OT: Talk me out of my anti-partisian views.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Brian: Having not voted Republican since 1996, I actually agree with some of what you have to say regarding the GOP, and watching them trying to absorb the Tea Party has been amusing, to say the least.

However, the Tea Party represents the first iteration of a potentially huge grass roots movement. Many pundits are pointing out the “looney” factor of the Tea Party without realizing that its generally the fringe elements that get engaged first, and thus drive the initial message. If you look closer, you’ll notice it contains a lot of folks closer to the mainstream, in terms of education, employment and polity (moderate/center-right).

This is the element that politicians should fear, in that this element is just now realizing its national reach and power (hence the backlash not just against Dems, but against incumbents in general). The smart money, including Karl Rove’s new “SuperPAC” American Crossroads, is getting involved, including devoting money and logistics to close Senate, House and gubernatorial races.

If you enjoy strategy, this is where it gets good. State politics is getting roiled by the terrible condition of state budgets nationwide, and this is where a well-financed, well-organized grass roots movement will be really effective. Republicans have struggled for years to counter the number of bodies that Democrats can throw at various elections and I think they’ve now found the way forward.

It may piss you off to no end, Brian, but guys like Rove are selling the idea of a return to 1950s America, and the message is being eagerly purchased by a huge bloc of pissed-off white people, who feel disenfranchised by the system and are further infuriated by what they perceive as a move to a European-style nanny state.

And this is all happening as Obama moves further left to re-energize his base and unemployment remains stubbornly high and the promised recovery hasn’t appeared. It doesn’t take Karnak to see that the Dems are headed for a disastrous mid-term, and the GOP, headed by guys like Rove and Armey, will take their new “model” to the faithful for future victories, including 2012.

[poorgradstudent]

I have far more respect for someone who votes all 3rd party candidates and on the ballot propositions rather than someone that doesn’t vote at all.

You’re right to some degree about high profile races; governor, senator and US representatives are all high power jobs where the candidates have generally been vetted and approved by those in power. However, once you start getting down the ballot for more local offices, there is a lot less scrutiny by both the national and even state party. Basically I wouldn’t rule someone out for commissioner or school board member just because they happen to favor one of the two major political parties; learn about the candidates and their positions, and figure out which one you support more.

[poorgradstudent]

I have far more respect for someone who votes all 3rd party candidates and on the ballot propositions rather than someone that doesn’t vote at all.

You’re right to some degree about high profile races; governor, senator and US representatives are all high power jobs where the candidates have generally been vetted and approved by those in power. However, once you start getting down the ballot for more local offices, there is a lot less scrutiny by both the national and even state party. Basically I wouldn’t rule someone out for commissioner or school board member just because they happen to favor one of the two major political parties; learn about the candidates and their positions, and figure out which one you support more.

[poorgradstudent]

I have far more respect for someone who votes all 3rd party candidates and on the ballot propositions rather than someone that doesn’t vote at all.

You’re right to some degree about high profile races; governor, senator and US representatives are all high power jobs where the candidates have generally been vetted and approved by those in power. However, once you start getting down the ballot for more local offices, there is a lot less scrutiny by both the national and even state party. Basically I wouldn’t rule someone out for commissioner or school board member just because they happen to favor one of the two major political parties; learn about the candidates and their positions, and figure out which one you support more.

[poorgradstudent]

I have far more respect for someone who votes all 3rd party candidates and on the ballot propositions rather than someone that doesn’t vote at all.

You’re right to some degree about high profile races; governor, senator and US representatives are all high power jobs where the candidates have generally been vetted and approved by those in power. However, once you start getting down the ballot for more local offices, there is a lot less scrutiny by both the national and even state party. Basically I wouldn’t rule someone out for commissioner or school board member just because they happen to favor one of the two major political parties; learn about the candidates and their positions, and figure out which one you support more.

[poorgradstudent]

I have far more respect for someone who votes all 3rd party candidates and on the ballot propositions rather than someone that doesn’t vote at all.

You’re right to some degree about high profile races; governor, senator and US representatives are all high power jobs where the candidates have generally been vetted and approved by those in power. However, once you start getting down the ballot for more local offices, there is a lot less scrutiny by both the national and even state party. Basically I wouldn’t rule someone out for commissioner or school board member just because they happen to favor one of the two major political parties; learn about the candidates and their positions, and figure out which one you support more.

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=briansd1]Partisanship is part of the human herding instinct, I believe. We want to pick a team we belong to.[/quote]

Yes, I agree. And what’s more people like to pick the team that is winning. Thus if a candidate gets out in front in the polls, they are hard to dislodge because voters seeing that other voters like this candidate are more likely to support the candidate.

