Surreal State of the State Speech

[zk]

[quote=Djshakes]
I wasn’t around when Jerry was in office before. I hear from some that he is a loon, some say he is in the union’s pockets, some liked him. I have never heard anyone give him rave reviews….which makes me wonder why this state would elect him a second term.

[/quote]

I wasn’t in California for his first term, either. What I know about him is his record, what I read about him, and what I hear when he talks. When he served as Governor in the ’70’s he was somewhat fiscally conservative. I like that. He used to show up on KNX 1070 regularly, and I liked what he had to say and how he said it. He doesn’t talk like a politician and he doesn’t appear to think like one. He had a lot of common sense ideas on a lot of things (I must admit I don’t remember what they were. I just remember thinking that they sounded like good, sensible ideas.) Not sure if that qualifies as a rave review, but I really like him.

As far as giving him a second chance, he said he’d take the real actions necessary to fix the budget. I’m probably giving the voters too much credit to think that’s why they elected him. But that’s why I voted for him. Some say that Whitman would’ve been better for the budget. But, really, when’s the last time you saw any politician take the kind of steps Brown is taking right now? And would we really expect her to take them? He’s making hard, unpopular, real choices that are necessary to fix our budget. You can argue that higher taxes will cause more harm than good to an economy and therefore a budget. But right now there just isn’t enough that you can realistically cut and make it work without raising taxes. Unless you count the unrealistic “greater efficiency” goals that many put forth. I’m all for efficiency in government, but you have to be realistic when saying that you can reduce spending by drastic amounts just by improving efficiency.

[quote=Djshakes]
I’m all for giving someone a second chance. I am apprehensive as if you can’t get it done the first time than most likely the same approach won’t work a second. However, maybe he will take a different approach. We will have to see.

[/quote]

I wouldn’t say he didn’t get it done the first time (fiscally). And I think he’s already taking a different approach from last time, because the situation is different. We’ll see if it works or not.

[quote=Djshakes]
I don’t think the thread is about his performance as he has recently been elected. I think it is about the years of politics that got us into this mess from both sides of the isle and if it is too far gone to fix. Have we passed the tipping point? I think half would argue we have.[/quote]

I agree with that. Have we passed the tipping point? I don’t know. But I think that if we haven’t, then drastic measures are necessary to avoid reaching it. And I think Brown is just the guy to take those measures.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Djshakes]
I wasn’t around when Jerry was in office before. I hear from some that he is a loon, some say he is in the union’s pockets, some liked him. I have never heard anyone give him rave reviews….which makes me wonder why this state would elect him a second term. I’m all for giving someone a second chance. I am apprehensive as if you can’t get it done the first time than most likely the same approach won’t work a second. However, maybe he will take a different approach. We will have to see.

I don’t think the thread is about his performance as he has recently been elected. I think it is about the years of politics that got us into this mess from both sides of the isle and if it is too far gone to fix. Have we passed the tipping point? I think half would argue we have.[/quote]

We may have hit a tipping point, although I don’t think we have. I remember all the “Governor Moonbeam” remarks from back in the 1970s and the snickering about him dating Linda Ronstadt, but I also remember him eschewing the governor’s mansion for a condo in Sacto and driving himself to work in a Chrysler, too.

While I am conservative, I couldn’t bring myself to vote for Meg Whitman and largely because I felt she would have botched the job horribly. I grew up in Silicon Valley and a lot of my friends still work there and not one of them has anything good to say about Meg Whitman (or Carly Fiorina, for that matter).

I think Jerry is a far different, far older and far more experienced dude than when he held office before. I was hugely impressed with what he did with Oakland, and I’ve always admired his intellect (probably because he’s a fellow Jesuit).

I would agree with zk, in that Jerry is spreading the pain equally between the GOP and the Dems, and I think he’s reached a point in his political career when he really doesn’t give a shit who he offends; he’s here to try and fix the problem. I very much liked the way he laid things out simply on the campaign trail, and I was disgusted by Whitman’s attempt to buy the election.

