OT – Whitman Hired Illegal Worker

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=eavesdropper][quote=Allan from Fallbrook] O’Donnell is a lunatic moron. [/quote]

There you go again, automatically jumping to conclusions. Do you have any facts to back up your statement? Just because she’s pretty doesn’t mean she’s not smart. Sarah Palin could tell you that.

Alan, you have to be more careful about saying these things. You’re not going to have anyone to defend you when you go before the death panels one day.[/quote]

Eavesdropper: I can only hope that you’re kidding about O’Donnell. As far as proof or facts, well, I’ll just let her keep speaking and that should suffice to make my point for me.

I know that there are plenty of whack-a-doos in office and from both parties, but she’s taking this to a whole new level. Palin is thick, of that there is no doubt, but its sort of a run-of-the-mill obtuseness. O’Donnell is bugshit crazy and throws out looney crap without surcease (I know you like a little literary porn with your nightly agitprop).

I was going to make an ungentlemanly comment about Palin, the death panels and corporal punishment, but I know you’re a lady, so I’ll aver.

[BigGovernmentIsGood]

[quote=gandalf]enron, did you catch the Daily Show segment on this?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-20-2010/working-stiffed

Pretty hilarious stuff, some labor union up in Vegas hiring minimum wage, no-benefit temps to picket for them…[/quote]

I suspect this is a case where highly skilled, in-demand union workers have more valuable uses for their time than standing around protesting. File this one under ‘jobs American’s won’t do’ 🙂

But seriously though, it seems like pointy-haired boss types are always bitching about hard-working union members. As a worker bee, I find myself occasionally gazing up the management hierarchy and wondering what in the hell all that morass of management does all day.

It sure seems like there are a lot of management meetings. Is it safe for so much hot air to become concentrated in a single meeting room?

[BigGovernmentIsGood]

[quote=gandalf]enron, did you catch the Daily Show segment on this?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-20-2010/working-stiffed

Pretty hilarious stuff, some labor union up in Vegas hiring minimum wage, no-benefit temps to picket for them…[/quote]

I suspect this is a case where highly skilled, in-demand union workers have more valuable uses for their time than standing around protesting. File this one under ‘jobs American’s won’t do’ 🙂

But seriously though, it seems like pointy-haired boss types are always bitching about hard-working union members. As a worker bee, I find myself occasionally gazing up the management hierarchy and wondering what in the hell all that morass of management does all day.

It sure seems like there are a lot of management meetings. Is it safe for so much hot air to become concentrated in a single meeting room?

[BigGovernmentIsGood]

[quote=gandalf]enron, did you catch the Daily Show segment on this?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-20-2010/working-stiffed

Pretty hilarious stuff, some labor union up in Vegas hiring minimum wage, no-benefit temps to picket for them…[/quote]

I suspect this is a case where highly skilled, in-demand union workers have more valuable uses for their time than standing around protesting. File this one under ‘jobs American’s won’t do’ 🙂

But seriously though, it seems like pointy-haired boss types are always bitching about hard-working union members. As a worker bee, I find myself occasionally gazing up the management hierarchy and wondering what in the hell all that morass of management does all day.

It sure seems like there are a lot of management meetings. Is it safe for so much hot air to become concentrated in a single meeting room?

[BigGovernmentIsGood]

[quote=gandalf]enron, did you catch the Daily Show segment on this?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-20-2010/working-stiffed

Pretty hilarious stuff, some labor union up in Vegas hiring minimum wage, no-benefit temps to picket for them…[/quote]

I suspect this is a case where highly skilled, in-demand union workers have more valuable uses for their time than standing around protesting. File this one under ‘jobs American’s won’t do’ 🙂

But seriously though, it seems like pointy-haired boss types are always bitching about hard-working union members. As a worker bee, I find myself occasionally gazing up the management hierarchy and wondering what in the hell all that morass of management does all day.

