OT: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education

[barnaby33]

Though it belabored a few points I thought the article was well written and from an angle that most of us don’t tend to think much about.

I went to CSUSM and only felt it was inferior for about a year. I got a much better education in CS than my counterparts who went to UCSD. I had to accept that while I was bright I wasn’t going to an elite school very early on, like 9th grade. I always felt grades were important, but not so important that I wanted to kill myself to get good ones. I was never able to quantify that feeling that I didn’t want to study and take extra curricular activities just to get into a better school. Possibly I just wansn’t mature enough, but maybe I will be some day.

Josh

[svelte]

[quote=Navydoc]Since I started residency I have not had a single patient ask me where I went to medical school. They judge me on my ability to interact with them, and my skill in educating them about their condition.[/quote]

I would concur, but would ensure you include “the ability to diagnose” in your “educate them” category.

My wife and I currently have a doctor who does all of those things wonderfully…in our eyes he is as great as they come.

And we have no idea where he went to school.

[svelte]

[quote=Navydoc]Since I started residency I have not had a single patient ask me where I went to medical school. They judge me on my ability to interact with them, and my skill in educating them about their condition.[/quote]

I would concur, but would ensure you include “the ability to diagnose” in your “educate them” category.

My wife and I currently have a doctor who does all of those things wonderfully…in our eyes he is as great as they come.

And we have no idea where he went to school.

[svelte]

[quote=Navydoc]Since I started residency I have not had a single patient ask me where I went to medical school. They judge me on my ability to interact with them, and my skill in educating them about their condition.[/quote]

I would concur, but would ensure you include “the ability to diagnose” in your “educate them” category.

My wife and I currently have a doctor who does all of those things wonderfully…in our eyes he is as great as they come.

And we have no idea where he went to school.

[svelte]

[quote=Navydoc]Since I started residency I have not had a single patient ask me where I went to medical school. They judge me on my ability to interact with them, and my skill in educating them about their condition.[/quote]

I would concur, but would ensure you include “the ability to diagnose” in your “educate them” category.

My wife and I currently have a doctor who does all of those things wonderfully…in our eyes he is as great as they come.

And we have no idea where he went to school.

[svelte]

[quote=Navydoc]Since I started residency I have not had a single patient ask me where I went to medical school. They judge me on my ability to interact with them, and my skill in educating them about their condition.[/quote]

I would concur, but would ensure you include “the ability to diagnose” in your “educate them” category.

My wife and I currently have a doctor who does all of those things wonderfully…in our eyes he is as great as they come.

And we have no idea where he went to school.

[equalizer]

[quote=Navydoc]I would argue strongly that going to a top school doesn’t make you a good doctor. … We went to the University of Pittsburgh, a good second tier school. Who do you want to operate on you? The studious honors student with no clinical judgment, or the average student who concentrated on being more well rounded, and can make better decisions? …

[/quote]

UofP is not second tier. Isn’t where the most elite doctor in the America, JAMA editor in chief Catherine DeAngelis earned her degree?

JAMA Editor Calls Critic a ‘Nobody and a Nothing’
[Mar 13 2009]

“Jonathan Leo, a professor of neuro-anatomy at tiny Lincoln Memorial University in Harrogate, Tenn., posted a letter on the Web site of the British Medical Journal this month criticizing a study that appeared in JAMA last spring. The study concerned the use of the anti-depressant Lexapro in stroke patients. In addition to identifying what he said was an important omission in the paper — that behavioral therapy worked just as well as the drug when compared head to head in the study — Leo also pointed out that the lead author had a financial relationship with Forest Laboratories, the maker of Lexapro, that was not disclosed in the study.

In a conversation with us [WSJ reporters], DeAngelis was none too happy to be questioned about the dust-up with Leo.

“This guy is a nobody and a nothing” she said of Leo. “He is trying to make a name for himself. Please call me about something important.” She added that Leo “should be spending time with his students instead of doing this.”