Jerry represents California in a way that Whitman never could, but to truly understand what I mean, you have to go back to the 1960s and 1970s, when most of this stupid shit started. And most of it had far less to do with the various governors and far more to do with California’s uniquely F’d up legislature.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Djshakes]
I wasn’t around when Jerry was in office before. I hear from some that he is a loon, some say he is in the union’s pockets, some liked him. I have never heard anyone give him rave reviews….which makes me wonder why this state would elect him a second term. I’m all for giving someone a second chance. I am apprehensive as if you can’t get it done the first time than most likely the same approach won’t work a second. However, maybe he will take a different approach. We will have to see.

I don’t think the thread is about his performance as he has recently been elected. I think it is about the years of politics that got us into this mess from both sides of the isle and if it is too far gone to fix. Have we passed the tipping point? I think half would argue we have.[/quote]

We may have hit a tipping point, although I don’t think we have. I remember all the “Governor Moonbeam” remarks from back in the 1970s and the snickering about him dating Linda Ronstadt, but I also remember him eschewing the governor’s mansion for a condo in Sacto and driving himself to work in a Chrysler, too.

While I am conservative, I couldn’t bring myself to vote for Meg Whitman and largely because I felt she would have botched the job horribly. I grew up in Silicon Valley and a lot of my friends still work there and not one of them has anything good to say about Meg Whitman (or Carly Fiorina, for that matter).

I think Jerry is a far different, far older and far more experienced dude than when he held office before. I was hugely impressed with what he did with Oakland, and I’ve always admired his intellect (probably because he’s a fellow Jesuit).

I would agree with zk, in that Jerry is spreading the pain equally between the GOP and the Dems, and I think he’s reached a point in his political career when he really doesn’t give a shit who he offends; he’s here to try and fix the problem. I very much liked the way he laid things out simply on the campaign trail, and I was disgusted by Whitman’s attempt to buy the election.

Jerry represents California in a way that Whitman never could, but to truly understand what I mean, you have to go back to the 1960s and 1970s, when most of this stupid shit started. And most of it had far less to do with the various governors and far more to do with California’s uniquely F’d up legislature.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Djshakes]
I wasn’t around when Jerry was in office before. I hear from some that he is a loon, some say he is in the union’s pockets, some liked him. I have never heard anyone give him rave reviews….which makes me wonder why this state would elect him a second term. I’m all for giving someone a second chance. I am apprehensive as if you can’t get it done the first time than most likely the same approach won’t work a second. However, maybe he will take a different approach. We will have to see.

I don’t think the thread is about his performance as he has recently been elected. I think it is about the years of politics that got us into this mess from both sides of the isle and if it is too far gone to fix. Have we passed the tipping point? I think half would argue we have.[/quote]

We may have hit a tipping point, although I don’t think we have. I remember all the “Governor Moonbeam” remarks from back in the 1970s and the snickering about him dating Linda Ronstadt, but I also remember him eschewing the governor’s mansion for a condo in Sacto and driving himself to work in a Chrysler, too.

While I am conservative, I couldn’t bring myself to vote for Meg Whitman and largely because I felt she would have botched the job horribly. I grew up in Silicon Valley and a lot of my friends still work there and not one of them has anything good to say about Meg Whitman (or Carly Fiorina, for that matter).

I think Jerry is a far different, far older and far more experienced dude than when he held office before. I was hugely impressed with what he did with Oakland, and I’ve always admired his intellect (probably because he’s a fellow Jesuit).

I would agree with zk, in that Jerry is spreading the pain equally between the GOP and the Dems, and I think he’s reached a point in his political career when he really doesn’t give a shit who he offends; he’s here to try and fix the problem. I very much liked the way he laid things out simply on the campaign trail, and I was disgusted by Whitman’s attempt to buy the election.

Jerry represents California in a way that Whitman never could, but to truly understand what I mean, you have to go back to the 1960s and 1970s, when most of this stupid shit started. And most of it had far less to do with the various governors and far more to do with California’s uniquely F’d up legislature.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Djshakes]
I wasn’t around when Jerry was in office before. I hear from some that he is a loon, some say he is in the union’s pockets, some liked him. I have never heard anyone give him rave reviews….which makes me wonder why this state would elect him a second term. I’m all for giving someone a second chance. I am apprehensive as if you can’t get it done the first time than most likely the same approach won’t work a second. However, maybe he will take a different approach. We will have to see.

