OT: why I’m voting for Obama

[sdgrrl]

I agree Allan- I have no idea how these wars will end and what the ramifications will be in ending them. I think Iraq has a better chance of sustainability than Afghanistan only based on their commerce; oil vs. opium.

I don’t know how Iraq’s ethnic groups will get along though. Will Shia’s accept a Sunni president and vice versu without an American presence? Is it almost better to divide the country into two states? I don’t know. Then you would have a diaspora of each ethnic group. It’s tough. Don’t forget about Hezbollah(Lebanon) and Syria and how they could help the Shia populace and a possible Shia/Iranian superpower:

http://books.google.com/books?id=UPUUL2HgwooC&pg=PA37&lpg=PA37&dq=shia+superpower&source=bl&ots=5Lhs1WaW6a&sig=OHsYF0AtrOuI9QQE1uwdXSO3MKo&hl=en&ei=4CieSvTJJovkMIGG6YYC&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=shia%20superpower&f=false

I don’t know if we should commit more troops in Afghanistan. I really don’t.

I agree our country cannot afford two nation building wars. I have to talk about Bush, Delay and the Repubs who were in power at the time of the wars:

http://books.google.com/books?id=s4OeoaUDBAMC&pg=PP1&dq=war+and+taxes#v=onepage&q=&f=false

These men who wanted to look tough on war and keep their base happy with tax cuts drained our accounts and left us where we are today.

They fed from the trough when they were in office and left others to pick up the pieces.

Okay-I’ll stop with the Repub bashing.

Allan- I have no idea how we are going to get out this mess unscathed (sigh).

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Sdgrrl: Objectively speaking, don’t you see the trap here as far as partisanship goes?

While I would certainly be the first to castigate the Republicans for some really stupid actions and actors, I would also turn right around and do the same with the Democrats. Congress is enjoying horrible approval ratings and for very good reason: They’re doing an awful job.

What’s been created by very smart operators like Carville and Rove and Begala is a balkanized, polarized America. We’re riven by pointless wedge issues (gay marriage? Really?) and deflected from the issues of real substance (Education, Energy, Infrastructure, Economy… shall I go on?) that no politician, Dem or Repub, in his/her right mind wants to touch. We are sitting here fiddling while Rome burns and blaming “the other side” for all of the ills.

As far as an Iranian superpower goes: I’m no expert on the Middle East, but I think Iran is already done. The clerics and hardliners have discredited themselves as nothing more than a power-hungry group of radicals and they’ve shown a willingness to do anything to maintain that power, including rigging elections and siccing their brownshirts and Gestapo on those Iranians who were demanding nothing more than fairness and a right of franchise.

This is an educated, literate, pro-American/pro-Western populace, and one that’s fairly youthful. Watch out.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Sdgrrl: Objectively speaking, don’t you see the trap here as far as partisanship goes?

While I would certainly be the first to castigate the Republicans for some really stupid actions and actors, I would also turn right around and do the same with the Democrats. Congress is enjoying horrible approval ratings and for very good reason: They’re doing an awful job.

What’s been created by very smart operators like Carville and Rove and Begala is a balkanized, polarized America. We’re riven by pointless wedge issues (gay marriage? Really?) and deflected from the issues of real substance (Education, Energy, Infrastructure, Economy… shall I go on?) that no politician, Dem or Repub, in his/her right mind wants to touch. We are sitting here fiddling while Rome burns and blaming “the other side” for all of the ills.

As far as an Iranian superpower goes: I’m no expert on the Middle East, but I think Iran is already done. The clerics and hardliners have discredited themselves as nothing more than a power-hungry group of radicals and they’ve shown a willingness to do anything to maintain that power, including rigging elections and siccing their brownshirts and Gestapo on those Iranians who were demanding nothing more than fairness and a right of franchise.

This is an educated, literate, pro-American/pro-Western populace, and one that’s fairly youthful. Watch out.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Sdgrrl: Objectively speaking, don’t you see the trap here as far as partisanship goes?

