ot. wait. cops actually lie?

[NotCranky]

[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=Blogstar][quote=scaredyclassic][quote=Blogstar]Scaredy, surely what I have been saying on this thread comes across as unkind to you. It just feels hysterical to me. Not high level. Not philosophical at all. I am used to way better from you. Nothing wrong with raw emotion but this is an area that call for cooler heads. There are a lot of crazies out there imagining that every thing that doesn’t go the way they want it is a huge travesty of justice. There are enough dirtbags working these folks already.

Much of the back drop to these conversation is bizarre, riots and looting in Ferguson. Eyewitness lying through the teeth and the media making a big circus out this stuff. Even your thread title looks to be on the crazy train to me. Which sentient human being doesn’t know that cops lie? Just my sensibilities at play I guess.[/quote]

i personally think a good chunk of the nation has for a very long time believed that the overwhelming majority of police officers always tell the whole truth and would only shade the truth possibly to get a bad guy.

I think we need nonstop body cameras on all police officers immediately …[/quote]

Maybe you are right, I find it hard to fathom. I think I have known or suspected that police lie since I was very young , before memory, like 3 or 4 years old. Could be from coming from a hard life. I knew of gangs that were sworn to kill certain cops too.

Still, IF the only people who would be cops are monsters we have to get philosophical. The way I see the pendulum swinging the candidate pool will get worse. How did it get to be that way in the good ole USA? Maybe it is all just part of the “Fall of the Empire”. Dystopia here we come.

I agree with California renter, and not because she has a higher IQ than me. Most people, or most people who are most vocal now, have no idea how vulnerable cops are , how dehumanized they are by criminals who dehumanize old ladies, babies you name it. general hatred from any anti-authoritarian crack pot, threat factor of deadly retaliation to themselves that they live with in big cities or even small violent ones like where I grew up.

Then on top of that , it is extremely hard to make a case against the bad guy, and even if there is one , politics, low budgets, technicalities make it so only a sliver of them even go to the circus. I mean court. How does anyone keep morale …the paycheck and benefits will not do it.[/quote]

our incarceration numbers and rates are right at the very top of the world: maybe that’ll help morale?[/quote]
You really want to be on one side of this thing. Oh well.

[spdrun]

^^^

Sometimes, there’s only one right side to be on. i.e. not the side of people who welcome a guest to this country by perpetrating grievous mayhem on him.

[scaredyclassic]

As I see it, cop worship is right behind military worship. A healthy mistrust and caution about using both in a restrained fashion is what seems necessary.

maybe it’s the decades of damage wrought by a ridiculous drug war vigorously prosecuted by cops.

Maybe it’s just the sense that the tide is swinging the other way and some glimmer of hope I see…

[NotCranky]

[quote=spdrun]^^^

Sometimes, there’s only one right side to be on. i.e. not the side of people who welcome a guest to this country by perpetrating grievous mayhem on him.[/quote]
Ha ha ha, you should pour your victorious self a celebration drink.

[NotCranky]

[quote=scaredyclassic]As I see it, cop worship is right behind military worship. A healthy mistrust and caution about using both in a restrained fashion is what seems necessary.

maybe it’s the decades of damage wrought by a ridiculous drug war vigorously prosecuted by cops.

Maybe it’s just the sense that the tide is swinging the other way and some glimmer of hope I see…[/quote]

I am out of here scaredy, you guys have it all right. What’s the point. See on Religion? Please? If Rome is burning maybe we should get back to that.

[scaredyclassic]

I agree we need police.

I agree society should respect the police.

I believe police should always be honest and follow the law.

I believe they should receive the full brunt of the law when they dont.

I want full transparency and recording of all police interactions.

I believe all drugs should be legal and it is Immoral to cage someone who has a drug problem. This makes me very suspicious of police as this is largely been their goal for the last 40 years.

I am glad to see at least some skepticism that police are always acting in our best interedt.

Is any of this really all that controversial except the drug positiin. Not sure what you’re so tweaked about?

