Talked to Thornberg

[PD]

Cyphire said: Perhaps you and PD forget that any money made above a certain point was made off the sweat of others.

The people who worked for me were fairly paid – but the way the system is set up I made the real money. I'm not ashamed of that but grateful.

I am quite aware that successful businesses require good workers. Here in America, most of them are paid a fair wage. We do not live in a feudal society. Please explain to me how objecting to Americans paying taxes twice on the same money is somehow forgetting hard workers.

I find your logic quite twisted. You admit that you took most of the profits, slough off responsibility because that was how it was “set up” and then accuse me and jg of somehow turning our back on the workers. Instead of happily forking over 50% of your money to the government, wouldn’t it have been better to directly share more of the wealth with the people whose sweat made you rich?

Don’t get me wrong here, I think you deserve your gains and am not saying that you were not a fair employer. I am just pointing out the disconnect in your own thinking.

Further, cyphire, I have never claimed that poor people receive too many social services (although I do think that there are many who take advantage of the system).

[lonestar2000]

I agree with Thornberg’s assessment, but there will always be local markets that defy what happens overall.

Depending on where you’re looking prices may not decline much, or you might see incredible auction sell-offs of entire tracks like what happened in Florida.

Keep your eyes open if you’re looking to buy as there will be deals to be had much sooner than you may think.

[lonestar2000]

I agree with Thornberg’s assessment, but there will always be local markets that defy what happens overall.

Depending on where you’re looking prices may not decline much, or you might see incredible auction sell-offs of entire tracks like what happened in Florida.

Keep your eyes open if you’re looking to buy as there will be deals to be had much sooner than you may think.

[ibjames]

Thanks for getting back on topic lonestar, so much chest thumping on this board it’s sickening at times.

[ibjames]

Thanks for getting back on topic lonestar, so much chest thumping on this board it’s sickening at times.

[cyphire]

Surveyor – there is inherent waste in government… absolutely agree with you. With higher taxes we could start retiring the debt and have programs to make the country not just a vehicle for the wealthier getting wealthier. I don’t agree that giving money to the government is wasteful, just that it is inefficient.

CEO’s and upper management fly private jets (citing security issues – yes, I’m sure that the people who sell seeds at ADM should worry that terrorists are waiting for them in the first class lounge)… They are thieves.

People around La Jolla need the extra Ferrari, Masarati, ect. Far better that they have some toys then kids in the inner city getting job training.

I know that you will all accuse me of being a bleeding heart liberal. I am a liberal and proud of it. I’m not a bleeding heart, I’m a business person. We paid lots of money for training for our employees, and every dollar we paid came back to us 3 fold. Set up job corps, set up training, give kids after school programs and teacher assistants, and start up jobs… and crack sales and robberies will go down. Thats not liberalism, it’s just good business. Increase taxes on the wealthy – we are becoming a third world country in the gap between rich and poor. Our middle class is shrinking and under pressure, and all ALL the money is flowing to the top.

I had a summer job for the guy who made the most money in the US last year (Jim Simons). I made 4$/hour (back in the 70’s), he made a billion and a half salary last year. I don’t begrudge it – quite the opposite! But take the hedge fund profits, the oil profits, etc. and apply reasonable but normal taxes to them – instead of letting them write the legislation in DC with their lobbyists.

[cyphire]

Surveyor – there is inherent waste in government… absolutely agree with you. With higher taxes we could start retiring the debt and have programs to make the country not just a vehicle for the wealthier getting wealthier. I don’t agree that giving money to the government is wasteful, just that it is inefficient.

CEO’s and upper management fly private jets (citing security issues – yes, I’m sure that the people who sell seeds at ADM should worry that terrorists are waiting for them in the first class lounge)… They are thieves.

People around La Jolla need the extra Ferrari, Masarati, ect. Far better that they have some toys then kids in the inner city getting job training.

I know that you will all accuse me of being a bleeding heart liberal. I am a liberal and proud of it. I’m not a bleeding heart, I’m a business person. We paid lots of money for training for our employees, and every dollar we paid came back to us 3 fold. Set up job corps, set up training, give kids after school programs and teacher assistants, and start up jobs… and crack sales and robberies will go down. Thats not liberalism, it’s just good business. Increase taxes on the wealthy – we are becoming a third world country in the gap between rich and poor. Our middle class is shrinking and under pressure, and all ALL the money is flowing to the top.

