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June 16, 2007 at 1:07 PM #59837June 16, 2007 at 1:07 PM #59870
what_a_disasta
Participant“The law is the law and it’s perfectly legitimate for individuals to shelter their money.”
Actually this is false. There are no legitimate tax shelters/havens when you are a U.S. citizen. Living in CA it’s your worldwide income @ 40 something percent if you make it into the top band. There are ways and means to reduce this, but if you were to be investigated you would probably end up behind bars.
June 16, 2007 at 10:16 PM #59907PerryChase
ParticipantBy shelter money, I didn’t mean avoid taxes completely. There are many ways to lower one’s tax burden. The richer one is, the more creative one can get. Estate planning is a full-time profession in of itself.
Taxes on income is different from taxes on wealth. You can grow wealth without being taxed until the gain is realized (see Blackstone). That’s why we need an estate tax, otherwise, wealth accumulated would never get taxed. Wealth doesn’t happen in a vacuum but is created by the society in which we live in. It would be of great benefit to those who can grow wealth, pass it on to heir without paying taxes (contributing to society). Billionaires like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett support the estate tax because they believe in giving back to society.
It not hard for people with great wealth to continue to grow that wealth while earning very little income and thus paying little income taxes.
It’s always funny to me that those who don’t have great wealth support abolishing the estate tax. They are seduced by the simple rhetoric of the Republicans. Actually, if those voters are stupid enough to vote against their own interest, then who am I to judge?
June 16, 2007 at 10:16 PM #59940ParticipantBy shelter money, I didn’t mean avoid taxes completely. There are many ways to lower one’s tax burden. The richer one is, the more creative one can get. Estate planning is a full-time profession in of itself.
Taxes on income is different from taxes on wealth. You can grow wealth without being taxed until the gain is realized (see Blackstone). That’s why we need an estate tax, otherwise, wealth accumulated would never get taxed. Wealth doesn’t happen in a vacuum but is created by the society in which we live in. It would be of great benefit to those who can grow wealth, pass it on to heir without paying taxes (contributing to society). Billionaires like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett support the estate tax because they believe in giving back to society.
It not hard for people with great wealth to continue to grow that wealth while earning very little income and thus paying little income taxes.
It’s always funny to me that those who don’t have great wealth support abolishing the estate tax. They are seduced by the simple rhetoric of the Republicans. Actually, if those voters are stupid enough to vote against their own interest, then who am I to judge?
June 17, 2007 at 8:02 AM #59928PD
ParticipantPerry, nice attempt to make me sound like a zombie. It doesn’t wash. It is always funny to me that the people who support taking from rich are usually the poor.
June 17, 2007 at 8:02 AM #59959ParticipantPerry, nice attempt to make me sound like a zombie. It doesn’t wash. It is always funny to me that the people who support taking from rich are usually the poor.
June 17, 2007 at 10:15 AM #59960Chris Scoreboard Johnston
ParticipantObviously taking from the rich to give to the poor was a scheme of someone who was poor. How about giving to the needy, who may or may not be poor?
The originator of the estate tax should be taken out and shot, and I would be more than willing to pull the trigger on one of my guns to do it. Set up the pay per view and my pardon, and it is on!
June 17, 2007 at 10:15 AM #59992ParticipantObviously taking from the rich to give to the poor was a scheme of someone who was poor. How about giving to the needy, who may or may not be poor?
The originator of the estate tax should be taken out and shot, and I would be more than willing to pull the trigger on one of my guns to do it. Set up the pay per view and my pardon, and it is on!
June 17, 2007 at 5:26 PM #59997cyphire
ParticipantHaving just set up a trust (to avoid some of the estate taxes), I would still agree with PerryChase and the other poster. Look – I understand both sides of these views, but think that our country is set up pretty unfairly. Estate taxes above a certain amount seem to me to be a reasonable precaution against keeping large estates in family hands who didn’t earn them.
Current law:
* The federal estate tax exemption amount is $2,000,000 in 2006 increasing to $3,500,000 in 2009. The highest federal estate tax rate is 46% in 2006 and decreases to 45% in 2007-2009. The federal estate tax will be repealed on 1/1/10 until 12/31/10. Beginning 2011, the federal estate tax will be reinstated with a federal estate tax exemption amount of $1,000,000 and a maximum estate tax rate of 55%. Currently, bills are pending in Congress that, if passed, would permanently repeal or otherwise lessen the impact of the federal estate tax.