It sure seems like there are a lot of management meetings. Is it safe for so much hot air to become concentrated in a single meeting room?

[BigGovernmentIsGood]

[quote=gandalf]enron, did you catch the Daily Show segment on this?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-september-20-2010/working-stiffed

Pretty hilarious stuff, some labor union up in Vegas hiring minimum wage, no-benefit temps to picket for them…[/quote]

I suspect this is a case where highly skilled, in-demand union workers have more valuable uses for their time than standing around protesting. File this one under ‘jobs American’s won’t do’ 🙂

But seriously though, it seems like pointy-haired boss types are always bitching about hard-working union members. As a worker bee, I find myself occasionally gazing up the management hierarchy and wondering what in the hell all that morass of management does all day.

It sure seems like there are a lot of management meetings. Is it safe for so much hot air to become concentrated in a single meeting room?

[Shadowfax]

O’Donnell is a joke. And I love how these unqualified idiots decide to stop giving interviews and withdraw from the media once they have had their a$$es handed to them in any kind of challenging debate. I am all for women in government, but Palin and O’Donnell are cut from the same lackluster cloth and have nothing of value to offer as leadership or even an understanding of the issues. But they look so darn cute spouting those folksy-isms and talking points!

Unions: they served a purpose once, long ago, but now they seem to have become as corrupt as the robber barons and industrialists they used to fight against. I think the goal of having a united workforce has its time and place, but it’s unfortunate that union has become synonymous with corruption, extortion and laziness. The migrant farm workers could really use some old school unionizing right now, but every one is so turned off by what unions have become that it’s an uphill battle.

[Shadowfax]

O’Donnell is a joke. And I love how these unqualified idiots decide to stop giving interviews and withdraw from the media once they have had their a$$es handed to them in any kind of challenging debate. I am all for women in government, but Palin and O’Donnell are cut from the same lackluster cloth and have nothing of value to offer as leadership or even an understanding of the issues. But they look so darn cute spouting those folksy-isms and talking points!

Unions: they served a purpose once, long ago, but now they seem to have become as corrupt as the robber barons and industrialists they used to fight against. I think the goal of having a united workforce has its time and place, but it’s unfortunate that union has become synonymous with corruption, extortion and laziness. The migrant farm workers could really use some old school unionizing right now, but every one is so turned off by what unions have become that it’s an uphill battle.

[Shadowfax]

O’Donnell is a joke. And I love how these unqualified idiots decide to stop giving interviews and withdraw from the media once they have had their a$$es handed to them in any kind of challenging debate. I am all for women in government, but Palin and O’Donnell are cut from the same lackluster cloth and have nothing of value to offer as leadership or even an understanding of the issues. But they look so darn cute spouting those folksy-isms and talking points!

Unions: they served a purpose once, long ago, but now they seem to have become as corrupt as the robber barons and industrialists they used to fight against. I think the goal of having a united workforce has its time and place, but it’s unfortunate that union has become synonymous with corruption, extortion and laziness. The migrant farm workers could really use some old school unionizing right now, but every one is so turned off by what unions have become that it’s an uphill battle.

[Shadowfax]

O’Donnell is a joke. And I love how these unqualified idiots decide to stop giving interviews and withdraw from the media once they have had their a$$es handed to them in any kind of challenging debate. I am all for women in government, but Palin and O’Donnell are cut from the same lackluster cloth and have nothing of value to offer as leadership or even an understanding of the issues. But they look so darn cute spouting those folksy-isms and talking points!

Unions: they served a purpose once, long ago, but now they seem to have become as corrupt as the robber barons and industrialists they used to fight against. I think the goal of having a united workforce has its time and place, but it’s unfortunate that union has become synonymous with corruption, extortion and laziness. The migrant farm workers could really use some old school unionizing right now, but every one is so turned off by what unions have become that it’s an uphill battle.

