PTO policy

[kev374]

I just got an offer from a company and their vacation policy states “PTO – Flexible non-accrual based vacation program”. What exactly does that mean?

I usually take 3 weeks off a year, usually 2 weeks off around May to travel and a week during Thanksgiving to see family. Been doing this for the last 15 years and don’t really want to start doing something else 🙂

If the vacation is non-accrual then it can also mean you don’t get any vacation at all if they say too bad. In addition should you quit you don’t get to cash out your vacation since it isn’t accrued.

[Coronita]

Lol. Sounds like my previous employer’s policy…. It means you don’t accrue vacation time. When you want to take vacation, you simply let your manager know and subject to project deadlines, your manager just lets you take vacation time off.

Companies pitch this as essentially you have “unlimited vacation”. In practice, you take vacation in 2-3 week increments and usually don’t take more than 4-weeks per year. If you abuse the unlimited vacation policy, it’s a clear indicator to management that you aren’t busy enough. lol.

In theory if you have a shitty manager that hates you, you’re subject to his discretion as to when vacation time is “available” (again subject to project schedules)…But in most cases, managers don’t fvck with this, so that really isn’t something to worry about.

Also, when you leave the company, they don’t pay you anything for any unused vacation, because again, you aren’t accruing anything… which is the real reason why more companies do this. Before, there were many employees that never fully use their vacation time, and by law, accrued vacation has to be paid out. Some companies tried to cap vacation accrual so that if you hit more than say 6 weeks, you simply would not accrue any more vacation time..But still, unused vacation balances were still a financial liability for companies, so the way they get around this is to remove accrued vacation, and replace it with one that is “unlimited vacation, but non-accrued”

I for one am glad I am going back to a company that actually has paid/accrued vacation. They start everyone out with 4 weeks, and add 1 week every year up to 7 weeks starting your third year. And I think the maximum accrual is around 8 or something like that.

[no_such_reality]

Wow you mean there still a company out their offering real vacation and not the minimum 2 weeks?

As for the no accrual it really depends on company culture, your organizations subculture at the VP+ level and the relationship between them and the finance department.

It can be as flu stated or end up where someone is second guessing your manager on every vacation day you take over some arbitrary allocation in their mind. I.e. The finance head may he thinking new emps should only get two weeks.

[Coronita]

[quote=no_such_reality]Wow you mean there still a company out their offering real vacation and not the minimum 2 weeks?

As for the no accrual it really depends on company culture, your organizations subculture at the VP+ level and the relationship between them and the finance department.

It can be as flu stated or end up where someone is second guessing your manager on every vacation day you take over some arbitrary allocation in their mind. I.e. The finance head may he thinking new emps should only get two weeks.[/quote]

Yeah, the company I’m joining is really going against the grain, and one of the few that still has a really good vacation policy. 4 weeks to start, +1week for each additional year of service up to a 7weeks. It’s going to be a big adjustment for me, because I like to work.

I think you do have some of these newer companies that are doing something about lifestyle and work-life balance (at least while they are making money :)) The thought/intention is there. Let’s hope it’s sustainable… I think netflix for example just announced they are creating a very generous leave policy for workers that are expecting a child.

[spdrun]

Have enough money in the bank and be willing to quit and tell the manager to go fuck him/herself if they engage in wage theft. Theft of vacation time = wage theft.

If everyone who was victimized in this way was willing to tell their manager to get screwed, it would be a lot less common. Employees allow for this crap.

[Coronita]

[quote=spdrun]Have enough money in the bank and be willing to quit and tell the manager to go fuck him/herself if they engage in wage theft. Theft of vacation time = wage theft.

If everyone who was victimized in this way was willing to tell their manager to get screwed, it would be a lot less common. Employees allow for this crap.[/quote]

I like my old director and my old vp. He actually races a real race car on a real track.

[spdrun]

Exactly — you didn’t have shitty managers that hated you. But if you did and they were into guns, at least you could suggest that they go Cobainize with one of their toys.

[The-Shoveler]

Yep, think this is kind of just another step to increase productivity (on paper anyway).

Every year the CEO ‘MUST’ show increase in worker productivity and profit year after year after year….

Not so bad for most industries but they apply the same metrics to health care etc…

Anyway I can see a day coming where there are no full time employees, just contract workers.

[spdrun]

^^^

That wouldn’t be a bad system if (a) the contract workers can set their own hours, and (b) there’s government insurance and unemployment for all legal residents and citizens, tax supported.

Maybe that trend will finally push us to national insurance. So long as insurance is covered, a straight cash-for-labor exchange would actually be beneficial. No employer benefits would minimize the fixed costs of employment and actually reduce the temptation to squeeze blood from a turnip.

[skerzz]

My employer starts everyone at 15 days vacation, 3 personal days (that are lost if not taken within the year), and 10 paid holidays. After promotion to a certain level, vacation days increase to 22 per year and all else stays the same. Vacation stops accruing after you hit 125% of the max accrual (Ca law keeps vacation hours from expiring at the end of each year). Pretty decent policy from what I’ve seen, but the problem is finding time to use it all. Vacation, paid holiday, and personal days amount to 7 weeks per year of PTO. We have unlimited sick days which keeps sick time from eating in the PTO bank.

[spdrun]

Any employer that gives time off but doesn’t actually give employees time to use it is a lying douchebag.

[spdrun]

Any employer that gives time off but doesn’t actually give employees time to use it is a lying douchebag.

[poorgradstudent]

“If the vacation is non-accrual then it can also mean you don’t get any vacation at all if they say too bad. In addition should you quit you don’t get to cash out your vacation since it isn’t accrued.”

I think you hit the nail on the head here.

I’d check their holiday calendar. In theory flexible PTO could have advantages with the right manager; it does beat having to burn PTO to go to the Dentist or stay home with a sick kid. But I like the fact that because I rarely take vacations I have two weeks accumulated that I could cash out if I left or got downsized.

[Hatfield]

[quote=kev374]I usually take 3 weeks off a year, usually 2 weeks off around May to travel and a week during Thanksgiving to see family. Been doing this for the last 15 years and don’t really want to start doing something else :)[/quote]

In addition to everything that’s been stated above, you could simply make this a condition of your employment in your offer acceptance letter. You’re essentially making a counter-offer that says “I agree with everything in your offer letter, but I would like to able to take my vacation at these specific times.” If they can’t plan around your vacation schedule when they know it a year in advance, there’s probably a lot of other things they also can’t manage properly.

[The-Shoveler]

When a company has this type of PTO policy, if your lucky it just means they don’t want to show the Balance due on the books, but it is more likely they just don’t want to pay you for vacation at all (especially for smaller companies that typically offer these, for a larger company it generally means they don’t want the balance on the books).

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