I had a summer job for the guy who made the most money in the US last year (Jim Simons). I made 4$/hour (back in the 70’s), he made a billion and a half salary last year. I don’t begrudge it – quite the opposite! But take the hedge fund profits, the oil profits, etc. and apply reasonable but normal taxes to them – instead of letting them write the legislation in DC with their lobbyists.

[cyphire]

Wow Drunkle – I wished that I had read your post instead of replying to Surveyor. I know that I didn’t even express myself half as well as you did. I also really admire Warren Buffett.

[cyphire]

Wow Drunkle – I wished that I had read your post instead of replying to Surveyor. I know that I didn’t even express myself half as well as you did. I also really admire Warren Buffett.

[cyphire]

Government spending is inefficient, but it’s the glue that keeps society from much worse things. Greedy people who can’t think past their bank account (you know who you are!), but more importantly graft reduction, social programs, health care for those who don’t have it, and public services for a population who are being screwed over by an apathetic and unenlightened population of morally challenged Republicans (many of them).

By the way… Greedy dirty guys like Bush are the reason that Katrina didn’t get relief. When you elect a not very bright party boy who values loyalty over competence, you get what you deserve. You don’t have to tell me jg you voted for him. I know that. But you can’t vote for a guy because he shares your morally indefensible belief system, then repudiate him and his evil minions.

The depression won’t only come because of the government. It comes from the Republican ripoff artists who have made any previous administration look like a bunch of careful and prudent investors. The only thing that Bush invested in was his faith based immoral stance and lining the pockets of the wealthy.

Sorry… Had to say it… You deserve the government you have.

[cyphire]

Government spending is inefficient, but it’s the glue that keeps society from much worse things. Greedy people who can’t think past their bank account (you know who you are!), but more importantly graft reduction, social programs, health care for those who don’t have it, and public services for a population who are being screwed over by an apathetic and unenlightened population of morally challenged Republicans (many of them).

By the way… Greedy dirty guys like Bush are the reason that Katrina didn’t get relief. When you elect a not very bright party boy who values loyalty over competence, you get what you deserve. You don’t have to tell me jg you voted for him. I know that. But you can’t vote for a guy because he shares your morally indefensible belief system, then repudiate him and his evil minions.

The depression won’t only come because of the government. It comes from the Republican ripoff artists who have made any previous administration look like a bunch of careful and prudent investors. The only thing that Bush invested in was his faith based immoral stance and lining the pockets of the wealthy.

Sorry… Had to say it… You deserve the government you have.

[cyphire]

Hey PD. American’s paying twice on the same money? You mean the tiny fraction of the wealthy. Sorry dude, those workers you were talking about need to leave 3-5 million dollars or more to their heirs. Thats not American’s, thats the 1%.

I am not advocating changing the capitalist system, just making it more fair. I love how everyone thinks the economy is doing great. The economy isn’t doing great, the wealthy are.

Am I guilty about making most of the money in selling my company? Maybe a little? Possibly. The funny thing is that we had some people in our company making 50% more than they should have. But they have been with us for more than a decade – so we did reward the people with profit sharing, way above average salaries, and a matched 401K. Thats why they didn’t leave. When I started my company I worked 15 hours a day for a year and a half. I took 8 days off during that period (I’m including weekends and holidays – I worked 7 days a week.). I took chances that none of my employees could conceive of (like leaving a good paying job), and when they went home to relax and spend time with the family – I went home to write more code (I had to run the company during the day). It paid off and I deserve it. But if I was told that the tax rate would be 15% higher – I would have worked just as hard.

PD – I agree about the social services. As I said, I’m not a bleeding heart. I would spend a LOT more money in watchdogs for government. For every 15 dollars in military spending I would spend 1 $ in oversight (right now it’s probably about .002 cents!) That would actually probably save a 1/3rd of our budget. I hate waste, but I hate saying that if it’s wasteful just forget the whole thing. Sounds too much like the scene in Oliver (the musical) where the poor boys are eating gruel, and the guys in charge of the work house are eating a huge sumptuous dinner!