While I would certainly be the first to castigate the Republicans for some really stupid actions and actors, I would also turn right around and do the same with the Democrats. Congress is enjoying horrible approval ratings and for very good reason: They’re doing an awful job.

What’s been created by very smart operators like Carville and Rove and Begala is a balkanized, polarized America. We’re riven by pointless wedge issues (gay marriage? Really?) and deflected from the issues of real substance (Education, Energy, Infrastructure, Economy… shall I go on?) that no politician, Dem or Repub, in his/her right mind wants to touch. We are sitting here fiddling while Rome burns and blaming “the other side” for all of the ills.

As far as an Iranian superpower goes: I’m no expert on the Middle East, but I think Iran is already done. The clerics and hardliners have discredited themselves as nothing more than a power-hungry group of radicals and they’ve shown a willingness to do anything to maintain that power, including rigging elections and siccing their brownshirts and Gestapo on those Iranians who were demanding nothing more than fairness and a right of franchise.

This is an educated, literate, pro-American/pro-Western populace, and one that’s fairly youthful. Watch out.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Sdgrrl: Objectively speaking, don’t you see the trap here as far as partisanship goes?

While I would certainly be the first to castigate the Republicans for some really stupid actions and actors, I would also turn right around and do the same with the Democrats. Congress is enjoying horrible approval ratings and for very good reason: They’re doing an awful job.

What’s been created by very smart operators like Carville and Rove and Begala is a balkanized, polarized America. We’re riven by pointless wedge issues (gay marriage? Really?) and deflected from the issues of real substance (Education, Energy, Infrastructure, Economy… shall I go on?) that no politician, Dem or Repub, in his/her right mind wants to touch. We are sitting here fiddling while Rome burns and blaming “the other side” for all of the ills.

As far as an Iranian superpower goes: I’m no expert on the Middle East, but I think Iran is already done. The clerics and hardliners have discredited themselves as nothing more than a power-hungry group of radicals and they’ve shown a willingness to do anything to maintain that power, including rigging elections and siccing their brownshirts and Gestapo on those Iranians who were demanding nothing more than fairness and a right of franchise.

This is an educated, literate, pro-American/pro-Western populace, and one that’s fairly youthful. Watch out.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Sdgrrl: Objectively speaking, don’t you see the trap here as far as partisanship goes?

While I would certainly be the first to castigate the Republicans for some really stupid actions and actors, I would also turn right around and do the same with the Democrats. Congress is enjoying horrible approval ratings and for very good reason: They’re doing an awful job.

What’s been created by very smart operators like Carville and Rove and Begala is a balkanized, polarized America. We’re riven by pointless wedge issues (gay marriage? Really?) and deflected from the issues of real substance (Education, Energy, Infrastructure, Economy… shall I go on?) that no politician, Dem or Repub, in his/her right mind wants to touch. We are sitting here fiddling while Rome burns and blaming “the other side” for all of the ills.

As far as an Iranian superpower goes: I’m no expert on the Middle East, but I think Iran is already done. The clerics and hardliners have discredited themselves as nothing more than a power-hungry group of radicals and they’ve shown a willingness to do anything to maintain that power, including rigging elections and siccing their brownshirts and Gestapo on those Iranians who were demanding nothing more than fairness and a right of franchise.

This is an educated, literate, pro-American/pro-Western populace, and one that’s fairly youthful. Watch out.

[Zeitgeist]

Allan,
You missed your calling. You also might have sdg reread my posts. She has made many erroneous accusations about them. She either is a very poor reader or prefers to see what she wants to see. I think the three you mention have created a vast divide, but I usually see Rove back his arguments up with stubborn facts. The other two are nothing more than over paid operatives and has been consultants.

