plunging birthrate

[scaredyclassic]

i like to think my riding my bike to work this morning is going to help. but i know it won’t. once every couple years, someone else is inspired to try it for a while when they talk to me. i cannot think of one person who has stuck with it over time that i influenced. Some huge percentage of automobile trips are under 3 miles, according to bicycle propaganda sites i frequent. Hell, I know people who would literally car commute 4 blocks. weird. i understand car commuting isn’t our entire economy. but it’s the oil consumption aprt most visible and most absurd

[Arraya]

[quote=briansd1]CognitiveDissonance, you haven’t addressed what you believe is a sustainable system. [/quote]

That is a tough on to answer though there are many good ideas being floated around – that all kind of have similar themes. I’m not sure yet

[quote=briansd1]
You seem to be saying that humans should consciously live modestly and not use up so much resources. That sounds like austerity to me.
[/quote]

I’m saying we — the human race — have some serious thinking to do about how we want to interact with the planet and each other in terms of social and species survival and essentially holistic planetary health(looking at the whole system) . What are our goals? If our patterns of behavior (culture) do not support those goals – it is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Indeed, global macro forces are going to come down like a monsoon and impose austerity on the world and potentially cause a lot of unnecessary bad behaviors and we need to be aware of this. Consider this time period like cosmic austerity;)

[quote=briansd1]But in Greece and Spain, people are demonstrating against the very austerity that would to lead to a sustainable economic system. The people want more money, more prosperity, that is more stuff and junk to consume.[/quote]

I’d say that is an incorrect assessment of what is going on

[Arraya]

[quote=briansd1]CognitiveDissonance, you haven’t addressed what you believe is a sustainable system. [/quote]

That is a tough on to answer though there are many good ideas being floated around – that all kind of have similar themes. I’m not sure yet

[quote=briansd1]
You seem to be saying that humans should consciously live modestly and not use up so much resources. That sounds like austerity to me.
[/quote]

I’m saying we — the human race — have some serious thinking to do about how we want to interact with the planet and each other in terms of social and species survival and essentially holistic planetary health(looking at the whole system) . What are our goals? If our patterns of behavior (culture) do not support those goals – it is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Indeed, global macro forces are going to come down like a monsoon and impose austerity on the world and potentially cause a lot of unnecessary bad behaviors and we need to be aware of this. Consider this time period like cosmic austerity;)

[quote=briansd1]But in Greece and Spain, people are demonstrating against the very austerity that would to lead to a sustainable economic system. The people want more money, more prosperity, that is more stuff and junk to consume.[/quote]

I’d say that is an incorrect assessment of what is going on

[Arraya]

[quote=briansd1]CognitiveDissonance, you haven’t addressed what you believe is a sustainable system. [/quote]

That is a tough on to answer though there are many good ideas being floated around – that all kind of have similar themes. I’m not sure yet

[quote=briansd1]
You seem to be saying that humans should consciously live modestly and not use up so much resources. That sounds like austerity to me.
[/quote]

I’m saying we — the human race — have some serious thinking to do about how we want to interact with the planet and each other in terms of social and species survival and essentially holistic planetary health(looking at the whole system) . What are our goals? If our patterns of behavior (culture) do not support those goals – it is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Indeed, global macro forces are going to come down like a monsoon and impose austerity on the world and potentially cause a lot of unnecessary bad behaviors and we need to be aware of this. Consider this time period like cosmic austerity;)

[quote=briansd1]But in Greece and Spain, people are demonstrating against the very austerity that would to lead to a sustainable economic system. The people want more money, more prosperity, that is more stuff and junk to consume.[/quote]

I’d say that is an incorrect assessment of what is going on

[Arraya]

[quote=briansd1]CognitiveDissonance, you haven’t addressed what you believe is a sustainable system. [/quote]

That is a tough on to answer though there are many good ideas being floated around – that all kind of have similar themes. I’m not sure yet

[quote=briansd1]
You seem to be saying that humans should consciously live modestly and not use up so much resources. That sounds like austerity to me.
[/quote]

I’m saying we — the human race — have some serious thinking to do about how we want to interact with the planet and each other in terms of social and species survival and essentially holistic planetary health(looking at the whole system) . What are our goals? If our patterns of behavior (culture) do not support those goals – it is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Indeed, global macro forces are going to come down like a monsoon and impose austerity on the world and potentially cause a lot of unnecessary bad behaviors and we need to be aware of this. Consider this time period like cosmic austerity;)

[quote=briansd1]But in Greece and Spain, people are demonstrating against the very austerity that would to lead to a sustainable economic system. The people want more money, more prosperity, that is more stuff and junk to consume.[/quote]

I’d say that is an incorrect assessment of what is going on

[Arraya]

[quote=briansd1]CognitiveDissonance, you haven’t addressed what you believe is a sustainable system. [/quote]

That is a tough on to answer though there are many good ideas being floated around – that all kind of have similar themes. I’m not sure yet

[quote=briansd1]
You seem to be saying that humans should consciously live modestly and not use up so much resources. That sounds like austerity to me.
[/quote]

I’m saying we — the human race — have some serious thinking to do about how we want to interact with the planet and each other in terms of social and species survival and essentially holistic planetary health(looking at the whole system) . What are our goals? If our patterns of behavior (culture) do not support those goals – it is an issue that needs to be addressed.