First of all the people who watch American Idol (including myself even though I despise all reality shows – hey it’s a singing competition!) all work. They work pretty hard, get a couple of weeks vacation if they are lucky, and pay taxes. Have you guys forgot that most of the wealth in this country is in the hands of a small percentage?
The people at the top have the power, are the employers and have been structuring the tax system and the benefits of the tax system to their own advantage (including mine) to the detriment of the rest of society. Literally all the wealth created in the last 30 years have gone to the upper brackets – the rest of the brackets have stayed the same or gone down.
Until last week I owned a company. As hard as I worked, I also made the rules. And all the people in the company had to punch a clock and deal with lopsided earning power. Lets face it. Not only were jobs not created or earning power increased for the vast number of Americans during Bush’s tax cut system, but all it did was enrich the wealthy and the rich. We paid our employees at or above (in some cases way above) current price points – but still we made even more money.
I’m amazed at people who have disdain for “the great unwashed”. It’s these people who have the crappy jobs, work their asses off doing menial labor. Have to put up with personalities like some of the voices recently expressed in this blog, et. cetera.
I want my children to stand on their own two feet. That being said, they will start with a HUGE advantage compared to the rest of society. JG your kids go to private school. despite any taxes you might pay they will have lots of material possessions from you. The average kid in this country goes to public school, private school isn’t an option for them economically. The bottom percentage of our society goes to crap public schools, deals with drugs and metal detectors, gangs, violence. My kids also go to private school… Will probably go to an elite university and will have a trust fund in 7 figures. Do you really think it’s unfair to lose half of the estate above some number of million dollars to provide for the rest of society? I don’t. I’m glad to pay it.
The problem we have in this country is too low taxes. We also have the problem that most of the guys at the top are stealing from everyone else. A study was just done that showed that the average of all mergers in the last 20 years have resulted in less then the seperate companies to the stockholders… Some percentage of the people who are employed by the former companies lost their jobs.. The CEO’s and the executives got insanely rich. Without actually having any better performance. What a country!
Keep voting your pocketbook… You have to live with your conscious.
June 17, 2007 at 5:26 PM #60030ParticipantHaving just set up a trust (to avoid some of the estate taxes), I would still agree with PerryChase and the other poster. Look – I understand both sides of these views, but think that our country is set up pretty unfairly. Estate taxes above a certain amount seem to me to be a reasonable precaution against keeping large estates in family hands who didn’t earn them.
Current law:
* The federal estate tax exemption amount is $2,000,000 in 2006 increasing to $3,500,000 in 2009. The highest federal estate tax rate is 46% in 2006 and decreases to 45% in 2007-2009. The federal estate tax will be repealed on 1/1/10 until 12/31/10. Beginning 2011, the federal estate tax will be reinstated with a federal estate tax exemption amount of $1,000,000 and a maximum estate tax rate of 55%. Currently, bills are pending in Congress that, if passed, would permanently repeal or otherwise lessen the impact of the federal estate tax.
First of all the people who watch American Idol (including myself even though I despise all reality shows – hey it’s a singing competition!) all work. They work pretty hard, get a couple of weeks vacation if they are lucky, and pay taxes. Have you guys forgot that most of the wealth in this country is in the hands of a small percentage?
The people at the top have the power, are the employers and have been structuring the tax system and the benefits of the tax system to their own advantage (including mine) to the detriment of the rest of society. Literally all the wealth created in the last 30 years have gone to the upper brackets – the rest of the brackets have stayed the same or gone down.
Until last week I owned a company. As hard as I worked, I also made the rules. And all the people in the company had to punch a clock and deal with lopsided earning power. Lets face it. Not only were jobs not created or earning power increased for the vast number of Americans during Bush’s tax cut system, but all it did was enrich the wealthy and the rich. We paid our employees at or above (in some cases way above) current price points – but still we made even more money.
I’m amazed at people who have disdain for “the great unwashed”. It’s these people who have the crappy jobs, work their asses off doing menial labor. Have to put up with personalities like some of the voices recently expressed in this blog, et. cetera.
I want my children to stand on their own two feet. That being said, they will start with a HUGE advantage compared to the rest of society. JG your kids go to private school. despite any taxes you might pay they will have lots of material possessions from you. The average kid in this country goes to public school, private school isn’t an option for them economically. The bottom percentage of our society goes to crap public schools, deals with drugs and metal detectors, gangs, violence. My kids also go to private school… Will probably go to an elite university and will have a trust fund in 7 figures. Do you really think it’s unfair to lose half of the estate above some number of million dollars to provide for the rest of society? I don’t. I’m glad to pay it.