I don’t think the thread is about his performance as he has recently been elected. I think it is about the years of politics that got us into this mess from both sides of the isle and if it is too far gone to fix. Have we passed the tipping point? I think half would argue we have.[/quote]

We may have hit a tipping point, although I don’t think we have. I remember all the “Governor Moonbeam” remarks from back in the 1970s and the snickering about him dating Linda Ronstadt, but I also remember him eschewing the governor’s mansion for a condo in Sacto and driving himself to work in a Chrysler, too.

While I am conservative, I couldn’t bring myself to vote for Meg Whitman and largely because I felt she would have botched the job horribly. I grew up in Silicon Valley and a lot of my friends still work there and not one of them has anything good to say about Meg Whitman (or Carly Fiorina, for that matter).

I think Jerry is a far different, far older and far more experienced dude than when he held office before. I was hugely impressed with what he did with Oakland, and I’ve always admired his intellect (probably because he’s a fellow Jesuit).

I would agree with zk, in that Jerry is spreading the pain equally between the GOP and the Dems, and I think he’s reached a point in his political career when he really doesn’t give a shit who he offends; he’s here to try and fix the problem. I very much liked the way he laid things out simply on the campaign trail, and I was disgusted by Whitman’s attempt to buy the election.

Jerry represents California in a way that Whitman never could, but to truly understand what I mean, you have to go back to the 1960s and 1970s, when most of this stupid shit started. And most of it had far less to do with the various governors and far more to do with California’s uniquely F’d up legislature.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Djshakes]
I wasn’t around when Jerry was in office before. I hear from some that he is a loon, some say he is in the union’s pockets, some liked him. I have never heard anyone give him rave reviews….which makes me wonder why this state would elect him a second term. I’m all for giving someone a second chance. I am apprehensive as if you can’t get it done the first time than most likely the same approach won’t work a second. However, maybe he will take a different approach. We will have to see.

I don’t think the thread is about his performance as he has recently been elected. I think it is about the years of politics that got us into this mess from both sides of the isle and if it is too far gone to fix. Have we passed the tipping point? I think half would argue we have.[/quote]

We may have hit a tipping point, although I don’t think we have. I remember all the “Governor Moonbeam” remarks from back in the 1970s and the snickering about him dating Linda Ronstadt, but I also remember him eschewing the governor’s mansion for a condo in Sacto and driving himself to work in a Chrysler, too.

While I am conservative, I couldn’t bring myself to vote for Meg Whitman and largely because I felt she would have botched the job horribly. I grew up in Silicon Valley and a lot of my friends still work there and not one of them has anything good to say about Meg Whitman (or Carly Fiorina, for that matter).

I think Jerry is a far different, far older and far more experienced dude than when he held office before. I was hugely impressed with what he did with Oakland, and I’ve always admired his intellect (probably because he’s a fellow Jesuit).

I would agree with zk, in that Jerry is spreading the pain equally between the GOP and the Dems, and I think he’s reached a point in his political career when he really doesn’t give a shit who he offends; he’s here to try and fix the problem. I very much liked the way he laid things out simply on the campaign trail, and I was disgusted by Whitman’s attempt to buy the election.

Jerry represents California in a way that Whitman never could, but to truly understand what I mean, you have to go back to the 1960s and 1970s, when most of this stupid shit started. And most of it had far less to do with the various governors and far more to do with California’s uniquely F’d up legislature.

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=EmilyHicks]Tackling a failed pension system should be the first thing to do.[/quote]

The pension system is a time bomb – I’ve brought this up many times. However the problems with the pension system do not impact the current budget. (It’s just our children that will bear this massive burden.)

Governor Brown has to solve the immediate problem first.

I do agree that public safety compensation is out of control and fraud is rampant. I have no doubt that we could receive the same level of service at a fraction of the cost. We could pay firefighters less than six digits and still be just as safe.