Leo says he received an angry call from JAMA executive deputy editor Phil Fontanarosa last week, shortly after Leo’s article was published on the BMJ Web site. “He said, ‘Who do you think you are,’ ” says Leo. “He then said, ‘You are banned from JAMA for life. You will be sorry. Your school will be sorry. Your students will be sorry.” Fontanarosa referred a call for comment to a JAMA spokeswoman, who said Leo’s retelling of the conversation was “inaccurate.” ”

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/03/13/jama-editor-calls-critic-a-nobody-and-a-nothing/

But it gets better. Instead of making a retraction, JAMA adopted a new policy, total censorship of critics:

“As a result of the flap, JAMA says it is adopting a new policy under which anyone asserting that study authors have failed to disclose conflicts of interest should keep the matter confidential until JAMA investigates, the WSJ reports. That move is already generating controversy.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/03/23/jama-sets-new-policy-in-wake-of-disclosure-flap/

A policy for readers of JAMA? You cant adopt a policy for readers, only authors! Oh, wait I just read the licensing agreement on the cover page that states that reader must not object in a public forum, or be banned for life. But what do I know, I didn’t go to Harvard Med, otherwise known as Corporate Med. Damn, I didn’t even go to Med school, am I less than a nobody and a nothing? What does that make me,a Pigg?

[equalizer]

[quote=Navydoc]I would argue strongly that going to a top school doesn’t make you a good doctor. … We went to the University of Pittsburgh, a good second tier school. Who do you want to operate on you? The studious honors student with no clinical judgment, or the average student who concentrated on being more well rounded, and can make better decisions? …

[/quote]

UofP is not second tier. Isn’t where the most elite doctor in the America, JAMA editor in chief Catherine DeAngelis earned her degree?

JAMA Editor Calls Critic a ‘Nobody and a Nothing’
[Mar 13 2009]

“Jonathan Leo, a professor of neuro-anatomy at tiny Lincoln Memorial University in Harrogate, Tenn., posted a letter on the Web site of the British Medical Journal this month criticizing a study that appeared in JAMA last spring. The study concerned the use of the anti-depressant Lexapro in stroke patients. In addition to identifying what he said was an important omission in the paper — that behavioral therapy worked just as well as the drug when compared head to head in the study — Leo also pointed out that the lead author had a financial relationship with Forest Laboratories, the maker of Lexapro, that was not disclosed in the study.

In a conversation with us [WSJ reporters], DeAngelis was none too happy to be questioned about the dust-up with Leo.

“This guy is a nobody and a nothing” she said of Leo. “He is trying to make a name for himself. Please call me about something important.” She added that Leo “should be spending time with his students instead of doing this.”

Leo says he received an angry call from JAMA executive deputy editor Phil Fontanarosa last week, shortly after Leo’s article was published on the BMJ Web site. “He said, ‘Who do you think you are,’ ” says Leo. “He then said, ‘You are banned from JAMA for life. You will be sorry. Your school will be sorry. Your students will be sorry.” Fontanarosa referred a call for comment to a JAMA spokeswoman, who said Leo’s retelling of the conversation was “inaccurate.” ”

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/03/13/jama-editor-calls-critic-a-nobody-and-a-nothing/

But it gets better. Instead of making a retraction, JAMA adopted a new policy, total censorship of critics:

“As a result of the flap, JAMA says it is adopting a new policy under which anyone asserting that study authors have failed to disclose conflicts of interest should keep the matter confidential until JAMA investigates, the WSJ reports. That move is already generating controversy.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/03/23/jama-sets-new-policy-in-wake-of-disclosure-flap/

A policy for readers of JAMA? You cant adopt a policy for readers, only authors! Oh, wait I just read the licensing agreement on the cover page that states that reader must not object in a public forum, or be banned for life. But what do I know, I didn’t go to Harvard Med, otherwise known as Corporate Med. Damn, I didn’t even go to Med school, am I less than a nobody and a nothing? What does that make me,a Pigg?

[equalizer]

[quote=Navydoc]I would argue strongly that going to a top school doesn’t make you a good doctor. … We went to the University of Pittsburgh, a good second tier school. Who do you want to operate on you? The studious honors student with no clinical judgment, or the average student who concentrated on being more well rounded, and can make better decisions? …

[/quote]

UofP is not second tier. Isn’t where the most elite doctor in the America, JAMA editor in chief Catherine DeAngelis earned her degree?

