Proposition 23

[BigGovernmentIsGood]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
BigGubment: Let me preface this statement with a disclaimer that it is NOT pro-Prop 23. However, again you either cite facts incorrectly, or misuse them entirely.

While Valero and Tesoro may only employ 4,000 employees in California, Big Oil employs far more than that number in this state. If Chevron isn’t California’s largest employer, it is close, and maintains two of the largest refineries in this state (Richmond and El Segundo).
[/quote]

Chevron employs 6,000 people in California and is California’s 34th largest employer.

http://www.acinet.org/acinet/oview6.asp?printer=&next=oview6&id=&nodeid=12&stfips=06&group=2

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Add in BP (Carson), Exxon (Torrance) and Conoco (Wilmington) and I’d be willing to be that you’re well in excess of that somewhat suspect 500k employees number that the green industry supposedly employs.
[/quote]

None of those employers are in the top 50. Let’s assume they all tied with Asian Housekeeping as California’s 50th largest employer and have 5,000 California employees each.

Here’s what that totals up to:
Chevron: 6,000
BP: 5,000
Exxon: 5,000
Conoco: 5,000

That’s 21,000 employees at the very most. You were only off by a factor of 25.

Your posts are some of the most retarded on this site. You seriously have the nerve to question my use of facts when you pull shit out of your ass like that? Pathetic. Are you posting from a mental institution or something?

Stop trolling this thread you moron. Bring actual facts to the discussion or just shut the hell up.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
The problem with green/clean energy is that, at present, its nowhere near being able to supplant oil/gas/coal in terms of either volume or pricing.
[/quote]

In Houston, green energy is priced almost the same as fossil-fuel based energy:

Green Mountain Energy is offering Texas electricity consumers an environmentally friendly service at a rate matching that of Reliant Energy — a sign of a growing interest in green energy and the rising price of traditionally produced power.

Touted as a “pollution free” plan, Green Mountain Energy gets the power it sells from wind turbines and hydroelectric plants and will cost about 11.1 cents per kilowatt-hour, the same price current Reliant Energy customers are paying.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/2938859.html

Again, it is you that is playing fast and loose with the facts. How the hell do I get labeled as a troll by the owner of this site when idiots like you are allowed to roam free and spout BS incessantly?

[sreeb]

[quote=BigGovernmentIsGood][quote=sreeb]
I continue to believe the 500K number is self serving crap.[/quote]

Why? Who’s interests are being served?[/quote]

The “Employment Development Department-Labor Market Information Division” is a state agency that is supervised by the Governor (who supported AB32 and opposes Prop 23) and funded by the legislature (which created AB32). All of them are trying to pat each other on the back about how green they are.

You don’t think it is possible that they are grossly exaggerating for political reasons and possibly to snag some federal money?

[sreeb]

[quote=BigGovernmentIsGood][quote=sreeb]
I continue to believe the 500K number is self serving crap.[/quote]

Why? Who’s interests are being served?[/quote]

The “Employment Development Department-Labor Market Information Division” is a state agency that is supervised by the Governor (who supported AB32 and opposes Prop 23) and funded by the legislature (which created AB32). All of them are trying to pat each other on the back about how green they are.

You don’t think it is possible that they are grossly exaggerating for political reasons and possibly to snag some federal money?

[sreeb]

[quote=BigGovernmentIsGood][quote=sreeb]
I continue to believe the 500K number is self serving crap.[/quote]

Why? Who’s interests are being served?[/quote]

The “Employment Development Department-Labor Market Information Division” is a state agency that is supervised by the Governor (who supported AB32 and opposes Prop 23) and funded by the legislature (which created AB32). All of them are trying to pat each other on the back about how green they are.

You don’t think it is possible that they are grossly exaggerating for political reasons and possibly to snag some federal money?

[sreeb]

[quote=BigGovernmentIsGood][quote=sreeb]
I continue to believe the 500K number is self serving crap.[/quote]

Why? Who’s interests are being served?[/quote]

The “Employment Development Department-Labor Market Information Division” is a state agency that is supervised by the Governor (who supported AB32 and opposes Prop 23) and funded by the legislature (which created AB32). All of them are trying to pat each other on the back about how green they are.

You don’t think it is possible that they are grossly exaggerating for political reasons and possibly to snag some federal money?