[Zeitgeist]

Allan,
You missed your calling. You also might have sdg reread my posts. She has made many erroneous accusations about them. She either is a very poor reader or prefers to see what she wants to see. I think the three you mention have created a vast divide, but I usually see Rove back his arguments up with stubborn facts. The other two are nothing more than over paid operatives and has been consultants.

[Zeitgeist]

Allan,
You missed your calling. You also might have sdg reread my posts. She has made many erroneous accusations about them. She either is a very poor reader or prefers to see what she wants to see. I think the three you mention have created a vast divide, but I usually see Rove back his arguments up with stubborn facts. The other two are nothing more than over paid operatives and has been consultants.

[Zeitgeist]

Allan,
You missed your calling. You also might have sdg reread my posts. She has made many erroneous accusations about them. She either is a very poor reader or prefers to see what she wants to see. I think the three you mention have created a vast divide, but I usually see Rove back his arguments up with stubborn facts. The other two are nothing more than over paid operatives and has been consultants.

[Zeitgeist]

Allan,
You missed your calling. You also might have sdg reread my posts. She has made many erroneous accusations about them. She either is a very poor reader or prefers to see what she wants to see. I think the three you mention have created a vast divide, but I usually see Rove back his arguments up with stubborn facts. The other two are nothing more than over paid operatives and has been consultants.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Zeitgeist]Allan,
You missed your calling. You also might have sdg reread my posts. She has made many erroneous accusations about them. She either is a very poor reader or prefers to see what she wants to see. I think the three you mention have created a vast divide, but I usually see Rove back his arguments up with stubborn facts. The other two are nothing more than over paid operatives and has been consultants.[/quote]

Zeit: Thank you (I think). Don’t you feel we all suffer from a certain degree of confirmation bias? I can’t abide HuffPost or DailyKos and I would rather read PowerLine or RealClearPolitics instead. I don’t watch Fox News, but I also avoid CNN like the plague.

I’m sure I fall prey to some of the more questionable accusations surrounding Obama and the Dems, but I also know that much of what I see and read is real and, more importantly, verified by sources other than conservatives. I think the mass exodus of independents has exposed Obama and his beliefs and I think it’s going to get far worse from here on out.

Referring to him as an empty suit as Surveyor did, isn’t a pejorative to me, it’s an apt description. The very things that made Obama effective on the campaign trail, including coolness under pressure while Hillary was trying to carve him up, his soaring oratory and the message of “hope” and “change”, is now working against him. Now, he has to deliver on the message and the tempo and dynamic of the campaign has been replaced by having to actually govern the country and he’s being exposed as an inexperienced leftist ideologue. Again, not a put down, but an observation based on watching him operate.

I believe the Dems as a party are also experiencing the triumphalism and arrogance of a party that’s been out of power and is now back in, and they’re trying to do everything at once and attacking anyone or anything (i.e. Orszag and the CBO) that gets in their way.

And, I have the sense it’s going to get even more interesting going forward.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Zeitgeist]Allan,
You missed your calling. You also might have sdg reread my posts. She has made many erroneous accusations about them. She either is a very poor reader or prefers to see what she wants to see. I think the three you mention have created a vast divide, but I usually see Rove back his arguments up with stubborn facts. The other two are nothing more than over paid operatives and has been consultants.[/quote]

Zeit: Thank you (I think). Don’t you feel we all suffer from a certain degree of confirmation bias? I can’t abide HuffPost or DailyKos and I would rather read PowerLine or RealClearPolitics instead. I don’t watch Fox News, but I also avoid CNN like the plague.

I’m sure I fall prey to some of the more questionable accusations surrounding Obama and the Dems, but I also know that much of what I see and read is real and, more importantly, verified by sources other than conservatives. I think the mass exodus of independents has exposed Obama and his beliefs and I think it’s going to get far worse from here on out.

