plunging birthrate

[Arraya]

[quote=CA renter]

The game is all about increasing consumption and increasing corporate profit margins…all at the expense of the environment, consumers, and working people in the USA.[/quote]

Yeah, that’s about it. But, I am kind of beyond blaming anybody but the logic of the system itself. Even the most ethical business is forced to complete when one breaks from honest practices. Just look at the housing debacle. It became a race to the bottom. They competitively slit their own throats. Add in things like planned obsolescence, debt pushing, seductive constant “life-style images” that produce status anxiety purchasing and you have a neurotic, perpetual waste machine with junky-mentality that produces a lot of bad behavior. I mean, a economic crash is not the worst thing in the world as long as people don’t lose their minds.

[briansd1]

[quote=UCGal]Brian – when you refer to the PIGS – are you leaving out Ireland or Italy. (I thought it was PIIGS because both are in there.)

I’m hoping Italy stays solvent… I have fantasies of retiring there. (Ireland’s nice… but too cold and damp.)

[/quote]

I purposely left out Italy because they aren’t in the news.

But maybe you want Italy to crash so you can buy a retirement home for cheap in Italy.

Where are you retiring in Italy? Sounds really nice.

I have a Greek-American friend who moved to Greece, got married and semi-retired a few year prior to the crash. I’m sure that he could afford more with his American Dollars now, and even more later if Greece is forced to abandon the Euro (unlikely, but never say never).

[briansd1]

[quote=UCGal]Brian – when you refer to the PIGS – are you leaving out Ireland or Italy. (I thought it was PIIGS because both are in there.)

I’m hoping Italy stays solvent… I have fantasies of retiring there. (Ireland’s nice… but too cold and damp.)

[/quote]

I purposely left out Italy because they aren’t in the news.

But maybe you want Italy to crash so you can buy a retirement home for cheap in Italy.

Where are you retiring in Italy? Sounds really nice.

I have a Greek-American friend who moved to Greece, got married and semi-retired a few year prior to the crash. I’m sure that he could afford more with his American Dollars now, and even more later if Greece is forced to abandon the Euro (unlikely, but never say never).

[briansd1]

[quote=UCGal]Brian – when you refer to the PIGS – are you leaving out Ireland or Italy. (I thought it was PIIGS because both are in there.)

I’m hoping Italy stays solvent… I have fantasies of retiring there. (Ireland’s nice… but too cold and damp.)

[/quote]

I purposely left out Italy because they aren’t in the news.

But maybe you want Italy to crash so you can buy a retirement home for cheap in Italy.

Where are you retiring in Italy? Sounds really nice.

I have a Greek-American friend who moved to Greece, got married and semi-retired a few year prior to the crash. I’m sure that he could afford more with his American Dollars now, and even more later if Greece is forced to abandon the Euro (unlikely, but never say never).

[briansd1]

[quote=UCGal]Brian – when you refer to the PIGS – are you leaving out Ireland or Italy. (I thought it was PIIGS because both are in there.)

I’m hoping Italy stays solvent… I have fantasies of retiring there. (Ireland’s nice… but too cold and damp.)

[/quote]

I purposely left out Italy because they aren’t in the news.

But maybe you want Italy to crash so you can buy a retirement home for cheap in Italy.

Where are you retiring in Italy? Sounds really nice.

I have a Greek-American friend who moved to Greece, got married and semi-retired a few year prior to the crash. I’m sure that he could afford more with his American Dollars now, and even more later if Greece is forced to abandon the Euro (unlikely, but never say never).

[briansd1]

[quote=UCGal]Brian – when you refer to the PIGS – are you leaving out Ireland or Italy. (I thought it was PIIGS because both are in there.)

I’m hoping Italy stays solvent… I have fantasies of retiring there. (Ireland’s nice… but too cold and damp.)

[/quote]

I purposely left out Italy because they aren’t in the news.

But maybe you want Italy to crash so you can buy a retirement home for cheap in Italy.

Where are you retiring in Italy? Sounds really nice.

I have a Greek-American friend who moved to Greece, got married and semi-retired a few year prior to the crash. I’m sure that he could afford more with his American Dollars now, and even more later if Greece is forced to abandon the Euro (unlikely, but never say never).

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance] I mean, a economic crash is not the worst thing in the world as long as people don’t lose their minds.[/quote]

Assuming that people reassess their priorities and change their habits.

But that’s not likely to happen. They will keep on wishing for the return of the good old days.

Austerity and a decline in standard of living (but not necessarily poverty) can cause people to lose their minds and do wicked, terrible things to each other.

