Solar?

[ucodegen]

[quote threadkiller]
I’m a little confused, I thought legislation was just written to ensure the consumer/producer could sell the electricity back to SDG&E.
[/quote]
Yes, such legislation was put in place w/in CA. There have been lawsuits, mostly up north when PG&E made it hard to connect the system to the grid. PG&E lost, so there is now legal precedence.

[quote threadkiller]
I’m thinking about doing it, I suppose what is keeping me from doing it is I don’t fully understand how the electricity gets back to SDG&E. I assume it goes to the neighbors. Does anybody know if SDG&E meters at the stepdown transformer. I doubt that they do, so they are just trusting the meter I suppose.
[/quote]

This is actually a pretty good question. I’ll see if I can answer it clearly.. so bear with me. The first problem is that the power lines are AC which is more complicated, so I will first describe what happens with DC — followed by AC’s difference.

DC:
Imagine two batteries. One is yours and one is the power companies. Which ever battery is producing the higher voltage will be handling the ‘load’. Current flows from higher voltages to lower voltages – please guys, I know the ‘quantum’ truth on electricity, so lets don’t complicate things. The other battery will not be doing anything (except maybe getting recharged). The truth is that the electrical ‘load’ is not taken completely by one or the other battery, so I am going to add a ‘complication’.

This complication is known as electrical line resistance and distance. Even copper wire has resistance. So we now have a much longer system with two batteries, one at each end, and multiple loads in between. If only one battery was connected at the end, the voltage between the wires would drop as you travel away from that battery. Each ‘load’ or consumer would see slightly lower voltages as they move away from the battery. Now if we add a battery at the other end, there will be a balance in who is supplying the current for the load that is dependent upon the ratio of voltages, currents, loads and line resistances. If your battery ‘ups’ its output voltage, it will pick up more of the load. If it produces less voltage, it will shed the load until your system is producing voltage below what the other ‘battery’ would provide at that distance.

So on to AC or Alternating Current and its associated alternating voltage. The rough equivalent of increasing your battery’s voltage would be to increase the peak-to-peak voltage you are generating on the line while keeping your generated voltage phase in sync with the power station’s (The power station’s voltage goes up, yours goes up, the power station’s voltage goes to a negative peak, so does your system’s). You don’t want to get out of phase because that will cause current that will only heat up the wire. Because you are now producing a slightly higher voltage – peak to peak, you will source current onto the power line and pick up a percentage of the load.

The electric meters work on current. They sense direction of current vs voltage. If the voltage is positive and current is going into the house, it is metered as consumption. If the voltage is positive but current is going out of the house, it is metered as production. The negative voltage version is different: if the voltage is negative and the current is coming out of the house, it is consumption(vs production for the positive voltage) and if the voltage is negative and the current is going into the house, it is production. This ‘flip’ in behavior is due to how AC works. AC works by working against a ground wire which is near zero in voltage or against a capacitive ‘sink’. AC is kind of a ‘push-pull’ type of electrical system.

So far – I hope I am clearer than mud here…

[drboom]

Random thoughts:

If you have the space, I’ve seen amorphous silicon panels (Kaneka) for less than $1/watt. They’re inefficient (6% or so), so you need a lot of room for a given amount of power. But they do better in cloudy weather than mono- or poly-crystalline cells.

A friend of mine put in a solar heater for his pool and loves it. It takes up a huge amount of space, but he has an otherwise unusable east-facing slope right next to his pool so it worked out great. He changed out the pump motor for something more efficient, and that helped keep the power consumption down.

The same friend put a 4kW system up a couple of years ago, and he had a long-running fight with the (well known) contractor over the actual vs. promised performance of the system. If you do one of these, make sure the contractor gets the engineering right and puts the design numbers in writing.

If you don’t use a lot of power, the payback for solar can be lengthy or non-existent. Don’t forget to factor in the time value of money when doing your calculations (unless you’re a serious gold bug who thinks the dollar will be worthless in a few years anyway).