[Shadowfax]

O’Donnell is a joke. And I love how these unqualified idiots decide to stop giving interviews and withdraw from the media once they have had their a$$es handed to them in any kind of challenging debate. I am all for women in government, but Palin and O’Donnell are cut from the same lackluster cloth and have nothing of value to offer as leadership or even an understanding of the issues. But they look so darn cute spouting those folksy-isms and talking points!

Unions: they served a purpose once, long ago, but now they seem to have become as corrupt as the robber barons and industrialists they used to fight against. I think the goal of having a united workforce has its time and place, but it’s unfortunate that union has become synonymous with corruption, extortion and laziness. The migrant farm workers could really use some old school unionizing right now, but every one is so turned off by what unions have become that it’s an uphill battle.

[Coronita]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

FLU: Speaking of anti-union bias: I never had an anti-union bias until I actually started working with unions and union workers.

Case in point. I did a pair of retrofits for a client with facilities in Michigan and Colorado. Both projects were completely identical, I mean right down to the bolt specifications. However, in Michigan, we had to use union labor and in Colorado we didn’t.

The difference in labor costs was astounding. We paid nearly $600k for labor in Michigan and $470k for labor in Colorado and for identical jobs, with identical scopes of work. The non-union project went off without a hitch, but the union job was a frickin’ nightmare. We had supervision issues (they tried to charge us for three supervisors to watch eight employees, when only one supervisor was necessary), work stoppage issues (they would stop work at the slightest change in scope of work), and were constantly threatened with litigation (they tried to claim slip-and-fall when one of their guys had his foot slip from the second rung of a ladder and said that his knee was “blown”). Absolutely infuriating, especially when these clowns would come to work in hard hats proudly displaying the American flag and claiming that “union labor built the USA”. Maybe so, but this generation of union labor sure as shit didn’t. They weren’t just lazy, they were criminally stupid, too.

That was unfortunately the first of now dozens of projects where I’ve had to deal with unions and, nearly without exception, those same experiences have repeated themselves.

We’re now fundamentally an unserious country. The nation that beat the Germans, Japanese and the Soviets and put a man on the moon, cannot figure out how to cap an oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico. We wring our hands and point fingers and speechify, but don’t DO shit.

Sorry to vent, but this crap drives me crazy. Get the fucking lawyers and politicians and lobbyists and “advocates” and psychologists the hell out of the way and let those of us that want to work and succeed and excel do exactly that.[/quote]

Welcome to the darkside, my friend. I wasn’t kidding about issues I’ve had in my more youthful years working at a bureaucratic company so think in read tape that I couldn’t physically move my computer 2 doors down because it violated “union rules” to move anything without getting the movers to move it (which would take 2-3 weeks)…

I don’t want to generalize that “everyone is like this”, because not everyone is…BUT, I can’t help feel that we (americans) have gotten pretty frickin arrogant, even in this day and age with a terrible economic climate. It’s horrible. Government given themselves big fat pension raises. Exec’s giving themselves big fat bonuses the moment they are “profitable” (with the help of government subsidies). UAW demanding big salary adjustments just now right at the point that Ford is recovering and doing better….I mean, all these early preliminary successes are just that…Preliminary….And then there’s the litigate for every imaginable piece of B.S. lawsuit, slip/fall/etc….It’s like everyone feels entitled to big cake without doing the heavy lifting…

No shit businesses hesitate to do things here and why we’re gitting our asses kicked on the economic front. Folks are so overly concerned aabout the H1-B invasion, but then at the same time there’s not enough folks going to science/technology, and folks always say “doesn’t pay enough, cost too much in terms of schooling/etc”. Folks are already predicting a shortage in high skilled worker bees in about 10 years… I don’t know what to say… I guess the economy hasn’t gotten THAT bad yet for folks, since this sort of crap still goes on. Everytime I see those “Shame on XXX, Labor Dispute”, I just want to hurdle my shoe at the signs, yet I can’t even do that because those folks picketing aren’t even the would be workers that are on strike..They’re outsourced 🙂 !
Why do folks feel like they’re victim of something or the other these days???