JAMA Editor Calls Critic a ‘Nobody and a Nothing’
[Mar 13 2009]

“Jonathan Leo, a professor of neuro-anatomy at tiny Lincoln Memorial University in Harrogate, Tenn., posted a letter on the Web site of the British Medical Journal this month criticizing a study that appeared in JAMA last spring. The study concerned the use of the anti-depressant Lexapro in stroke patients. In addition to identifying what he said was an important omission in the paper — that behavioral therapy worked just as well as the drug when compared head to head in the study — Leo also pointed out that the lead author had a financial relationship with Forest Laboratories, the maker of Lexapro, that was not disclosed in the study.

In a conversation with us [WSJ reporters], DeAngelis was none too happy to be questioned about the dust-up with Leo.

“This guy is a nobody and a nothing” she said of Leo. “He is trying to make a name for himself. Please call me about something important.” She added that Leo “should be spending time with his students instead of doing this.”

Leo says he received an angry call from JAMA executive deputy editor Phil Fontanarosa last week, shortly after Leo’s article was published on the BMJ Web site. “He said, ‘Who do you think you are,’ ” says Leo. “He then said, ‘You are banned from JAMA for life. You will be sorry. Your school will be sorry. Your students will be sorry.” Fontanarosa referred a call for comment to a JAMA spokeswoman, who said Leo’s retelling of the conversation was “inaccurate.” ”

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/03/13/jama-editor-calls-critic-a-nobody-and-a-nothing/

But it gets better. Instead of making a retraction, JAMA adopted a new policy, total censorship of critics:

“As a result of the flap, JAMA says it is adopting a new policy under which anyone asserting that study authors have failed to disclose conflicts of interest should keep the matter confidential until JAMA investigates, the WSJ reports. That move is already generating controversy.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/03/23/jama-sets-new-policy-in-wake-of-disclosure-flap/

A policy for readers of JAMA? You cant adopt a policy for readers, only authors! Oh, wait I just read the licensing agreement on the cover page that states that reader must not object in a public forum, or be banned for life. But what do I know, I didn’t go to Harvard Med, otherwise known as Corporate Med. Damn, I didn’t even go to Med school, am I less than a nobody and a nothing? What does that make me,a Pigg?

[equalizer]

[quote=Navydoc]I would argue strongly that going to a top school doesn’t make you a good doctor. … We went to the University of Pittsburgh, a good second tier school. Who do you want to operate on you? The studious honors student with no clinical judgment, or the average student who concentrated on being more well rounded, and can make better decisions? …

[/quote]

UofP is not second tier. Isn’t where the most elite doctor in the America, JAMA editor in chief Catherine DeAngelis earned her degree?

JAMA Editor Calls Critic a ‘Nobody and a Nothing’
[Mar 13 2009]

“Jonathan Leo, a professor of neuro-anatomy at tiny Lincoln Memorial University in Harrogate, Tenn., posted a letter on the Web site of the British Medical Journal this month criticizing a study that appeared in JAMA last spring. The study concerned the use of the anti-depressant Lexapro in stroke patients. In addition to identifying what he said was an important omission in the paper — that behavioral therapy worked just as well as the drug when compared head to head in the study — Leo also pointed out that the lead author had a financial relationship with Forest Laboratories, the maker of Lexapro, that was not disclosed in the study.

In a conversation with us [WSJ reporters], DeAngelis was none too happy to be questioned about the dust-up with Leo.

“This guy is a nobody and a nothing” she said of Leo. “He is trying to make a name for himself. Please call me about something important.” She added that Leo “should be spending time with his students instead of doing this.”

Leo says he received an angry call from JAMA executive deputy editor Phil Fontanarosa last week, shortly after Leo’s article was published on the BMJ Web site. “He said, ‘Who do you think you are,’ ” says Leo. “He then said, ‘You are banned from JAMA for life. You will be sorry. Your school will be sorry. Your students will be sorry.” Fontanarosa referred a call for comment to a JAMA spokeswoman, who said Leo’s retelling of the conversation was “inaccurate.” ”

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/03/13/jama-editor-calls-critic-a-nobody-and-a-nothing/

But it gets better. Instead of making a retraction, JAMA adopted a new policy, total censorship of critics:

“As a result of the flap, JAMA says it is adopting a new policy under which anyone asserting that study authors have failed to disclose conflicts of interest should keep the matter confidential until JAMA investigates, the WSJ reports. That move is already generating controversy.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/03/23/jama-sets-new-policy-in-wake-of-disclosure-flap/

A policy for readers of JAMA? You cant adopt a policy for readers, only authors! Oh, wait I just read the licensing agreement on the cover page that states that reader must not object in a public forum, or be banned for life. But what do I know, I didn’t go to Harvard Med, otherwise known as Corporate Med. Damn, I didn’t even go to Med school, am I less than a nobody and a nothing? What does that make me,a Pigg?