[quote]And NO, teachers are not underpaid. They make an average of 86k with cushy pension and 3.5 months off every year.[/quote]

I’ve never heard of a teacher making six digits, so I find it very hard to believe that they make an average of $86K. You’ll need to cite a source on that one.

Although I’m a big critic of state worker compensation, I hesitate to lump teachers in with the rest.

I know many smart people who would never choose to be a teacher because of the poor compensation. I’ve never heard of anyone turning down a firefighter job because of the pay.

We need to be selective about where we cut:

Cut education and we deny our children future opportunities.

Cut firefighter and other state worker’s pensions (e.g. CalTrans), and we save our children from massive tax burdens when they are adults.

[quote]Yes, illegal immigrants is a big problem. In Santa Ana, 80% of the students are children of illegals.[/quote]

That’s a pretty extreme statistic – Got a source?

The illegal immigration “problem” is massively exaggerated. And even if it were a problem, how do we stop spending on them? What specifically do we cut?

We don’t need scapegoats, we need solutions.[/quote]

Aren’t you trying to make the public workers the scapegoats? At least public safety personnel perform services that greatly benefit our society; they prevent crime, rather than cause it; and they don’t drive down the wages of other workers, either. The illegal immigrants are not supposed to be here, period.

The problem with trying to cite statistics about the costs related to illegal immigration is because many public agencies (like schools) are often **forbidden** to ask about citizenship status. Having worked in a large school district that was largely impacted by illegal immigrants, I would definitely agree that they (and children of illegal immigrants) easily comprise about 30-50% of the student population in many school districts, and it could easily be higher in districts located in poorer areas.

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=EmilyHicks]Tackling a failed pension system should be the first thing to do.[/quote]

The pension system is a time bomb – I’ve brought this up many times. However the problems with the pension system do not impact the current budget. (It’s just our children that will bear this massive burden.)

Governor Brown has to solve the immediate problem first.

I do agree that public safety compensation is out of control and fraud is rampant. I have no doubt that we could receive the same level of service at a fraction of the cost. We could pay firefighters less than six digits and still be just as safe.

[quote]And NO, teachers are not underpaid. They make an average of 86k with cushy pension and 3.5 months off every year.[/quote]

I’ve never heard of a teacher making six digits, so I find it very hard to believe that they make an average of $86K. You’ll need to cite a source on that one.

Although I’m a big critic of state worker compensation, I hesitate to lump teachers in with the rest.

I know many smart people who would never choose to be a teacher because of the poor compensation. I’ve never heard of anyone turning down a firefighter job because of the pay.

We need to be selective about where we cut:

Cut education and we deny our children future opportunities.

Cut firefighter and other state worker’s pensions (e.g. CalTrans), and we save our children from massive tax burdens when they are adults.

[quote]Yes, illegal immigrants is a big problem. In Santa Ana, 80% of the students are children of illegals.[/quote]

That’s a pretty extreme statistic – Got a source?

The illegal immigration “problem” is massively exaggerated. And even if it were a problem, how do we stop spending on them? What specifically do we cut?

We don’t need scapegoats, we need solutions.[/quote]

Aren’t you trying to make the public workers the scapegoats? At least public safety personnel perform services that greatly benefit our society; they prevent crime, rather than cause it; and they don’t drive down the wages of other workers, either. The illegal immigrants are not supposed to be here, period.

The problem with trying to cite statistics about the costs related to illegal immigration is because many public agencies (like schools) are often **forbidden** to ask about citizenship status. Having worked in a large school district that was largely impacted by illegal immigrants, I would definitely agree that they (and children of illegal immigrants) easily comprise about 30-50% of the student population in many school districts, and it could easily be higher in districts located in poorer areas.

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=EmilyHicks]Tackling a failed pension system should be the first thing to do.[/quote]

The pension system is a time bomb – I’ve brought this up many times. However the problems with the pension system do not impact the current budget. (It’s just our children that will bear this massive burden.)

Governor Brown has to solve the immediate problem first.

I do agree that public safety compensation is out of control and fraud is rampant. I have no doubt that we could receive the same level of service at a fraction of the cost. We could pay firefighters less than six digits and still be just as safe.