Oh well, welcome to the nanny state of america.
Ah well, at least you didn’t have this happen to you….

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/chrysler-auto-workers-busted_20100923_dk

Huh… UAW… $10 bucks says these folks will appeal and never be terminated, even though currently they are furlowed without pay…

Oh well, never mind. I’m going to stay in the “I don’t give a sh!t” mood that I adopted for the past few months.

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA…

[Coronita]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

FLU: Speaking of anti-union bias: I never had an anti-union bias until I actually started working with unions and union workers.

Case in point. I did a pair of retrofits for a client with facilities in Michigan and Colorado. Both projects were completely identical, I mean right down to the bolt specifications. However, in Michigan, we had to use union labor and in Colorado we didn’t.

The difference in labor costs was astounding. We paid nearly $600k for labor in Michigan and $470k for labor in Colorado and for identical jobs, with identical scopes of work. The non-union project went off without a hitch, but the union job was a frickin’ nightmare. We had supervision issues (they tried to charge us for three supervisors to watch eight employees, when only one supervisor was necessary), work stoppage issues (they would stop work at the slightest change in scope of work), and were constantly threatened with litigation (they tried to claim slip-and-fall when one of their guys had his foot slip from the second rung of a ladder and said that his knee was “blown”). Absolutely infuriating, especially when these clowns would come to work in hard hats proudly displaying the American flag and claiming that “union labor built the USA”. Maybe so, but this generation of union labor sure as shit didn’t. They weren’t just lazy, they were criminally stupid, too.

That was unfortunately the first of now dozens of projects where I’ve had to deal with unions and, nearly without exception, those same experiences have repeated themselves.

We’re now fundamentally an unserious country. The nation that beat the Germans, Japanese and the Soviets and put a man on the moon, cannot figure out how to cap an oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico. We wring our hands and point fingers and speechify, but don’t DO shit.

Sorry to vent, but this crap drives me crazy. Get the fucking lawyers and politicians and lobbyists and “advocates” and psychologists the hell out of the way and let those of us that want to work and succeed and excel do exactly that.[/quote]

Welcome to the darkside, my friend. I wasn’t kidding about issues I’ve had in my more youthful years working at a bureaucratic company so think in read tape that I couldn’t physically move my computer 2 doors down because it violated “union rules” to move anything without getting the movers to move it (which would take 2-3 weeks)…

I don’t want to generalize that “everyone is like this”, because not everyone is…BUT, I can’t help feel that we (americans) have gotten pretty frickin arrogant, even in this day and age with a terrible economic climate. It’s horrible. Government given themselves big fat pension raises. Exec’s giving themselves big fat bonuses the moment they are “profitable” (with the help of government subsidies). UAW demanding big salary adjustments just now right at the point that Ford is recovering and doing better….I mean, all these early preliminary successes are just that…Preliminary….And then there’s the litigate for every imaginable piece of B.S. lawsuit, slip/fall/etc….It’s like everyone feels entitled to big cake without doing the heavy lifting…

No shit businesses hesitate to do things here and why we’re gitting our asses kicked on the economic front. Folks are so overly concerned aabout the H1-B invasion, but then at the same time there’s not enough folks going to science/technology, and folks always say “doesn’t pay enough, cost too much in terms of schooling/etc”. Folks are already predicting a shortage in high skilled worker bees in about 10 years… I don’t know what to say… I guess the economy hasn’t gotten THAT bad yet for folks, since this sort of crap still goes on. Everytime I see those “Shame on XXX, Labor Dispute”, I just want to hurdle my shoe at the signs, yet I can’t even do that because those folks picketing aren’t even the would be workers that are on strike..They’re outsourced 🙂 !
Why do folks feel like they’re victim of something or the other these days???

Oh well, welcome to the nanny state of america.
Ah well, at least you didn’t have this happen to you….