Mandatory Time Of Use (TOU) metering could change solar economics, and it may be coming soon. My neighborhood is scheduled for smart meter rollout in December, but I haven’t heard anything about tariff revisions that mandate residential TOU. SDG&E has a voluntary SES TOU (“Net Electric Metering” in their jargon) program, but UCAN has serious questions about whether the program works for most people. I wouldn’t depend on it helping the consumer.

[drboom]

Random thoughts:

If you have the space, I’ve seen amorphous silicon panels (Kaneka) for less than $1/watt. They’re inefficient (6% or so), so you need a lot of room for a given amount of power. But they do better in cloudy weather than mono- or poly-crystalline cells.

A friend of mine put in a solar heater for his pool and loves it. It takes up a huge amount of space, but he has an otherwise unusable east-facing slope right next to his pool so it worked out great. He changed out the pump motor for something more efficient, and that helped keep the power consumption down.

The same friend put a 4kW system up a couple of years ago, and he had a long-running fight with the (well known) contractor over the actual vs. promised performance of the system. If you do one of these, make sure the contractor gets the engineering right and puts the design numbers in writing.

If you don’t use a lot of power, the payback for solar can be lengthy or non-existent. Don’t forget to factor in the time value of money when doing your calculations (unless you’re a serious gold bug who thinks the dollar will be worthless in a few years anyway).

Mandatory Time Of Use (TOU) metering could change solar economics, and it may be coming soon. My neighborhood is scheduled for smart meter rollout in December, but I haven’t heard anything about tariff revisions that mandate residential TOU. SDG&E has a voluntary SES TOU (“Net Electric Metering” in their jargon) program, but UCAN has serious questions about whether the program works for most people. I wouldn’t depend on it helping the consumer.

[drboom]

Random thoughts:

If you have the space, I’ve seen amorphous silicon panels (Kaneka) for less than $1/watt. They’re inefficient (6% or so), so you need a lot of room for a given amount of power. But they do better in cloudy weather than mono- or poly-crystalline cells.

A friend of mine put in a solar heater for his pool and loves it. It takes up a huge amount of space, but he has an otherwise unusable east-facing slope right next to his pool so it worked out great. He changed out the pump motor for something more efficient, and that helped keep the power consumption down.

The same friend put a 4kW system up a couple of years ago, and he had a long-running fight with the (well known) contractor over the actual vs. promised performance of the system. If you do one of these, make sure the contractor gets the engineering right and puts the design numbers in writing.

If you don’t use a lot of power, the payback for solar can be lengthy or non-existent. Don’t forget to factor in the time value of money when doing your calculations (unless you’re a serious gold bug who thinks the dollar will be worthless in a few years anyway).

Mandatory Time Of Use (TOU) metering could change solar economics, and it may be coming soon. My neighborhood is scheduled for smart meter rollout in December, but I haven’t heard anything about tariff revisions that mandate residential TOU. SDG&E has a voluntary SES TOU (“Net Electric Metering” in their jargon) program, but UCAN has serious questions about whether the program works for most people. I wouldn’t depend on it helping the consumer.

[drboom]

Random thoughts:

If you have the space, I’ve seen amorphous silicon panels (Kaneka) for less than $1/watt. They’re inefficient (6% or so), so you need a lot of room for a given amount of power. But they do better in cloudy weather than mono- or poly-crystalline cells.

A friend of mine put in a solar heater for his pool and loves it. It takes up a huge amount of space, but he has an otherwise unusable east-facing slope right next to his pool so it worked out great. He changed out the pump motor for something more efficient, and that helped keep the power consumption down.

The same friend put a 4kW system up a couple of years ago, and he had a long-running fight with the (well known) contractor over the actual vs. promised performance of the system. If you do one of these, make sure the contractor gets the engineering right and puts the design numbers in writing.

If you don’t use a lot of power, the payback for solar can be lengthy or non-existent. Don’t forget to factor in the time value of money when doing your calculations (unless you’re a serious gold bug who thinks the dollar will be worthless in a few years anyway).