I could be misreading you but it sounds like it’s give the cops extreme deference because their job is scary (though perhaps not as statistically dangerous as many other jobs and certainly less dangerous than being in prison)

[spdrun]

I would go a step further and say that most victimless crimes or crimes that endanger mainly the offender should be abolished.

Drinking in public in the absence of unruly or violent behavior? Should be 100% legal. Same with petty things like being in a park after hours, jaywalking, etc.

[NotCranky]

[quote=scaredyclassic]I agree we need police.

I agree society should respect the police.

I believe police should always be honest and follow the law.

I believe they should receive the full brunt of the law when they dont.

I want full transparency and recording of all police interactions.

I believe all drugs should be legal and it is I’m moral to cage someone who has a drug problem.

I am glad to see at least some skepticism that police are always acting in our best interedt.

Is any of this really all that controversial except the drug positiin. Not sure what you’re so tweaked about?[/quote]

Not really tweaked. More fatigued. Seems like we are just talking around each other. Time to move on. BTW, every time I have ever been up for jury selection, the prosecution throws me off. I am with you on everything you just posted, against three strikes etc. At first I just started playing devil’s advocate here, then I begin to think, wow, There is a lot of misunderstanding here, the problem is bigger than bad acts by cops. Couldn’t open any discussion on that at all, just more example of bad acts thrown back, it’s all very onesided . Once you are told you are a wrong side of things after all that, well it’s easy to realize this is just all exhausting!

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Blogstar][quote=scaredyclassic]I agree we need police.

I agree society should respect the police.

I believe police should always be honest and follow the law.

I believe they should receive the full brunt of the law when they dont.

I want full transparency and recording of all police interactions.

I believe all drugs should be legal and it is I’m moral to cage someone who has a drug problem.

I am glad to see at least some skepticism that police are always acting in our best interedt.

Is any of this really all that controversial except the drug positiin. Not sure what you’re so tweaked about?[/quote]

Not really tweaked. More fatigued. Seems like we are just talking around each other. Time to move on. BTW, every time I have ever been up for jury selection, the prosecution throws me off. I am with you on everything you just posted, against three strikes etc. At first I just started playing devil’s advocate here, then I begin to think, wow, There is a lot of misunderstanding here, the problem is bigger than bad acts by cops. Couldn’t open any discussion on that at all, just more example of bad acts thrown back, it’s all very onesided . Once you are told you are a wrong side of things after all that, well it’s easy to realize this is just all exhausting![/quote]

OK. I see that. I apologize. i agree the problem is bigger than just bad cops. it’s probably just a symptom of a sick society.

shoot, whats the answer? hell if I know. Id like to see a less mean society, one where there is no way in hell anyone can see that videotape of the way that indian guy was treated as in any way remotely acceptable. Course, I’d also liek to see less meanness on the part of the criminals also…but we have a giant machine that seems designed to esnure a portion of our population will be raise din meanness and graduate to to prison and churns them out even meaner and less employable and apart from society with every prison stay…

it’s a machine of horror. the polcie are perhaps just the face of the machine…

[NotCranky]

[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=Blogstar][quote=scaredyclassic]I agree we need police.

I agree society should respect the police.

I believe police should always be honest and follow the law.

I believe they should receive the full brunt of the law when they dont.

I want full transparency and recording of all police interactions.

I believe all drugs should be legal and it is I’m moral to cage someone who has a drug problem.

I am glad to see at least some skepticism that police are always acting in our best interedt.