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance] I mean, a economic crash is not the worst thing in the world as long as people don’t lose their minds.[/quote]

Assuming that people reassess their priorities and change their habits.

But that’s not likely to happen. They will keep on wishing for the return of the good old days.

Austerity and a decline in standard of living (but not necessarily poverty) can cause people to lose their minds and do wicked, terrible things to each other.

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance] I mean, a economic crash is not the worst thing in the world as long as people don’t lose their minds.[/quote]

Assuming that people reassess their priorities and change their habits.

But that’s not likely to happen. They will keep on wishing for the return of the good old days.

Austerity and a decline in standard of living (but not necessarily poverty) can cause people to lose their minds and do wicked, terrible things to each other.

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance] I mean, a economic crash is not the worst thing in the world as long as people don’t lose their minds.[/quote]

Assuming that people reassess their priorities and change their habits.

But that’s not likely to happen. They will keep on wishing for the return of the good old days.

Austerity and a decline in standard of living (but not necessarily poverty) can cause people to lose their minds and do wicked, terrible things to each other.

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance] I mean, a economic crash is not the worst thing in the world as long as people don’t lose their minds.[/quote]

Assuming that people reassess their priorities and change their habits.

But that’s not likely to happen. They will keep on wishing for the return of the good old days.

Austerity and a decline in standard of living (but not necessarily poverty) can cause people to lose their minds and do wicked, terrible things to each other.

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=CA renter]
Precisely why some of us really hate our current version of “free trade.” We gave up great jobs and well-made durable goods. Yes, they were more expensive than the plastic junk made in China, but a US-made, $500 widget might last a lifetime (or 20-30 years), while a Chinese-made $100K widget lasts only a couple of years. [/quote]

Free trade is good and increases our standard of living (as measured by the stuff we can buy with our money).

Take my Harbor Freight example. If you need to fix a fence you can buy a cheap air stapler for $20. It does the job but it’s crap and won’t last long.

Why do you need a $300 made-in-USA tool, if you’re not in the trade? You need a tool to use once and maybe you’ll misplace it somewhere in the garage.

So thanks to the cheap tool, you can build your fence yourself and save money to spend in other areas of the economy.

With many choices, we have to choose wisely.[/quote]

If you have a well-built tool, you can become more self-sufficient, even if you don’t use it professionally. Most people would be more inclined to learn how to use it well, and would be more likely to put it to good use if they had to pay more for it. Additionally, other people can borrow your tool (or you can borrow theirs), preventing a lot of pollution and reducing the need to use finite resources in the production of these goods.

If you have a $300 widget, trust me, you’re not “losing it in the garage”; you’re going to take much better care of it than you would that $20 piece of crap from China.

Arraya alluded to one of the issues with our version of “free trade,” in the above post: it’s a race to the bottom. Once a competitor grows their profit margins by going overseas (even while undercutting your price), you have very little choice but to follow them. Since we’ve off-shored so many of our good jobs that provided our higher-quality durable goods, we have no choice but to buy cheap crap from China. Many of us want that choice, but it’s been largely taken away from us.

As to your quote here:

Free trade is good and increases our standard of living (as measured by the stuff we can buy with our money).

You’re focusing on price, while I focus on value. We get MORE for our money when things are built to last. IMHO, our quality of life is better when we get more value for our money.

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=CA renter]
Precisely why some of us really hate our current version of “free trade.” We gave up great jobs and well-made durable goods. Yes, they were more expensive than the plastic junk made in China, but a US-made, $500 widget might last a lifetime (or 20-30 years), while a Chinese-made $100K widget lasts only a couple of years. [/quote]

Free trade is good and increases our standard of living (as measured by the stuff we can buy with our money).

Take my Harbor Freight example. If you need to fix a fence you can buy a cheap air stapler for $20. It does the job but it’s crap and won’t last long.

Why do you need a $300 made-in-USA tool, if you’re not in the trade? You need a tool to use once and maybe you’ll misplace it somewhere in the garage.

So thanks to the cheap tool, you can build your fence yourself and save money to spend in other areas of the economy.

With many choices, we have to choose wisely.[/quote]

If you have a well-built tool, you can become more self-sufficient, even if you don’t use it professionally. Most people would be more inclined to learn how to use it well, and would be more likely to put it to good use if they had to pay more for it. Additionally, other people can borrow your tool (or you can borrow theirs), preventing a lot of pollution and reducing the need to use finite resources in the production of these goods.