Indeed, global macro forces are going to come down like a monsoon and impose austerity on the world and potentially cause a lot of unnecessary bad behaviors and we need to be aware of this. Consider this time period like cosmic austerity;)

[quote=briansd1]But in Greece and Spain, people are demonstrating against the very austerity that would to lead to a sustainable economic system. The people want more money, more prosperity, that is more stuff and junk to consume.[/quote]

I’d say that is an incorrect assessment of what is going on

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance]
[quote=briansd1]But in Greece and Spain, people are demonstrating against the very austerity that would to lead to a sustainable economic system. The people want more money, more prosperity, that is more stuff and junk to consume.[/quote]

I’d say that is an incorrect assessment of what is going on[/quote]

Then was is the correct assessment of the situation in Greece and Spain?

The people are demonstrating against corruption and incompetence?

The way I see it that the PIGS, upon joining the Euro suddenly enjoyed higher purchasing and borrowing power and better standards of living, but they failed to reform and improve productivity.

Citizens of the PIGS no longer had to immigrate and work in the service sector in more prosperous economies.

So now it’s time to pay back the debt.

The PIGS are not much different from American homeowners buying houses they couldn’t afford. Is that because of corruption on the bankers’ part, or is it because of gluttony on the part of the debtors (who wanted to consume more)?

There’s plenty of blame to go around.

But demonstrating for a return to the easy money will not work. The citizens of the PIGS can overthrow their governments all they want, but civil unrest and anarchy will make things worse, not better.

The PIGS have no choice but to suck it up and accept austerity and a lower standard of living for a while. That’s a more sustainable way of living anyhow. Maybe time to reassess the national priorities?

Europe has a problem with too much debt and too few productive working people. More immigration or a higher birth rate would help immensely.

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance]
[quote=briansd1]But in Greece and Spain, people are demonstrating against the very austerity that would to lead to a sustainable economic system. The people want more money, more prosperity, that is more stuff and junk to consume.[/quote]

I’d say that is an incorrect assessment of what is going on[/quote]

Then was is the correct assessment of the situation in Greece and Spain?

The people are demonstrating against corruption and incompetence?

The way I see it that the PIGS, upon joining the Euro suddenly enjoyed higher purchasing and borrowing power and better standards of living, but they failed to reform and improve productivity.

Citizens of the PIGS no longer had to immigrate and work in the service sector in more prosperous economies.

So now it’s time to pay back the debt.

The PIGS are not much different from American homeowners buying houses they couldn’t afford. Is that because of corruption on the bankers’ part, or is it because of gluttony on the part of the debtors (who wanted to consume more)?

There’s plenty of blame to go around.

But demonstrating for a return to the easy money will not work. The citizens of the PIGS can overthrow their governments all they want, but civil unrest and anarchy will make things worse, not better.

The PIGS have no choice but to suck it up and accept austerity and a lower standard of living for a while. That’s a more sustainable way of living anyhow. Maybe time to reassess the national priorities?

Europe has a problem with too much debt and too few productive working people. More immigration or a higher birth rate would help immensely.

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance]
[quote=briansd1]But in Greece and Spain, people are demonstrating against the very austerity that would to lead to a sustainable economic system. The people want more money, more prosperity, that is more stuff and junk to consume.[/quote]

I’d say that is an incorrect assessment of what is going on[/quote]

Then was is the correct assessment of the situation in Greece and Spain?

The people are demonstrating against corruption and incompetence?

The way I see it that the PIGS, upon joining the Euro suddenly enjoyed higher purchasing and borrowing power and better standards of living, but they failed to reform and improve productivity.

Citizens of the PIGS no longer had to immigrate and work in the service sector in more prosperous economies.

So now it’s time to pay back the debt.

The PIGS are not much different from American homeowners buying houses they couldn’t afford. Is that because of corruption on the bankers’ part, or is it because of gluttony on the part of the debtors (who wanted to consume more)?

There’s plenty of blame to go around.

But demonstrating for a return to the easy money will not work. The citizens of the PIGS can overthrow their governments all they want, but civil unrest and anarchy will make things worse, not better.

The PIGS have no choice but to suck it up and accept austerity and a lower standard of living for a while. That’s a more sustainable way of living anyhow. Maybe time to reassess the national priorities?

Europe has a problem with too much debt and too few productive working people. More immigration or a higher birth rate would help immensely.

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance]
[quote=briansd1]But in Greece and Spain, people are demonstrating against the very austerity that would to lead to a sustainable economic system. The people want more money, more prosperity, that is more stuff and junk to consume.[/quote]

I’d say that is an incorrect assessment of what is going on[/quote]

Then was is the correct assessment of the situation in Greece and Spain?

The people are demonstrating against corruption and incompetence?