[sreeb]

[quote=BigGovernmentIsGood][quote=sreeb]
I continue to believe the 500K number is self serving crap.[/quote]

Why? Who’s interests are being served?[/quote]

The “Employment Development Department-Labor Market Information Division” is a state agency that is supervised by the Governor (who supported AB32 and opposes Prop 23) and funded by the legislature (which created AB32). All of them are trying to pat each other on the back about how green they are.

You don’t think it is possible that they are grossly exaggerating for political reasons and possibly to snag some federal money?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=sreeb][quote=BigGovernmentIsGood][quote=sreeb]
I continue to believe the 500K number is self serving crap.[/quote]

Why? Who’s interests are being served?[/quote]

The “Employment Development Department-Labor Market Information Division” is a state agency that is supervised by the Governor (who supported AB32 and opposes Prop 23) and funded by the legislature (which created AB32). All of them are trying to pat each other on the back about how green they are.

You don’t think it is possible that they are grossly exaggerating for political reasons and possibly to snag some federal money?[/quote]

Wait! There are government agencies out there that gin their numbers?!? No! That couldn’t possibly be, could it?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=sreeb][quote=BigGovernmentIsGood][quote=sreeb]
I continue to believe the 500K number is self serving crap.[/quote]

Why? Who’s interests are being served?[/quote]

The “Employment Development Department-Labor Market Information Division” is a state agency that is supervised by the Governor (who supported AB32 and opposes Prop 23) and funded by the legislature (which created AB32). All of them are trying to pat each other on the back about how green they are.

You don’t think it is possible that they are grossly exaggerating for political reasons and possibly to snag some federal money?[/quote]

Wait! There are government agencies out there that gin their numbers?!? No! That couldn’t possibly be, could it?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=sreeb][quote=BigGovernmentIsGood][quote=sreeb]
I continue to believe the 500K number is self serving crap.[/quote]

Why? Who’s interests are being served?[/quote]

The “Employment Development Department-Labor Market Information Division” is a state agency that is supervised by the Governor (who supported AB32 and opposes Prop 23) and funded by the legislature (which created AB32). All of them are trying to pat each other on the back about how green they are.

You don’t think it is possible that they are grossly exaggerating for political reasons and possibly to snag some federal money?[/quote]

Wait! There are government agencies out there that gin their numbers?!? No! That couldn’t possibly be, could it?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=sreeb][quote=BigGovernmentIsGood][quote=sreeb]
I continue to believe the 500K number is self serving crap.[/quote]

Why? Who’s interests are being served?[/quote]

The “Employment Development Department-Labor Market Information Division” is a state agency that is supervised by the Governor (who supported AB32 and opposes Prop 23) and funded by the legislature (which created AB32). All of them are trying to pat each other on the back about how green they are.

You don’t think it is possible that they are grossly exaggerating for political reasons and possibly to snag some federal money?[/quote]

Wait! There are government agencies out there that gin their numbers?!? No! That couldn’t possibly be, could it?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=sreeb][quote=BigGovernmentIsGood][quote=sreeb]
I continue to believe the 500K number is self serving crap.[/quote]

Why? Who’s interests are being served?[/quote]

The “Employment Development Department-Labor Market Information Division” is a state agency that is supervised by the Governor (who supported AB32 and opposes Prop 23) and funded by the legislature (which created AB32). All of them are trying to pat each other on the back about how green they are.

You don’t think it is possible that they are grossly exaggerating for political reasons and possibly to snag some federal money?[/quote]

Wait! There are government agencies out there that gin their numbers?!? No! That couldn’t possibly be, could it?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=BigGovernmentIsGood][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
BigGubment: Let me preface this statement with a disclaimer that it is NOT pro-Prop 23. However, again you either cite facts incorrectly, or misuse them entirely.

While Valero and Tesoro may only employ 4,000 employees in California, Big Oil employs far more than that number in this state. If Chevron isn’t California’s largest employer, it is close, and maintains two of the largest refineries in this state (Richmond and El Segundo).
[/quote]

Chevron employs 6,000 people in California and is California’s 34th largest employer.

http://www.acinet.org/acinet/oview6.asp?printer=&next=oview6&id=&nodeid=12&stfips=06&group=2

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Add in BP (Carson), Exxon (Torrance) and Conoco (Wilmington) and I’d be willing to be that you’re well in excess of that somewhat suspect 500k employees number that the green industry supposedly employs.
[/quote]

None of those employers are in the top 50. Let’s assume they all tied with Asian Housekeeping as California’s 50th largest employer and have 5,000 California employees each.