Mandatory Time Of Use (TOU) metering could change solar economics, and it may be coming soon. My neighborhood is scheduled for smart meter rollout in December, but I haven’t heard anything about tariff revisions that mandate residential TOU. SDG&E has a voluntary SES TOU (“Net Electric Metering” in their jargon) program, but UCAN has serious questions about whether the program works for most people. I wouldn’t depend on it helping the consumer.

[drboom]

Random thoughts:

If you have the space, I’ve seen amorphous silicon panels (Kaneka) for less than $1/watt. They’re inefficient (6% or so), so you need a lot of room for a given amount of power. But they do better in cloudy weather than mono- or poly-crystalline cells.

A friend of mine put in a solar heater for his pool and loves it. It takes up a huge amount of space, but he has an otherwise unusable east-facing slope right next to his pool so it worked out great. He changed out the pump motor for something more efficient, and that helped keep the power consumption down.

The same friend put a 4kW system up a couple of years ago, and he had a long-running fight with the (well known) contractor over the actual vs. promised performance of the system. If you do one of these, make sure the contractor gets the engineering right and puts the design numbers in writing.

If you don’t use a lot of power, the payback for solar can be lengthy or non-existent. Don’t forget to factor in the time value of money when doing your calculations (unless you’re a serious gold bug who thinks the dollar will be worthless in a few years anyway).

Mandatory Time Of Use (TOU) metering could change solar economics, and it may be coming soon. My neighborhood is scheduled for smart meter rollout in December, but I haven’t heard anything about tariff revisions that mandate residential TOU. SDG&E has a voluntary SES TOU (“Net Electric Metering” in their jargon) program, but UCAN has serious questions about whether the program works for most people. I wouldn’t depend on it helping the consumer.

[UCGal]

[quote=ucodegen]

Generally, the law mentioned earlier, is relative to something known as ‘net-metering’. The fact that you produce during the day, allows you to consume during the night. This is the ‘net’ in ‘net-metering’. If I recollect correctly, the ‘net-metering’ period is one month. If the net between consumed and produced is zero… then you don’t have a bill (other than misc connect charges/fees etc).
[/quote]
Our neighbors are billed annually for the net electrical.

During the summer they produce more than they use. During the winter they use more than they produce. (We’re semi-coastal and 1960’s construction – so only one house in our ‘hood has AC).

[UCGal]

[quote=ucodegen]

Generally, the law mentioned earlier, is relative to something known as ‘net-metering’. The fact that you produce during the day, allows you to consume during the night. This is the ‘net’ in ‘net-metering’. If I recollect correctly, the ‘net-metering’ period is one month. If the net between consumed and produced is zero… then you don’t have a bill (other than misc connect charges/fees etc).
[/quote]
Our neighbors are billed annually for the net electrical.

During the summer they produce more than they use. During the winter they use more than they produce. (We’re semi-coastal and 1960’s construction – so only one house in our ‘hood has AC).

[UCGal]

[quote=ucodegen]

Generally, the law mentioned earlier, is relative to something known as ‘net-metering’. The fact that you produce during the day, allows you to consume during the night. This is the ‘net’ in ‘net-metering’. If I recollect correctly, the ‘net-metering’ period is one month. If the net between consumed and produced is zero… then you don’t have a bill (other than misc connect charges/fees etc).
[/quote]
Our neighbors are billed annually for the net electrical.

During the summer they produce more than they use. During the winter they use more than they produce. (We’re semi-coastal and 1960’s construction – so only one house in our ‘hood has AC).

[UCGal]

[quote=ucodegen]

Generally, the law mentioned earlier, is relative to something known as ‘net-metering’. The fact that you produce during the day, allows you to consume during the night. This is the ‘net’ in ‘net-metering’. If I recollect correctly, the ‘net-metering’ period is one month. If the net between consumed and produced is zero… then you don’t have a bill (other than misc connect charges/fees etc).
[/quote]
Our neighbors are billed annually for the net electrical.

During the summer they produce more than they use. During the winter they use more than they produce. (We’re semi-coastal and 1960’s construction – so only one house in our ‘hood has AC).