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/chrysler-auto-workers-busted_20100923_dk

Huh… UAW… $10 bucks says these folks will appeal and never be terminated, even though currently they are furlowed without pay…

Oh well, never mind. I’m going to stay in the “I don’t give a sh!t” mood that I adopted for the past few months.

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA…

[Coronita]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

FLU: Speaking of anti-union bias: I never had an anti-union bias until I actually started working with unions and union workers.

Case in point. I did a pair of retrofits for a client with facilities in Michigan and Colorado. Both projects were completely identical, I mean right down to the bolt specifications. However, in Michigan, we had to use union labor and in Colorado we didn’t.

The difference in labor costs was astounding. We paid nearly $600k for labor in Michigan and $470k for labor in Colorado and for identical jobs, with identical scopes of work. The non-union project went off without a hitch, but the union job was a frickin’ nightmare. We had supervision issues (they tried to charge us for three supervisors to watch eight employees, when only one supervisor was necessary), work stoppage issues (they would stop work at the slightest change in scope of work), and were constantly threatened with litigation (they tried to claim slip-and-fall when one of their guys had his foot slip from the second rung of a ladder and said that his knee was “blown”). Absolutely infuriating, especially when these clowns would come to work in hard hats proudly displaying the American flag and claiming that “union labor built the USA”. Maybe so, but this generation of union labor sure as shit didn’t. They weren’t just lazy, they were criminally stupid, too.

That was unfortunately the first of now dozens of projects where I’ve had to deal with unions and, nearly without exception, those same experiences have repeated themselves.

We’re now fundamentally an unserious country. The nation that beat the Germans, Japanese and the Soviets and put a man on the moon, cannot figure out how to cap an oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico. We wring our hands and point fingers and speechify, but don’t DO shit.

Sorry to vent, but this crap drives me crazy. Get the fucking lawyers and politicians and lobbyists and “advocates” and psychologists the hell out of the way and let those of us that want to work and succeed and excel do exactly that.[/quote]

Welcome to the darkside, my friend. I wasn’t kidding about issues I’ve had in my more youthful years working at a bureaucratic company so think in read tape that I couldn’t physically move my computer 2 doors down because it violated “union rules” to move anything without getting the movers to move it (which would take 2-3 weeks)…

I don’t want to generalize that “everyone is like this”, because not everyone is…BUT, I can’t help feel that we (americans) have gotten pretty frickin arrogant, even in this day and age with a terrible economic climate. It’s horrible. Government given themselves big fat pension raises. Exec’s giving themselves big fat bonuses the moment they are “profitable” (with the help of government subsidies). UAW demanding big salary adjustments just now right at the point that Ford is recovering and doing better….I mean, all these early preliminary successes are just that…Preliminary….And then there’s the litigate for every imaginable piece of B.S. lawsuit, slip/fall/etc….It’s like everyone feels entitled to big cake without doing the heavy lifting…

No shit businesses hesitate to do things here and why we’re gitting our asses kicked on the economic front. Folks are so overly concerned aabout the H1-B invasion, but then at the same time there’s not enough folks going to science/technology, and folks always say “doesn’t pay enough, cost too much in terms of schooling/etc”. Folks are already predicting a shortage in high skilled worker bees in about 10 years… I don’t know what to say… I guess the economy hasn’t gotten THAT bad yet for folks, since this sort of crap still goes on. Everytime I see those “Shame on XXX, Labor Dispute”, I just want to hurdle my shoe at the signs, yet I can’t even do that because those folks picketing aren’t even the would be workers that are on strike..They’re outsourced 🙂 !
Why do folks feel like they’re victim of something or the other these days???

Oh well, welcome to the nanny state of america.
Ah well, at least you didn’t have this happen to you….