Here’s what that totals up to:
Chevron: 6,000
BP: 5,000
Exxon: 5,000
Conoco: 5,000

That’s 21,000 employees at the very most. You were only off by a factor of 25.

Your posts are some of the most retarded on this site. You seriously have the nerve to question my use of facts when you pull shit out of your ass like that? Pathetic. Are you posting from a mental institution or something?

Stop trolling this thread you moron. Bring actual facts to the discussion or just shut the hell up.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
The problem with green/clean energy is that, at present, its nowhere near being able to supplant oil/gas/coal in terms of either volume or pricing.
[/quote]

In Houston, green energy is priced almost the same as fossil-fuel based energy:

Green Mountain Energy is offering Texas electricity consumers an environmentally friendly service at a rate matching that of Reliant Energy — a sign of a growing interest in green energy and the rising price of traditionally produced power.

Touted as a “pollution free” plan, Green Mountain Energy gets the power it sells from wind turbines and hydroelectric plants and will cost about 11.1 cents per kilowatt-hour, the same price current Reliant Energy customers are paying.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/2938859.html

Again, it is you that is playing fast and loose with the facts. How the hell do I get labeled as a troll by the owner of this site when idiots like you are allowed to roam free and spout BS incessantly?[/quote]

BigGubment: Take a breath, big fella, you’re going to have an embolism or something.

Rich refers to you as a troll, because you ARE a troll. You ASSUME that there are 500k green jobs in California, with absolutely NO supporting evidence. Okay, point taken about Chevron, but my actual point was that Big Oil supports FAR more ACTUAL jobs than the made up jobs you reference.

Also, relative to Big Oil, those refineries employ far more people than just the ones working for Chevron, BP, Exxon, etc, including oil services companies, suppliers, vendors, etc. And a good little Bolshevik like should support these jobs because nearly all of them are union.

And, regarding your consistent cherry-picking of facts, you need to bring supporting evidence regarding VOLUME of green energy available. Again, I don’t disagree with needing to replace “dirty” energy with clean, but we are nowhere close and you probably know it.

Lastly: Learn to argue. You don’t know how, as shown by resorting to ad hominem and “facts” of dubious provenance. Yeah, I’m an idiot and retarded. Based on your writing and communication skills, I’d be a little hesitant to get into that sort of slugfest, carrying only an AA degree from a Juco. If you are indeed sporting a sheepskin from a four-year, Mummy and Daddy need to get their money back.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=BigGovernmentIsGood][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
BigGubment: Let me preface this statement with a disclaimer that it is NOT pro-Prop 23. However, again you either cite facts incorrectly, or misuse them entirely.

While Valero and Tesoro may only employ 4,000 employees in California, Big Oil employs far more than that number in this state. If Chevron isn’t California’s largest employer, it is close, and maintains two of the largest refineries in this state (Richmond and El Segundo).
[/quote]

Chevron employs 6,000 people in California and is California’s 34th largest employer.

http://www.acinet.org/acinet/oview6.asp?printer=&next=oview6&id=&nodeid=12&stfips=06&group=2

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Add in BP (Carson), Exxon (Torrance) and Conoco (Wilmington) and I’d be willing to be that you’re well in excess of that somewhat suspect 500k employees number that the green industry supposedly employs.
[/quote]

None of those employers are in the top 50. Let’s assume they all tied with Asian Housekeeping as California’s 50th largest employer and have 5,000 California employees each.

Here’s what that totals up to:
Chevron: 6,000
BP: 5,000
Exxon: 5,000
Conoco: 5,000

That’s 21,000 employees at the very most. You were only off by a factor of 25.

Your posts are some of the most retarded on this site. You seriously have the nerve to question my use of facts when you pull shit out of your ass like that? Pathetic. Are you posting from a mental institution or something?

Stop trolling this thread you moron. Bring actual facts to the discussion or just shut the hell up.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
The problem with green/clean energy is that, at present, its nowhere near being able to supplant oil/gas/coal in terms of either volume or pricing.
[/quote]

In Houston, green energy is priced almost the same as fossil-fuel based energy:

Green Mountain Energy is offering Texas electricity consumers an environmentally friendly service at a rate matching that of Reliant Energy — a sign of a growing interest in green energy and the rising price of traditionally produced power.