Referring to him as an empty suit as Surveyor did, isn’t a pejorative to me, it’s an apt description. The very things that made Obama effective on the campaign trail, including coolness under pressure while Hillary was trying to carve him up, his soaring oratory and the message of “hope” and “change”, is now working against him. Now, he has to deliver on the message and the tempo and dynamic of the campaign has been replaced by having to actually govern the country and he’s being exposed as an inexperienced leftist ideologue. Again, not a put down, but an observation based on watching him operate.

I believe the Dems as a party are also experiencing the triumphalism and arrogance of a party that’s been out of power and is now back in, and they’re trying to do everything at once and attacking anyone or anything (i.e. Orszag and the CBO) that gets in their way.

And, I have the sense it’s going to get even more interesting going forward.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Zeitgeist]Allan,
You missed your calling. You also might have sdg reread my posts. She has made many erroneous accusations about them. She either is a very poor reader or prefers to see what she wants to see. I think the three you mention have created a vast divide, but I usually see Rove back his arguments up with stubborn facts. The other two are nothing more than over paid operatives and has been consultants.[/quote]

Zeit: Thank you (I think). Don’t you feel we all suffer from a certain degree of confirmation bias? I can’t abide HuffPost or DailyKos and I would rather read PowerLine or RealClearPolitics instead. I don’t watch Fox News, but I also avoid CNN like the plague.

I’m sure I fall prey to some of the more questionable accusations surrounding Obama and the Dems, but I also know that much of what I see and read is real and, more importantly, verified by sources other than conservatives. I think the mass exodus of independents has exposed Obama and his beliefs and I think it’s going to get far worse from here on out.

Referring to him as an empty suit as Surveyor did, isn’t a pejorative to me, it’s an apt description. The very things that made Obama effective on the campaign trail, including coolness under pressure while Hillary was trying to carve him up, his soaring oratory and the message of “hope” and “change”, is now working against him. Now, he has to deliver on the message and the tempo and dynamic of the campaign has been replaced by having to actually govern the country and he’s being exposed as an inexperienced leftist ideologue. Again, not a put down, but an observation based on watching him operate.

I believe the Dems as a party are also experiencing the triumphalism and arrogance of a party that’s been out of power and is now back in, and they’re trying to do everything at once and attacking anyone or anything (i.e. Orszag and the CBO) that gets in their way.

And, I have the sense it’s going to get even more interesting going forward.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Zeitgeist]Allan,
You missed your calling. You also might have sdg reread my posts. She has made many erroneous accusations about them. She either is a very poor reader or prefers to see what she wants to see. I think the three you mention have created a vast divide, but I usually see Rove back his arguments up with stubborn facts. The other two are nothing more than over paid operatives and has been consultants.[/quote]

Zeit: Thank you (I think). Don’t you feel we all suffer from a certain degree of confirmation bias? I can’t abide HuffPost or DailyKos and I would rather read PowerLine or RealClearPolitics instead. I don’t watch Fox News, but I also avoid CNN like the plague.

I’m sure I fall prey to some of the more questionable accusations surrounding Obama and the Dems, but I also know that much of what I see and read is real and, more importantly, verified by sources other than conservatives. I think the mass exodus of independents has exposed Obama and his beliefs and I think it’s going to get far worse from here on out.

Referring to him as an empty suit as Surveyor did, isn’t a pejorative to me, it’s an apt description. The very things that made Obama effective on the campaign trail, including coolness under pressure while Hillary was trying to carve him up, his soaring oratory and the message of “hope” and “change”, is now working against him. Now, he has to deliver on the message and the tempo and dynamic of the campaign has been replaced by having to actually govern the country and he’s being exposed as an inexperienced leftist ideologue. Again, not a put down, but an observation based on watching him operate.

I believe the Dems as a party are also experiencing the triumphalism and arrogance of a party that’s been out of power and is now back in, and they’re trying to do everything at once and attacking anyone or anything (i.e. Orszag and the CBO) that gets in their way.

And, I have the sense it’s going to get even more interesting going forward.

[Author]

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