[UCGal]

[quote=ucodegen]

Generally, the law mentioned earlier, is relative to something known as ‘net-metering’. The fact that you produce during the day, allows you to consume during the night. This is the ‘net’ in ‘net-metering’. If I recollect correctly, the ‘net-metering’ period is one month. If the net between consumed and produced is zero… then you don’t have a bill (other than misc connect charges/fees etc).
[/quote]
Our neighbors are billed annually for the net electrical.

During the summer they produce more than they use. During the winter they use more than they produce. (We’re semi-coastal and 1960’s construction – so only one house in our ‘hood has AC).

[briansd1]

Now is as good as ever if you want to install solar.

As of 2006:

More than 3,000 customers of SDG&E are currently selling power back into the grid, “net metering” as the industry calls it, said Ed Van Herik, a spokesman for the utility.

“While customers that are net metering electricity will realize significant benefits, electrical corporation customers that are not will suffer significant cost shifts,” Sempra said in statement about SB 1.

The number of customers that sell power has been growing in recent years, going from 10 completed applications for net metering in 1999 to 941 last year, Van Herik said.

All three investor-owned utilities (including Southern California Edison and Pacific Gas and Electric) currently have about 20,000 homes producing 155 megawatts of solar power, said Claudia Chandler of the California Energy Commission.

If successful, the new plan will result in a million homes with 3,000 megawatts of solar power by 2017.

http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20060822-9999-1n22solar.html

[briansd1]

Now is as good as ever if you want to install solar.

As of 2006:

More than 3,000 customers of SDG&E are currently selling power back into the grid, “net metering” as the industry calls it, said Ed Van Herik, a spokesman for the utility.

“While customers that are net metering electricity will realize significant benefits, electrical corporation customers that are not will suffer significant cost shifts,” Sempra said in statement about SB 1.

The number of customers that sell power has been growing in recent years, going from 10 completed applications for net metering in 1999 to 941 last year, Van Herik said.

All three investor-owned utilities (including Southern California Edison and Pacific Gas and Electric) currently have about 20,000 homes producing 155 megawatts of solar power, said Claudia Chandler of the California Energy Commission.

If successful, the new plan will result in a million homes with 3,000 megawatts of solar power by 2017.

http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20060822-9999-1n22solar.html

[briansd1]

Now is as good as ever if you want to install solar.

As of 2006:

More than 3,000 customers of SDG&E are currently selling power back into the grid, “net metering” as the industry calls it, said Ed Van Herik, a spokesman for the utility.

“While customers that are net metering electricity will realize significant benefits, electrical corporation customers that are not will suffer significant cost shifts,” Sempra said in statement about SB 1.

The number of customers that sell power has been growing in recent years, going from 10 completed applications for net metering in 1999 to 941 last year, Van Herik said.

All three investor-owned utilities (including Southern California Edison and Pacific Gas and Electric) currently have about 20,000 homes producing 155 megawatts of solar power, said Claudia Chandler of the California Energy Commission.

If successful, the new plan will result in a million homes with 3,000 megawatts of solar power by 2017.

http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20060822-9999-1n22solar.html

[briansd1]

Now is as good as ever if you want to install solar.

As of 2006:

More than 3,000 customers of SDG&E are currently selling power back into the grid, “net metering” as the industry calls it, said Ed Van Herik, a spokesman for the utility.

“While customers that are net metering electricity will realize significant benefits, electrical corporation customers that are not will suffer significant cost shifts,” Sempra said in statement about SB 1.

The number of customers that sell power has been growing in recent years, going from 10 completed applications for net metering in 1999 to 941 last year, Van Herik said.

All three investor-owned utilities (including Southern California Edison and Pacific Gas and Electric) currently have about 20,000 homes producing 155 megawatts of solar power, said Claudia Chandler of the California Energy Commission.

If successful, the new plan will result in a million homes with 3,000 megawatts of solar power by 2017.

http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20060822-9999-1n22solar.html

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