Touted as a “pollution free” plan, Green Mountain Energy gets the power it sells from wind turbines and hydroelectric plants and will cost about 11.1 cents per kilowatt-hour, the same price current Reliant Energy customers are paying.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/2938859.html

Again, it is you that is playing fast and loose with the facts. How the hell do I get labeled as a troll by the owner of this site when idiots like you are allowed to roam free and spout BS incessantly?[/quote]

BigGubment: Take a breath, big fella, you’re going to have an embolism or something.

Rich refers to you as a troll, because you ARE a troll. You ASSUME that there are 500k green jobs in California, with absolutely NO supporting evidence. Okay, point taken about Chevron, but my actual point was that Big Oil supports FAR more ACTUAL jobs than the made up jobs you reference.

Also, relative to Big Oil, those refineries employ far more people than just the ones working for Chevron, BP, Exxon, etc, including oil services companies, suppliers, vendors, etc. And a good little Bolshevik like should support these jobs because nearly all of them are union.

And, regarding your consistent cherry-picking of facts, you need to bring supporting evidence regarding VOLUME of green energy available. Again, I don’t disagree with needing to replace “dirty” energy with clean, but we are nowhere close and you probably know it.

Lastly: Learn to argue. You don’t know how, as shown by resorting to ad hominem and “facts” of dubious provenance. Yeah, I’m an idiot and retarded. Based on your writing and communication skills, I’d be a little hesitant to get into that sort of slugfest, carrying only an AA degree from a Juco. If you are indeed sporting a sheepskin from a four-year, Mummy and Daddy need to get their money back.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=BigGovernmentIsGood][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
BigGubment: Let me preface this statement with a disclaimer that it is NOT pro-Prop 23. However, again you either cite facts incorrectly, or misuse them entirely.

While Valero and Tesoro may only employ 4,000 employees in California, Big Oil employs far more than that number in this state. If Chevron isn’t California’s largest employer, it is close, and maintains two of the largest refineries in this state (Richmond and El Segundo).
[/quote]

Chevron employs 6,000 people in California and is California’s 34th largest employer.

http://www.acinet.org/acinet/oview6.asp?printer=&next=oview6&id=&nodeid=12&stfips=06&group=2

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Add in BP (Carson), Exxon (Torrance) and Conoco (Wilmington) and I’d be willing to be that you’re well in excess of that somewhat suspect 500k employees number that the green industry supposedly employs.
[/quote]

None of those employers are in the top 50. Let’s assume they all tied with Asian Housekeeping as California’s 50th largest employer and have 5,000 California employees each.

Here’s what that totals up to:
Chevron: 6,000
BP: 5,000
Exxon: 5,000
Conoco: 5,000

That’s 21,000 employees at the very most. You were only off by a factor of 25.

Your posts are some of the most retarded on this site. You seriously have the nerve to question my use of facts when you pull shit out of your ass like that? Pathetic. Are you posting from a mental institution or something?

Stop trolling this thread you moron. Bring actual facts to the discussion or just shut the hell up.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
The problem with green/clean energy is that, at present, its nowhere near being able to supplant oil/gas/coal in terms of either volume or pricing.
[/quote]

In Houston, green energy is priced almost the same as fossil-fuel based energy:

Green Mountain Energy is offering Texas electricity consumers an environmentally friendly service at a rate matching that of Reliant Energy — a sign of a growing interest in green energy and the rising price of traditionally produced power.

Touted as a “pollution free” plan, Green Mountain Energy gets the power it sells from wind turbines and hydroelectric plants and will cost about 11.1 cents per kilowatt-hour, the same price current Reliant Energy customers are paying.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/2938859.html

Again, it is you that is playing fast and loose with the facts. How the hell do I get labeled as a troll by the owner of this site when idiots like you are allowed to roam free and spout BS incessantly?[/quote]

BigGubment: Take a breath, big fella, you’re going to have an embolism or something.

Rich refers to you as a troll, because you ARE a troll. You ASSUME that there are 500k green jobs in California, with absolutely NO supporting evidence. Okay, point taken about Chevron, but my actual point was that Big Oil supports FAR more ACTUAL jobs than the made up jobs you reference.

