’t prove any expansion of specific programs, only increases in costs.
[/quote]

The ACA or better known as Obamacare is certainly an entitlement expansion.

[quote=SK in CV]
You, and Romney and many other Republicans call it the “entitlement attitude”. The givers v. the takers. The vast majority of that 47% are retiree social security beneficiaries. Double down on that. Over and over again. See how it works out for you.
[/quote]

That’s pretty much the problem. The taker side is essentially the majority now. Of course they’ll vote to keep those programs going whether we can afford them or not. If you go down that path you eventually end up in Greece’s shoes. Sure we can print but money in itself has no value. It’s the total goods and services you can take and redistribute that has value.

The reality is that this won’t end well. Whether it’s massive austerity like Greece or some kind of hyper inflationary event we’ll end up in a depression. When the pain gets bad we’ll likely have a majority that begs for a socialist government solution and everybody will get poorer. Those with the means will escape the country but loose a lot of assets in the process. Honestly real estate is a pretty shitty investment unless we get our fiscal house in order soon. Just wait until the government redistributes rental properties to the current tenants.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=livinincali][quote=SK in CV][quote=SD Realtor]
No these programs have not been cut or decreased. You are not correct. more important, the number of people needing the assistance has grown. [/quote]

Which programs have expanded benefits in the last 8 years?[/quote]

How about food stamps

How about looking at the Federal budget numbers for medicare, medicaid and social security over the past 8 years.[/quote]

livinincali, just because there are more people in the US using food stamps now than in 2006 doesn’t mean the program has been increased by a significant amount of money or increased at all.

A LOT of people in recent years no doubt found themselves “borderline qualified” for an EBT card. It could be worth $30, $60, $90 or $300 mo. “General Relief” recipients (single indigent and/or homeless adults and those just released from a state or Federal prison) currently qualify for an EBT card worth $69 mo (I think). It’s been $69 mo since at least 1994.

EBT cards are in no way intended to serve all of an individual or families’ food needs. That’s why we have food banks where recipients can work to earn their share and (overstock) commodity-pickup locations. Many, many EBT recipients ALSO qualify for WIC, in which recipients are issued vouchers which are only good to purchase a VERY limited list of food suitable for pregnant/nursing women and children under five years of age.

It’s very possible that the USDA just spread the wealth by giving states direction to lower the value of the highest-value EBT cards they issue.

[no_such_reality]

Just to unhijack the thread I started…

Back to real problem, in four years, we’ve increased the number of people needing assistance for food by roughly 75%. And in a concrete real sense, by 20,000,000 people.

That increase was driven by the decrease in middle income opportunities available which are steadily being replaced by low income opportunities for those without the current skills to create.

Traditional middle class roles that are predominately basic labor are steadily disappearing. Hence, $66K a year meter-readers are the utilities are rapidly becoming extinct. Those jobs will not come back. That same trend is shifting into ‘thinking’ service functions. Grocery checkers, customer service reps, financial analysts, stock brokers, basic info-tech, basic engineering, buh-bye. Medical isn’t safe either.

This is a problem for the haves and the have-nots. The 1% will not care as their money will last for them and theirs. The rest us facing heightened competition.

Most importantly, what people seem to missing, is it doesn’t only matter how good you are. How smart you are. Or how hard you work. It doesn’t matter if you’re the best, when there are 300 people that can do the job lined up for it.

If you can create and solve a unique problem, market it, produce it and sell it. You’re okay. You’re going to need to be able to employ yourself. And you’re going to need the soft-skills to align people to you.

Note: Rich T, can you do us a favor and reduce those graphics?

[livinincali]

[quote=bearishgurl]
livinincali, just because there are more people in the US using food stamps now than in 2006 doesn’t mean the program has been increased by a significant amount of money or increased at all.
[/quote]

Seriously, could you at least do a quick google search and a little research before making this claim. Food stamp spending increased to record 80.4 billion per year in 2012. In Obama’s first year of office 2009 it was 55.6 billion.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/federal-food-stamp-program-spent-record-804b-fy-2012

Nobody wants to see anybody go hungry. I’d like to see this program actual go back to providing nutritious food to people. Not a debit card to spend at Walmart when the clock sticks midnight of the 1st of the month.

[Coronita]

[quote=no_such_reality]Just to unhijack the thread I started…

Back to real problem, in four years, we’ve increased the number of people needing assistance for food by roughly 75%. And in a concrete real sense, by 20,000,000 people.

That increase was driven by the decrease in middle income opportunities available which are steadily being replaced by low income opportunities for those without the current skills to create.

Traditional middle class roles that are predominately basic labor are steadily disappearing. Hence, $66K a year meter-readers are the utilities are rapidly becoming extinct. Those jobs will not come back. That same trend is shifting into ‘thinking’ service functions. Grocery checkers, customer service reps, financial analysts, stock brokers, basic info-tech, basic engineering, buh-bye. Medical isn’t safe either.

This is a problem for the haves and the have-nots. The 1% will not care as their money will last for them and theirs. The rest us facing heightened competition.

Most importantly, what people seem to missing, is it doesn’t only matter how good you are. How smart you are. Or how hard you work. It doesn’t matter if you’re the best, when there are 300 people that can do the job lined up for it.

If you can create and solve a unique problem, market it, produce it and sell it. You’re okay. You’re going to need to be able to employ yourself. And you’re going to need the soft-skills to align people to you.

Note: Rich T, can you do us a favor and reduce those graphics?[/quote]

Bring it .

[livinincali]

[quote=no_such_reality]

Note: Rich T, can you do us a favor and reduce those graphics?[/quote]

I would have been able to do it myself but once it got quoted I can’t edit the original post anymore.
img tab just needs a width and heigth parameter.

something like width=”200″ height=”150″

[no_such_reality]

[quote=flu]
Bring it .[/quote]

I’m curious, have you seen Shipping Wars?

I see software development going to same way. Time, distance, location, all will basically be immaterial.

Just 200 Million people doing clever language tricks scrapping for a gig.

[Coronita]

[quote=no_such_reality][quote=flu]
Bring it .[/quote]

I’m curious, have you seen Shipping Wars?

I see software development going to same way. Time, distance, location, all will basically be immaterial.

Just 200 Million people doing clever language tricks scrapping for a gig.[/quote]

Well, gee, I hope i’m not doing software for the rest of my life. But for a few years longer I think I can do probably write, market, and sell apps, maybe not cool games like the fart app or the flashlight app for $0.99…Maybe corporate solutions…

Then again, maybe I can continue to work on internals…Maybe I can work on payment tech. Or self aware apps. Automotive apps, security apps, media apps…

Not like any of these things are gonna get solved in the near future…

[Author]

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