[quote]And NO, teachers are not underpaid. They make an average of 86k with cushy pension and 3.5 months off every year.[/quote]

I’ve never heard of a teacher making six digits, so I find it very hard to believe that they make an average of $86K. You’ll need to cite a source on that one.

Although I’m a big critic of state worker compensation, I hesitate to lump teachers in with the rest.

I know many smart people who would never choose to be a teacher because of the poor compensation. I’ve never heard of anyone turning down a firefighter job because of the pay.

We need to be selective about where we cut:

Cut education and we deny our children future opportunities.

Cut firefighter and other state worker’s pensions (e.g. CalTrans), and we save our children from massive tax burdens when they are adults.

[quote]Yes, illegal immigrants is a big problem. In Santa Ana, 80% of the students are children of illegals.[/quote]

That’s a pretty extreme statistic – Got a source?

The illegal immigration “problem” is massively exaggerated. And even if it were a problem, how do we stop spending on them? What specifically do we cut?

We don’t need scapegoats, we need solutions.[/quote]

Aren’t you trying to make the public workers the scapegoats? At least public safety personnel perform services that greatly benefit our society; they prevent crime, rather than cause it; and they don’t drive down the wages of other workers, either. The illegal immigrants are not supposed to be here, period.

The problem with trying to cite statistics about the costs related to illegal immigration is because many public agencies (like schools) are often **forbidden** to ask about citizenship status. Having worked in a large school district that was largely impacted by illegal immigrants, I would definitely agree that they (and children of illegal immigrants) easily comprise about 30-50% of the student population in many school districts, and it could easily be higher in districts located in poorer areas.

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=EmilyHicks]Tackling a failed pension system should be the first thing to do.[/quote]

The pension system is a time bomb – I’ve brought this up many times. However the problems with the pension system do not impact the current budget. (It’s just our children that will bear this massive burden.)

Governor Brown has to solve the immediate problem first.

I do agree that public safety compensation is out of control and fraud is rampant. I have no doubt that we could receive the same level of service at a fraction of the cost. We could pay firefighters less than six digits and still be just as safe.

[quote]And NO, teachers are not underpaid. They make an average of 86k with cushy pension and 3.5 months off every year.[/quote]

I’ve never heard of a teacher making six digits, so I find it very hard to believe that they make an average of $86K. You’ll need to cite a source on that one.

Although I’m a big critic of state worker compensation, I hesitate to lump teachers in with the rest.

I know many smart people who would never choose to be a teacher because of the poor compensation. I’ve never heard of anyone turning down a firefighter job because of the pay.

We need to be selective about where we cut:

Cut education and we deny our children future opportunities.

Cut firefighter and other state worker’s pensions (e.g. CalTrans), and we save our children from massive tax burdens when they are adults.

[quote]Yes, illegal immigrants is a big problem. In Santa Ana, 80% of the students are children of illegals.[/quote]

That’s a pretty extreme statistic – Got a source?

The illegal immigration “problem” is massively exaggerated. And even if it were a problem, how do we stop spending on them? What specifically do we cut?

We don’t need scapegoats, we need solutions.[/quote]

Aren’t you trying to make the public workers the scapegoats? At least public safety personnel perform services that greatly benefit our society; they prevent crime, rather than cause it; and they don’t drive down the wages of other workers, either. The illegal immigrants are not supposed to be here, period.

The problem with trying to cite statistics about the costs related to illegal immigration is because many public agencies (like schools) are often **forbidden** to ask about citizenship status. Having worked in a large school district that was largely impacted by illegal immigrants, I would definitely agree that they (and children of illegal immigrants) easily comprise about 30-50% of the student population in many school districts, and it could easily be higher in districts located in poorer areas.

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=EmilyHicks]Tackling a failed pension system should be the first thing to do.[/quote]

The pension system is a time bomb – I’ve brought this up many times. However the problems with the pension system do not impact the current budget. (It’s just our children that will bear this massive burden.)

Governor Brown has to solve the immediate problem first.

I do agree that public safety compensation is out of control and fraud is rampant. I have no doubt that we could receive the same level of service at a fraction of the cost. We could pay firefighters less than six digits and still be just as safe.