The problem we have in this country is too low taxes. We also have the problem that most of the guys at the top are stealing from everyone else. A study was just done that showed that the average of all mergers in the last 20 years have resulted in less then the seperate companies to the stockholders… Some percentage of the people who are employed by the former companies lost their jobs.. The CEO’s and the executives got insanely rich. Without actually having any better performance. What a country!
Keep voting your pocketbook… You have to live with your conscious.
June 17, 2007 at 9:20 PM #60015Anonymous
GuestC’mon, cyphire and Perry, effective marginal tax rates on income for high earners are greater than 40% between Federal, state, and Medicare taxes.
How much is enough for you guys?
Let’s cut spending on stupid stuff, like welfare for illegal aliens, farm subsidies, Medicare and Social Security for folks with wealth or income, etc.
Keep the savings in the hands of individuals. Keep the money out of the hands of government. We’ll all be richer that way.
Why? Because smart, energetic guys like Bill Gates create good, high-paying jobs in growing areas. Dumb government bureaucrats create stupid, non-value added, dead-end jobs such as family counseling in Barrio Logan.
Get over your envy of the rich. Lots of the rich appear to have dolts as offspring: John Kennedy, Jr., flying on a stormy night when he was not instrument qualified, killed himself, his wife, and his promising sister-in-law, resulting in the Kennedys paying out millions (I remember $25MM, though I cannot find a source, now) to the wife/sister-in-law family in settlement for the wrongful death suit:
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/LAW/07/12/kennedy.settlement/Lots of the rich have such dolts for kids that the kids virtually guarantee that the funds will not make it to the third generation.
If who your parents are was truly ‘destiny,’ folks named Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Hamilton, and Adams would be running the country today. Look around; they are not.
Heck, Billy Ford just lost his job at his family company.
June 17, 2007 at 9:20 PM #60048GuestC’mon, cyphire and Perry, effective marginal tax rates on income for high earners are greater than 40% between Federal, state, and Medicare taxes.
How much is enough for you guys?
Let’s cut spending on stupid stuff, like welfare for illegal aliens, farm subsidies, Medicare and Social Security for folks with wealth or income, etc.
Keep the savings in the hands of individuals. Keep the money out of the hands of government. We’ll all be richer that way.
Why? Because smart, energetic guys like Bill Gates create good, high-paying jobs in growing areas. Dumb government bureaucrats create stupid, non-value added, dead-end jobs such as family counseling in Barrio Logan.
Get over your envy of the rich. Lots of the rich appear to have dolts as offspring: John Kennedy, Jr., flying on a stormy night when he was not instrument qualified, killed himself, his wife, and his promising sister-in-law, resulting in the Kennedys paying out millions (I remember $25MM, though I cannot find a source, now) to the wife/sister-in-law family in settlement for the wrongful death suit:
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/LAW/07/12/kennedy.settlement/Lots of the rich have such dolts for kids that the kids virtually guarantee that the funds will not make it to the third generation.
If who your parents are was truly ‘destiny,’ folks named Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Hamilton, and Adams would be running the country today. Look around; they are not.
Heck, Billy Ford just lost his job at his family company.
June 18, 2007 at 4:08 AM #60039lostkitty
Participant"Dumb government bureaucrats create stupid, non-value added, dead-end jobs such as family counseling in Barrio Logan."
Care to elaborate on this one jg?
Explain for all of us retarded public school children why this is a 'non-value added', 'dead-end job'? What about it is worthless?
June 18, 2007 at 4:08 AM #60071Participant"Dumb government bureaucrats create stupid, non-value added, dead-end jobs such as family counseling in Barrio Logan."
Care to elaborate on this one jg?
Explain for all of us retarded public school children why this is a 'non-value added', 'dead-end job'? What about it is worthless?
June 18, 2007 at 7:44 AM #60049ParticipantEstate taxes above a certain amount seem to me to be a reasonable precaution against keeping large estates in family hands who didn't earn them.
This is asinine. I should have the right to pass on to my children anything that I acquire during my life. How dare you or anybody else advocate taking away my right to do this? Are you going to be the inheritance police? Are you only allowed to have what you have earned? Do you really think it is a threat to society for people to inherit lareg sums of money? In this case, you must be opposed to the lottery. Winners really haven't "earned" anything.
If you want to give your money or possessions away instead of passing them on to you children, fine. I think that is stupid but it is your right. However, don't you dare enact laws that prevent me from disposing of my lawfully earned possessions as I see fit.
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