Also, relative to Big Oil, those refineries employ far more people than just the ones working for Chevron, BP, Exxon, etc, including oil services companies, suppliers, vendors, etc. And a good little Bolshevik like should support these jobs because nearly all of them are union.

And, regarding your consistent cherry-picking of facts, you need to bring supporting evidence regarding VOLUME of green energy available. Again, I don’t disagree with needing to replace “dirty” energy with clean, but we are nowhere close and you probably know it.

Lastly: Learn to argue. You don’t know how, as shown by resorting to ad hominem and “facts” of dubious provenance. Yeah, I’m an idiot and retarded. Based on your writing and communication skills, I’d be a little hesitant to get into that sort of slugfest, carrying only an AA degree from a Juco. If you are indeed sporting a sheepskin from a four-year, Mummy and Daddy need to get their money back.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=BigGovernmentIsGood][quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
BigGubment: Let me preface this statement with a disclaimer that it is NOT pro-Prop 23. However, again you either cite facts incorrectly, or misuse them entirely.

While Valero and Tesoro may only employ 4,000 employees in California, Big Oil employs far more than that number in this state. If Chevron isn’t California’s largest employer, it is close, and maintains two of the largest refineries in this state (Richmond and El Segundo).
[/quote]

Chevron employs 6,000 people in California and is California’s 34th largest employer.

http://www.acinet.org/acinet/oview6.asp?printer=&next=oview6&id=&nodeid=12&stfips=06&group=2

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Add in BP (Carson), Exxon (Torrance) and Conoco (Wilmington) and I’d be willing to be that you’re well in excess of that somewhat suspect 500k employees number that the green industry supposedly employs.
[/quote]

None of those employers are in the top 50. Let’s assume they all tied with Asian Housekeeping as California’s 50th largest employer and have 5,000 California employees each.

Here’s what that totals up to:
Chevron: 6,000
BP: 5,000
Exxon: 5,000
Conoco: 5,000

That’s 21,000 employees at the very most. You were only off by a factor of 25.

Your posts are some of the most retarded on this site. You seriously have the nerve to question my use of facts when you pull shit out of your ass like that? Pathetic. Are you posting from a mental institution or something?

Stop trolling this thread you moron. Bring actual facts to the discussion or just shut the hell up.

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
The problem with green/clean energy is that, at present, its nowhere near being able to supplant oil/gas/coal in terms of either volume or pricing.
[/quote]

In Houston, green energy is priced almost the same as fossil-fuel based energy:

Green Mountain Energy is offering Texas electricity consumers an environmentally friendly service at a rate matching that of Reliant Energy — a sign of a growing interest in green energy and the rising price of traditionally produced power.

Touted as a “pollution free” plan, Green Mountain Energy gets the power it sells from wind turbines and hydroelectric plants and will cost about 11.1 cents per kilowatt-hour, the same price current Reliant Energy customers are paying.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/2938859.html

Again, it is you that is playing fast and loose with the facts. How the hell do I get labeled as a troll by the owner of this site when idiots like you are allowed to roam free and spout BS incessantly?[/quote]

BigGubment: Take a breath, big fella, you’re going to have an embolism or something.

Rich refers to you as a troll, because you ARE a troll. You ASSUME that there are 500k green jobs in California, with absolutely NO supporting evidence. Okay, point taken about Chevron, but my actual point was that Big Oil supports FAR more ACTUAL jobs than the made up jobs you reference.

Also, relative to Big Oil, those refineries employ far more people than just the ones working for Chevron, BP, Exxon, etc, including oil services companies, suppliers, vendors, etc. And a good little Bolshevik like should support these jobs because nearly all of them are union.

And, regarding your consistent cherry-picking of facts, you need to bring supporting evidence regarding VOLUME of green energy available. Again, I don’t disagree with needing to replace “dirty” energy with clean, but we are nowhere close and you probably know it.

Lastly: Learn to argue. You don’t know how, as shown by resorting to ad hominem and “facts” of dubious provenance. Yeah, I’m an idiot and retarded. Based on your writing and communication skills, I’d be a little hesitant to get into that sort of slugfest, carrying only an AA degree from a Juco. If you are indeed sporting a sheepskin from a four-year, Mummy and Daddy need to get their money back.

[Author]

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