Being a business person – I would love to apply good management techniques, good budgeting, and true forecasting to what is right now a shambles… But most of all as a person with a social conscience, and a person with a well developed moral code (away from the influence of religion and cults), I would love to try to fix the problem, not get rich off it and say ‘ oh well – thats all they deserve ‘. (I’m not directing that at you PD).

p.s. The world wouldn’t end if executives had to fly first class and actually had to perform to earn money. It also woudn’t end if instead of 30 Million an exec made 3 million (or a hedge fund manager made 10 million, not 150 million). It would only depress the real estate market in La Jolla and Vail.

[cyphire]

Hey PD. American’s paying twice on the same money? You mean the tiny fraction of the wealthy. Sorry dude, those workers you were talking about need to leave 3-5 million dollars or more to their heirs. Thats not American’s, thats the 1%.

I am not advocating changing the capitalist system, just making it more fair. I love how everyone thinks the economy is doing great. The economy isn’t doing great, the wealthy are.

Am I guilty about making most of the money in selling my company? Maybe a little? Possibly. The funny thing is that we had some people in our company making 50% more than they should have. But they have been with us for more than a decade – so we did reward the people with profit sharing, way above average salaries, and a matched 401K. Thats why they didn’t leave. When I started my company I worked 15 hours a day for a year and a half. I took 8 days off during that period (I’m including weekends and holidays – I worked 7 days a week.). I took chances that none of my employees could conceive of (like leaving a good paying job), and when they went home to relax and spend time with the family – I went home to write more code (I had to run the company during the day). It paid off and I deserve it. But if I was told that the tax rate would be 15% higher – I would have worked just as hard.

PD – I agree about the social services. As I said, I’m not a bleeding heart. I would spend a LOT more money in watchdogs for government. For every 15 dollars in military spending I would spend 1 $ in oversight (right now it’s probably about .002 cents!) That would actually probably save a 1/3rd of our budget. I hate waste, but I hate saying that if it’s wasteful just forget the whole thing. Sounds too much like the scene in Oliver (the musical) where the poor boys are eating gruel, and the guys in charge of the work house are eating a huge sumptuous dinner!

Being a business person – I would love to apply good management techniques, good budgeting, and true forecasting to what is right now a shambles… But most of all as a person with a social conscience, and a person with a well developed moral code (away from the influence of religion and cults), I would love to try to fix the problem, not get rich off it and say ‘ oh well – thats all they deserve ‘. (I’m not directing that at you PD).

p.s. The world wouldn’t end if executives had to fly first class and actually had to perform to earn money. It also woudn’t end if instead of 30 Million an exec made 3 million (or a hedge fund manager made 10 million, not 150 million). It would only depress the real estate market in La Jolla and Vail.

[surveyor]

labels

cyphire, I wouldn’t presume to call you a bleeding heart liberal. I’m not a name-caller. I’m not powayseller (ouch). 🙂

Certainly we can agree that there is waste in both government and within businesses. However, businesses have a built-in mechanism for minimizing waste – competition and profit. There is little to no pressure within the government to do the same.

There is always that justification that if we give more money to the government, it can do so many things – the job training, feeding the hungry, and all that. But at the end of it, who are you giving the money to? The politicians, the bureaucrats, the people who have no desire to actually solve the problems.

In fact, I like your model better. We could use more people like you. But with all the job training, the school programs, did you notice how well it works without the government? How things actually got done? How much more effective you were?

I find that things usually work a lot better when the government leaves us alone. I’m fairly sure you’ll agree with that.

[surveyor]

labels

cyphire, I wouldn’t presume to call you a bleeding heart liberal. I’m not a name-caller. I’m not powayseller (ouch). 🙂

Certainly we can agree that there is waste in both government and within businesses. However, businesses have a built-in mechanism for minimizing waste – competition and profit. There is little to no pressure within the government to do the same.

There is always that justification that if we give more money to the government, it can do so many things – the job training, feeding the hungry, and all that. But at the end of it, who are you giving the money to? The politicians, the bureaucrats, the people who have no desire to actually solve the problems.

In fact, I like your model better. We could use more people like you. But with all the job training, the school programs, did you notice how well it works without the government? How things actually got done? How much more effective you were?

I find that things usually work a lot better when the government leaves us alone. I’m fairly sure you’ll agree with that.

[Author]

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