[quote=briansd1]
If you love politics, and sports, I’m sure that you’re very partisan. And I suspect that you’re on the right.
[/quote]

Don’t follow your logic here. While it may be your experience that people who like politics and sports are likely to be partisan I think that’s a generalization at best, and a blatant stereotype at worst.

As to myself, I don’t particularly like sports. What I said is that politics is more entertaining than a football game, not that I like football games. Neither do I consider myself partisan. When I was in my 20’s I was a staunch democrat who always voted the party ticket. As I got more experienced in the world I realized the shortcomings of that strategy. Now in my 50’s I’ve voted for both Repubs and Dems over the years, and I’ve been registered libertarian more than any other party, but can’t say that I support any party in any way these days. Given that I’m an anti-war, pro-choice, atheist, who’s rooting for the legalization of pot, I think you missed your mark with suspecting I’m “on the right”. (Although I think anyone thinking I’m “on the left” would be equally wrong.)

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=briansd1]Partisanship is part of the human herding instinct, I believe. We want to pick a team we belong to.[/quote]

Yes, I agree. And what’s more people like to pick the team that is winning. Thus if a candidate gets out in front in the polls, they are hard to dislodge because voters seeing that other voters like this candidate are more likely to support the candidate.

[quote=briansd1]
If you love politics, and sports, I’m sure that you’re very partisan. And I suspect that you’re on the right.
[/quote]

Don’t follow your logic here. While it may be your experience that people who like politics and sports are likely to be partisan I think that’s a generalization at best, and a blatant stereotype at worst.

As to myself, I don’t particularly like sports. What I said is that politics is more entertaining than a football game, not that I like football games. Neither do I consider myself partisan. When I was in my 20’s I was a staunch democrat who always voted the party ticket. As I got more experienced in the world I realized the shortcomings of that strategy. Now in my 50’s I’ve voted for both Repubs and Dems over the years, and I’ve been registered libertarian more than any other party, but can’t say that I support any party in any way these days. Given that I’m an anti-war, pro-choice, atheist, who’s rooting for the legalization of pot, I think you missed your mark with suspecting I’m “on the right”. (Although I think anyone thinking I’m “on the left” would be equally wrong.)

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=briansd1]Partisanship is part of the human herding instinct, I believe. We want to pick a team we belong to.[/quote]

Yes, I agree. And what’s more people like to pick the team that is winning. Thus if a candidate gets out in front in the polls, they are hard to dislodge because voters seeing that other voters like this candidate are more likely to support the candidate.

[quote=briansd1]
If you love politics, and sports, I’m sure that you’re very partisan. And I suspect that you’re on the right.
[/quote]

Don’t follow your logic here. While it may be your experience that people who like politics and sports are likely to be partisan I think that’s a generalization at best, and a blatant stereotype at worst.

As to myself, I don’t particularly like sports. What I said is that politics is more entertaining than a football game, not that I like football games. Neither do I consider myself partisan. When I was in my 20’s I was a staunch democrat who always voted the party ticket. As I got more experienced in the world I realized the shortcomings of that strategy. Now in my 50’s I’ve voted for both Repubs and Dems over the years, and I’ve been registered libertarian more than any other party, but can’t say that I support any party in any way these days. Given that I’m an anti-war, pro-choice, atheist, who’s rooting for the legalization of pot, I think you missed your mark with suspecting I’m “on the right”. (Although I think anyone thinking I’m “on the left” would be equally wrong.)

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=briansd1]Partisanship is part of the human herding instinct, I believe. We want to pick a team we belong to.[/quote]

Yes, I agree. And what’s more people like to pick the team that is winning. Thus if a candidate gets out in front in the polls, they are hard to dislodge because voters seeing that other voters like this candidate are more likely to support the candidate.

[quote=briansd1]
If you love politics, and sports, I’m sure that you’re very partisan. And I suspect that you’re on the right.
[/quote]

Don’t follow your logic here. While it may be your experience that people who like politics and sports are likely to be partisan I think that’s a generalization at best, and a blatant stereotype at worst.

As to myself, I don’t particularly like sports. What I said is that politics is more entertaining than a football game, not that I like football games. Neither do I consider myself partisan. When I was in my 20’s I was a staunch democrat who always voted the party ticket. As I got more experienced in the world I realized the shortcomings of that strategy. Now in my 50’s I’ve voted for both Repubs and Dems over the years, and I’ve been registered libertarian more than any other party, but can’t say that I support any party in any way these days. Given that I’m an anti-war, pro-choice, atheist, who’s rooting for the legalization of pot, I think you missed your mark with suspecting I’m “on the right”. (Although I think anyone thinking I’m “on the left” would be equally wrong.)