The way I see it that the PIGS, upon joining the Euro suddenly enjoyed higher purchasing and borrowing power and better standards of living, but they failed to reform and improve productivity.

Citizens of the PIGS no longer had to immigrate and work in the service sector in more prosperous economies.

So now it’s time to pay back the debt.

The PIGS are not much different from American homeowners buying houses they couldn’t afford. Is that because of corruption on the bankers’ part, or is it because of gluttony on the part of the debtors (who wanted to consume more)?

There’s plenty of blame to go around.

But demonstrating for a return to the easy money will not work. The citizens of the PIGS can overthrow their governments all they want, but civil unrest and anarchy will make things worse, not better.

The PIGS have no choice but to suck it up and accept austerity and a lower standard of living for a while. That’s a more sustainable way of living anyhow. Maybe time to reassess the national priorities?

Europe has a problem with too much debt and too few productive working people. More immigration or a higher birth rate would help immensely.

[briansd1]

[quote=CognitiveDissonance]
[quote=briansd1]But in Greece and Spain, people are demonstrating against the very austerity that would to lead to a sustainable economic system. The people want more money, more prosperity, that is more stuff and junk to consume.[/quote]

I’d say that is an incorrect assessment of what is going on[/quote]

Then was is the correct assessment of the situation in Greece and Spain?

The people are demonstrating against corruption and incompetence?

The way I see it that the PIGS, upon joining the Euro suddenly enjoyed higher purchasing and borrowing power and better standards of living, but they failed to reform and improve productivity.

Citizens of the PIGS no longer had to immigrate and work in the service sector in more prosperous economies.

So now it’s time to pay back the debt.

The PIGS are not much different from American homeowners buying houses they couldn’t afford. Is that because of corruption on the bankers’ part, or is it because of gluttony on the part of the debtors (who wanted to consume more)?

There’s plenty of blame to go around.

But demonstrating for a return to the easy money will not work. The citizens of the PIGS can overthrow their governments all they want, but civil unrest and anarchy will make things worse, not better.

The PIGS have no choice but to suck it up and accept austerity and a lower standard of living for a while. That’s a more sustainable way of living anyhow. Maybe time to reassess the national priorities?

Europe has a problem with too much debt and too few productive working people. More immigration or a higher birth rate would help immensely.

[briansd1]

[quote=walterwhite]i like to think my riding my bike to work this morning is going to help. but i know it won’t. once every couple years, someone else is inspired to try it for a while when they talk to me. i cannot think of one person who has stuck with it over time that i influenced. Some huge percentage of automobile trips are under 3 miles, according to bicycle propaganda sites i frequent. Hell, I know people who would literally car commute 4 blocks. weird. i understand car commuting isn’t our entire economy. but it’s the oil consumption aprt most visible and most absurd[/quote]

I’ve observed the same thing.

It has to do with bad city planning. Who wants to bike to work on wide, lifeless, streets with few other bikers around?

Humans are pack animals, they like to copy each other.

[briansd1]

[quote=walterwhite]i like to think my riding my bike to work this morning is going to help. but i know it won’t. once every couple years, someone else is inspired to try it for a while when they talk to me. i cannot think of one person who has stuck with it over time that i influenced. Some huge percentage of automobile trips are under 3 miles, according to bicycle propaganda sites i frequent. Hell, I know people who would literally car commute 4 blocks. weird. i understand car commuting isn’t our entire economy. but it’s the oil consumption aprt most visible and most absurd[/quote]

I’ve observed the same thing.

It has to do with bad city planning. Who wants to bike to work on wide, lifeless, streets with few other bikers around?

Humans are pack animals, they like to copy each other.

[briansd1]

[quote=walterwhite]i like to think my riding my bike to work this morning is going to help. but i know it won’t. once every couple years, someone else is inspired to try it for a while when they talk to me. i cannot think of one person who has stuck with it over time that i influenced. Some huge percentage of automobile trips are under 3 miles, according to bicycle propaganda sites i frequent. Hell, I know people who would literally car commute 4 blocks. weird. i understand car commuting isn’t our entire economy. but it’s the oil consumption aprt most visible and most absurd[/quote]

I’ve observed the same thing.

It has to do with bad city planning. Who wants to bike to work on wide, lifeless, streets with few other bikers around?

Humans are pack animals, they like to copy each other.

[briansd1]

[quote=walterwhite]i like to think my riding my bike to work this morning is going to help. but i know it won’t. once every couple years, someone else is inspired to try it for a while when they talk to me. i cannot think of one person who has stuck with it over time that i influenced. Some huge percentage of automobile trips are under 3 miles, according to bicycle propaganda sites i frequent. Hell, I know people who would literally car commute 4 blocks. weird. i understand car commuting isn’t our entire economy. but it’s the oil consumption aprt most visible and most absurd[/quote]

I’ve observed the same thing.

It has to do with bad city planning. Who wants to bike to work on wide, lifeless, streets with few other bikers around?

Humans are pack animals, they like to copy each other.

[Author]

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