If you have a $300 widget, trust me, you’re not “losing it in the garage”; you’re going to take much better care of it than you would that $20 piece of crap from China.

Arraya alluded to one of the issues with our version of “free trade,” in the above post: it’s a race to the bottom. Once a competitor grows their profit margins by going overseas (even while undercutting your price), you have very little choice but to follow them. Since we’ve off-shored so many of our good jobs that provided our higher-quality durable goods, we have no choice but to buy cheap crap from China. Many of us want that choice, but it’s been largely taken away from us.

As to your quote here:

Free trade is good and increases our standard of living (as measured by the stuff we can buy with our money).

You’re focusing on price, while I focus on value. We get MORE for our money when things are built to last. IMHO, our quality of life is better when we get more value for our money.

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=CA renter]
Precisely why some of us really hate our current version of “free trade.” We gave up great jobs and well-made durable goods. Yes, they were more expensive than the plastic junk made in China, but a US-made, $500 widget might last a lifetime (or 20-30 years), while a Chinese-made $100K widget lasts only a couple of years. [/quote]

Free trade is good and increases our standard of living (as measured by the stuff we can buy with our money).

Take my Harbor Freight example. If you need to fix a fence you can buy a cheap air stapler for $20. It does the job but it’s crap and won’t last long.

Why do you need a $300 made-in-USA tool, if you’re not in the trade? You need a tool to use once and maybe you’ll misplace it somewhere in the garage.

So thanks to the cheap tool, you can build your fence yourself and save money to spend in other areas of the economy.

With many choices, we have to choose wisely.[/quote]

If you have a well-built tool, you can become more self-sufficient, even if you don’t use it professionally. Most people would be more inclined to learn how to use it well, and would be more likely to put it to good use if they had to pay more for it. Additionally, other people can borrow your tool (or you can borrow theirs), preventing a lot of pollution and reducing the need to use finite resources in the production of these goods.

If you have a $300 widget, trust me, you’re not “losing it in the garage”; you’re going to take much better care of it than you would that $20 piece of crap from China.

Arraya alluded to one of the issues with our version of “free trade,” in the above post: it’s a race to the bottom. Once a competitor grows their profit margins by going overseas (even while undercutting your price), you have very little choice but to follow them. Since we’ve off-shored so many of our good jobs that provided our higher-quality durable goods, we have no choice but to buy cheap crap from China. Many of us want that choice, but it’s been largely taken away from us.

As to your quote here:

Free trade is good and increases our standard of living (as measured by the stuff we can buy with our money).

You’re focusing on price, while I focus on value. We get MORE for our money when things are built to last. IMHO, our quality of life is better when we get more value for our money.

[CA renter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=CA renter]
Precisely why some of us really hate our current version of “free trade.” We gave up great jobs and well-made durable goods. Yes, they were more expensive than the plastic junk made in China, but a US-made, $500 widget might last a lifetime (or 20-30 years), while a Chinese-made $100K widget lasts only a couple of years. [/quote]

Free trade is good and increases our standard of living (as measured by the stuff we can buy with our money).

Take my Harbor Freight example. If you need to fix a fence you can buy a cheap air stapler for $20. It does the job but it’s crap and won’t last long.

Why do you need a $300 made-in-USA tool, if you’re not in the trade? You need a tool to use once and maybe you’ll misplace it somewhere in the garage.

So thanks to the cheap tool, you can build your fence yourself and save money to spend in other areas of the economy.

With many choices, we have to choose wisely.[/quote]

If you have a well-built tool, you can become more self-sufficient, even if you don’t use it professionally. Most people would be more inclined to learn how to use it well, and would be more likely to put it to good use if they had to pay more for it. Additionally, other people can borrow your tool (or you can borrow theirs), preventing a lot of pollution and reducing the need to use finite resources in the production of these goods.

If you have a $300 widget, trust me, you’re not “losing it in the garage”; you’re going to take much better care of it than you would that $20 piece of crap from China.

Arraya alluded to one of the issues with our version of “free trade,” in the above post: it’s a race to the bottom. Once a competitor grows their profit margins by going overseas (even while undercutting your price), you have very little choice but to follow them. Since we’ve off-shored so many of our good jobs that provided our higher-quality durable goods, we have no choice but to buy cheap crap from China. Many of us want that choice, but it’s been largely taken away from us.

As to your quote here:

Free trade is good and increases our standard of living (as measured by the stuff we can buy with our money).

You’re focusing on price, while I focus on value. We get MORE for our money when things are built to last. IMHO, our quality of life is better when we get more value for our money.

[Author]

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