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=briansd1]Partisanship is part of the human herding instinct, I believe. We want to pick a team we belong to.[/quote]

Yes, I agree. And what’s more people like to pick the team that is winning. Thus if a candidate gets out in front in the polls, they are hard to dislodge because voters seeing that other voters like this candidate are more likely to support the candidate.

[quote=briansd1]
If you love politics, and sports, I’m sure that you’re very partisan. And I suspect that you’re on the right.
[/quote]

Don’t follow your logic here. While it may be your experience that people who like politics and sports are likely to be partisan I think that’s a generalization at best, and a blatant stereotype at worst.

As to myself, I don’t particularly like sports. What I said is that politics is more entertaining than a football game, not that I like football games. Neither do I consider myself partisan. When I was in my 20’s I was a staunch democrat who always voted the party ticket. As I got more experienced in the world I realized the shortcomings of that strategy. Now in my 50’s I’ve voted for both Repubs and Dems over the years, and I’ve been registered libertarian more than any other party, but can’t say that I support any party in any way these days. Given that I’m an anti-war, pro-choice, atheist, who’s rooting for the legalization of pot, I think you missed your mark with suspecting I’m “on the right”. (Although I think anyone thinking I’m “on the left” would be equally wrong.)

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=aldante]
Dr. Paul has run as a third party candidate before and as such probably has a unique experience. …snip… He says that the most pragmatic approach should be to change the parties from within. [/quote]

Aldante,

I have always admired Dr Paul, if nothing else because of the honesty of his convictions. I often differ with him about things but at least he’s honestly trying to find solutions, and not just mouthing a bunch of meaningless platitudes like so many politicians.

But, I’m afraid that I’ve lost most of my belief that someone like myself can make any difference to the Dems or Repubs. Maybe if I was willing to commit lots of time to be actively involved with a party I could influence a few local issues slightly. But on the grander scale, I’m afraid I don’t see it. (Of course on the grand scale voting for third parties isn’t likely to change anything either.)

XBoxBoy

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=aldante]
Dr. Paul has run as a third party candidate before and as such probably has a unique experience. …snip… He says that the most pragmatic approach should be to change the parties from within. [/quote]

Aldante,

I have always admired Dr Paul, if nothing else because of the honesty of his convictions. I often differ with him about things but at least he’s honestly trying to find solutions, and not just mouthing a bunch of meaningless platitudes like so many politicians.

But, I’m afraid that I’ve lost most of my belief that someone like myself can make any difference to the Dems or Repubs. Maybe if I was willing to commit lots of time to be actively involved with a party I could influence a few local issues slightly. But on the grander scale, I’m afraid I don’t see it. (Of course on the grand scale voting for third parties isn’t likely to change anything either.)

XBoxBoy

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=aldante]
Dr. Paul has run as a third party candidate before and as such probably has a unique experience. …snip… He says that the most pragmatic approach should be to change the parties from within. [/quote]

Aldante,

I have always admired Dr Paul, if nothing else because of the honesty of his convictions. I often differ with him about things but at least he’s honestly trying to find solutions, and not just mouthing a bunch of meaningless platitudes like so many politicians.

But, I’m afraid that I’ve lost most of my belief that someone like myself can make any difference to the Dems or Repubs. Maybe if I was willing to commit lots of time to be actively involved with a party I could influence a few local issues slightly. But on the grander scale, I’m afraid I don’t see it. (Of course on the grand scale voting for third parties isn’t likely to change anything either.)

XBoxBoy

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=aldante]
Dr. Paul has run as a third party candidate before and as such probably has a unique experience. …snip… He says that the most pragmatic approach should be to change the parties from within. [/quote]

Aldante,

I have always admired Dr Paul, if nothing else because of the honesty of his convictions. I often differ with him about things but at least he’s honestly trying to find solutions, and not just mouthing a bunch of meaningless platitudes like so many politicians.

But, I’m afraid that I’ve lost most of my belief that someone like myself can make any difference to the Dems or Repubs. Maybe if I was willing to commit lots of time to be actively involved with a party I could influence a few local issues slightly. But on the grander scale, I’m afraid I don’t see it. (Of course on the grand scale voting for third parties isn’t likely to change anything either.)

XBoxBoy

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