Is any of this really all that controversial except the drug positiin. Not sure what you’re so tweaked about?[/quote]

Not really tweaked. More fatigued. Seems like we are just talking around each other. Time to move on. BTW, every time I have ever been up for jury selection, the prosecution throws me off. I am with you on everything you just posted, against three strikes etc. At first I just started playing devil’s advocate here, then I begin to think, wow, There is a lot of misunderstanding here, the problem is bigger than bad acts by cops. Couldn’t open any discussion on that at all, just more example of bad acts thrown back, it’s all very onesided . Once you are told you are a wrong side of things after all that, well it’s easy to realize this is just all exhausting![/quote]

OK. I see that. I apologize. i agree the problem is bigger than just bad cops. it’s probably just a symptom of a sick society.

shoot, whats the answer? hell if I know. Id like to see a less mean society, one where there is no way in hell anyone can see that videotape of the way that indian guy was treated as in any way remotely acceptable. Course, I’d also liek to see less meanness on the part of the criminals also…but we have a giant machine that send s everyone to prison and churns them out even meaner and less employable and apart from society with every prison stay…

it’s a machine of horror.[/quote]

Thanks, Scaredy, It’s all very sad and frightening. I have a friend through another friend and I just visited him in Otay Mesa and then got him out a few weeks later after he did time instead of an ankle bracelet. Really nice guy, and black and poor. Has a small military pension I think. 50ish never in trouble before and seems to have acted out and made a violent threat due to paranoia. My friend hired a lawyer for our friend to settle for the bracelet but he chose two weeks instead. Luckily got it down to a misdemeanor. I am afraid with the paranoia thing he may become another recidivist statistic. Really beautiful, kind , open, well meaning person any time I have ever been around him.

[FlyerInHi]

Spd, can you imagine if an American tourist is beaten up by police in a foreign country and a video went viral? The embassador would be hauled in the state department for an explanation. Then depending on the seriousness of the crime, the American public could demand a bombing of the country.

[scaredyclassic]

a conservative is just a liberal who hasnt been mugged yet.

a liberal is justa conservative whose kid hasnt gotten in trouble yet

(i just made up the 2nd quote, maybe i oughta copyright that).

sad about your freind. Criminal threats is serious business in ca. it’s a strike as afelony. Usually it’s the powerless or stressed who make them, since generally no one with any actual power threatens, they just do, or if they did threaten the victim would be actually too scared to call the police. Once they have that, it’s all downhill, as any subsequent felony is presumed prison by law. He was lucky to get it down toa misdemeanor and escape that trap, probably his military record got a nod from the prosecutor.

my wife then girlfriend was the victim of a pretty violent attempted carjacking by gun in L.A. in the early 90s. she literally resisted and fought off a young armed dude (at 90 lbs and 5 feet tall). had the guy ran and the cops chased him, i would not have wanted them to stomp him. that’s mean revenge, no better than if i could find out who he is today and go stomp him. fear and revenge and returning meanness with meanness never seem to me the answer. kindness and courage seem to me the answer.

incidentally, that happened when we had only known each other a short time, and the way she handled herself was one of the things that made it clear in my mind that this was the girl for me.

[Anonymous]

[quote=scaredyclassic]shoot, whats the answer?[/quote]

For many cops, shoot is the answer.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=scaredyclassic]a conservative is just a liberal who hasnt been mugged yet.
[/quote]

When I think conservative, I think Brooks Brothers and country club. Ragtag low-class conservatives are just low-class emotional folksy folks to me.

[quote=scaredyclassic]
. fear and revenge and returning meanness with meanness never seem to me the answer. kindness and courage seem to me the answer.

incidentally, that happened when we had only known each other a short time, and the way she handled herself was one of the things that made it clear in my mind that this was the girl for me.[/quote]

I was very mean to a property manager yesterday. She was a bitch so I told her off and called the owner directly. The unit upstairs is leaking into mine. The owner was a bitch too so I was mean to her. It’s a problem that can be taken care of easily if they would nice, acknowledge the problem and fix it. But they made their choice and it will now cost them many thousands with the insurance experts and contractors involved.

I returned meanness with meanness, so that’s why I’m not married and still lonely. haha…

There is a satisfaction in putting people where they belong. Maybe some people only understand force with more force. They shoot you with a small gun, you need to own a bigger gun and shoot back. You might have to nuke them before they get the message.

[spdrun]

Instead of being mean, why not make friends with the HOA board president and speak to him/her directly? I doubt the HOA would want a leak in their building combined with an inept property manager and a crazytown owner.

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