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/chrysler-auto-workers-busted_20100923_dk

Huh… UAW… $10 bucks says these folks will appeal and never be terminated, even though currently they are furlowed without pay…

Oh well, never mind. I’m going to stay in the “I don’t give a sh!t” mood that I adopted for the past few months.

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA…

[Coronita]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]

FLU: Speaking of anti-union bias: I never had an anti-union bias until I actually started working with unions and union workers.

Case in point. I did a pair of retrofits for a client with facilities in Michigan and Colorado. Both projects were completely identical, I mean right down to the bolt specifications. However, in Michigan, we had to use union labor and in Colorado we didn’t.

The difference in labor costs was astounding. We paid nearly $600k for labor in Michigan and $470k for labor in Colorado and for identical jobs, with identical scopes of work. The non-union project went off without a hitch, but the union job was a frickin’ nightmare. We had supervision issues (they tried to charge us for three supervisors to watch eight employees, when only one supervisor was necessary), work stoppage issues (they would stop work at the slightest change in scope of work), and were constantly threatened with litigation (they tried to claim slip-and-fall when one of their guys had his foot slip from the second rung of a ladder and said that his knee was “blown”). Absolutely infuriating, especially when these clowns would come to work in hard hats proudly displaying the American flag and claiming that “union labor built the USA”. Maybe so, but this generation of union labor sure as shit didn’t. They weren’t just lazy, they were criminally stupid, too.

That was unfortunately the first of now dozens of projects where I’ve had to deal with unions and, nearly without exception, those same experiences have repeated themselves.

We’re now fundamentally an unserious country. The nation that beat the Germans, Japanese and the Soviets and put a man on the moon, cannot figure out how to cap an oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico. We wring our hands and point fingers and speechify, but don’t DO shit.

Sorry to vent, but this crap drives me crazy. Get the fucking lawyers and politicians and lobbyists and “advocates” and psychologists the hell out of the way and let those of us that want to work and succeed and excel do exactly that.[/quote]

Welcome to the darkside, my friend. I wasn’t kidding about issues I’ve had in my more youthful years working at a bureaucratic company so think in read tape that I couldn’t physically move my computer 2 doors down because it violated “union rules” to move anything without getting the movers to move it (which would take 2-3 weeks)…

I don’t want to generalize that “everyone is like this”, because not everyone is…BUT, I can’t help feel that we (americans) have gotten pretty frickin arrogant, even in this day and age with a terrible economic climate. It’s horrible. Government given themselves big fat pension raises. Exec’s giving themselves big fat bonuses the moment they are “profitable” (with the help of government subsidies). UAW demanding big salary adjustments just now right at the point that Ford is recovering and doing better….I mean, all these early preliminary successes are just that…Preliminary….And then there’s the litigate for every imaginable piece of B.S. lawsuit, slip/fall/etc….It’s like everyone feels entitled to big cake without doing the heavy lifting…

No shit businesses hesitate to do things here and why we’re gitting our asses kicked on the economic front. Folks are so overly concerned aabout the H1-B invasion, but then at the same time there’s not enough folks going to science/technology, and folks always say “doesn’t pay enough, cost too much in terms of schooling/etc”. Folks are already predicting a shortage in high skilled worker bees in about 10 years… I don’t know what to say… I guess the economy hasn’t gotten THAT bad yet for folks, since this sort of crap still goes on. Everytime I see those “Shame on XXX, Labor Dispute”, I just want to hurdle my shoe at the signs, yet I can’t even do that because those folks picketing aren’t even the would be workers that are on strike..They’re outsourced 🙂 !
Why do folks feel like they’re victim of something or the other these days???

Oh well, welcome to the nanny state of america.
Ah well, at least you didn’t have this happen to you….

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/chrysler-auto-workers-busted_20100923_dk

Huh… UAW… $10 bucks says these folks will appeal and never be terminated, even though currently they are furlowed without pay…

Oh well, never mind. I’m going to stay in the “I don’t give a sh!t” mood that I adopted for the past few months.

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA…

[Author]

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