[equalizer]

[quote=Navydoc]I would argue strongly that going to a top school doesn’t make you a good doctor. … We went to the University of Pittsburgh, a good second tier school. Who do you want to operate on you? The studious honors student with no clinical judgment, or the average student who concentrated on being more well rounded, and can make better decisions? …

[/quote]

UofP is not second tier. Isn’t where the most elite doctor in the America, JAMA editor in chief Catherine DeAngelis earned her degree?

JAMA Editor Calls Critic a ‘Nobody and a Nothing’
[Mar 13 2009]

“Jonathan Leo, a professor of neuro-anatomy at tiny Lincoln Memorial University in Harrogate, Tenn., posted a letter on the Web site of the British Medical Journal this month criticizing a study that appeared in JAMA last spring. The study concerned the use of the anti-depressant Lexapro in stroke patients. In addition to identifying what he said was an important omission in the paper — that behavioral therapy worked just as well as the drug when compared head to head in the study — Leo also pointed out that the lead author had a financial relationship with Forest Laboratories, the maker of Lexapro, that was not disclosed in the study.

In a conversation with us [WSJ reporters], DeAngelis was none too happy to be questioned about the dust-up with Leo.

“This guy is a nobody and a nothing” she said of Leo. “He is trying to make a name for himself. Please call me about something important.” She added that Leo “should be spending time with his students instead of doing this.”

Leo says he received an angry call from JAMA executive deputy editor Phil Fontanarosa last week, shortly after Leo’s article was published on the BMJ Web site. “He said, ‘Who do you think you are,’ ” says Leo. “He then said, ‘You are banned from JAMA for life. You will be sorry. Your school will be sorry. Your students will be sorry.” Fontanarosa referred a call for comment to a JAMA spokeswoman, who said Leo’s retelling of the conversation was “inaccurate.” ”

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/03/13/jama-editor-calls-critic-a-nobody-and-a-nothing/

But it gets better. Instead of making a retraction, JAMA adopted a new policy, total censorship of critics:

“As a result of the flap, JAMA says it is adopting a new policy under which anyone asserting that study authors have failed to disclose conflicts of interest should keep the matter confidential until JAMA investigates, the WSJ reports. That move is already generating controversy.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/03/23/jama-sets-new-policy-in-wake-of-disclosure-flap/

A policy for readers of JAMA? You cant adopt a policy for readers, only authors! Oh, wait I just read the licensing agreement on the cover page that states that reader must not object in a public forum, or be banned for life. But what do I know, I didn’t go to Harvard Med, otherwise known as Corporate Med. Damn, I didn’t even go to Med school, am I less than a nobody and a nothing? What does that make me,a Pigg?

[Navydoc]

Pitt is undoubtedly an excellent school, and I’m quite poud to call it my Alma Mater, but it’s not in the same “elite” class like Hopkins, Harvard, Penn or Yale. Typically in the US News rankings we come in about 15-18 or so, not bad, but not quite top tier. And you can ususally find somebody from any medical school that has achieved greatness.

[Navydoc]

Pitt is undoubtedly an excellent school, and I’m quite poud to call it my Alma Mater, but it’s not in the same “elite” class like Hopkins, Harvard, Penn or Yale. Typically in the US News rankings we come in about 15-18 or so, not bad, but not quite top tier. And you can ususally find somebody from any medical school that has achieved greatness.

[Navydoc]

Pitt is undoubtedly an excellent school, and I’m quite poud to call it my Alma Mater, but it’s not in the same “elite” class like Hopkins, Harvard, Penn or Yale. Typically in the US News rankings we come in about 15-18 or so, not bad, but not quite top tier. And you can ususally find somebody from any medical school that has achieved greatness.

[Navydoc]

Pitt is undoubtedly an excellent school, and I’m quite poud to call it my Alma Mater, but it’s not in the same “elite” class like Hopkins, Harvard, Penn or Yale. Typically in the US News rankings we come in about 15-18 or so, not bad, but not quite top tier. And you can ususally find somebody from any medical school that has achieved greatness.

[Author]

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