[quote]And NO, teachers are not underpaid. They make an average of 86k with cushy pension and 3.5 months off every year.[/quote]

I’ve never heard of a teacher making six digits, so I find it very hard to believe that they make an average of $86K. You’ll need to cite a source on that one.

Although I’m a big critic of state worker compensation, I hesitate to lump teachers in with the rest.

I know many smart people who would never choose to be a teacher because of the poor compensation. I’ve never heard of anyone turning down a firefighter job because of the pay.

We need to be selective about where we cut:

Cut education and we deny our children future opportunities.

Cut firefighter and other state worker’s pensions (e.g. CalTrans), and we save our children from massive tax burdens when they are adults.

[quote]Yes, illegal immigrants is a big problem. In Santa Ana, 80% of the students are children of illegals.[/quote]

That’s a pretty extreme statistic – Got a source?

The illegal immigration “problem” is massively exaggerated. And even if it were a problem, how do we stop spending on them? What specifically do we cut?

We don’t need scapegoats, we need solutions.[/quote]

Aren’t you trying to make the public workers the scapegoats? At least public safety personnel perform services that greatly benefit our society; they prevent crime, rather than cause it; and they don’t drive down the wages of other workers, either. The illegal immigrants are not supposed to be here, period.

The problem with trying to cite statistics about the costs related to illegal immigration is because many public agencies (like schools) are often **forbidden** to ask about citizenship status. Having worked in a large school district that was largely impacted by illegal immigrants, I would definitely agree that they (and children of illegal immigrants) easily comprise about 30-50% of the student population in many school districts, and it could easily be higher in districts located in poorer areas.

[CA renter]

[quote=EmilyHicks]From this Article, average mid career salary for teachers:
Anaheim Union: 86.7k
Cypress Elementary: 70k
Huntington Beach High: 81k
Laguna Beach: 80k

And don’t forget about the 3.5 months off.

http://articles.ocregister.com/2009-04-02/education/24667835_1_teacher-salaries-average-salary-salaries-range%5B/quote%5D

Here’s the salary schedule for LAUSD teachers — the largest district in the state, and one of the highest-paying. Your numbers are way overstated.

http://www.teachinla.com/Research/documents/salarytables/ltable.pdf

[CA renter]

[quote=EmilyHicks]From this Article, average mid career salary for teachers:
Anaheim Union: 86.7k
Cypress Elementary: 70k
Huntington Beach High: 81k
Laguna Beach: 80k

And don’t forget about the 3.5 months off.

http://articles.ocregister.com/2009-04-02/education/24667835_1_teacher-salaries-average-salary-salaries-range%5B/quote%5D

Here’s the salary schedule for LAUSD teachers — the largest district in the state, and one of the highest-paying. Your numbers are way overstated.

http://www.teachinla.com/Research/documents/salarytables/ltable.pdf

[CA renter]

[quote=EmilyHicks]From this Article, average mid career salary for teachers:
Anaheim Union: 86.7k
Cypress Elementary: 70k
Huntington Beach High: 81k
Laguna Beach: 80k

And don’t forget about the 3.5 months off.

http://articles.ocregister.com/2009-04-02/education/24667835_1_teacher-salaries-average-salary-salaries-range%5B/quote%5D

Here’s the salary schedule for LAUSD teachers — the largest district in the state, and one of the highest-paying. Your numbers are way overstated.

http://www.teachinla.com/Research/documents/salarytables/ltable.pdf

[CA renter]

[quote=EmilyHicks]From this Article, average mid career salary for teachers:
Anaheim Union: 86.7k
Cypress Elementary: 70k
Huntington Beach High: 81k
Laguna Beach: 80k

And don’t forget about the 3.5 months off.

http://articles.ocregister.com/2009-04-02/education/24667835_1_teacher-salaries-average-salary-salaries-range%5B/quote%5D

Here’s the salary schedule for LAUSD teachers — the largest district in the state, and one of the highest-paying. Your numbers are way overstated.

http://www.teachinla.com/Research/documents/salarytables/ltable.pdf

[Author]

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