OT: Talk me out of my anti-partisian views.

[SK in CV]

[quote=Hobie]As discussed later in the thread, a flat tax allows for only one lever and a much more visable one. This is the control I’m referring to and its positive effect. It would also save companies lots of money in the tax accounting and save taxpayers the cost of a large IRS. Sure there are some problems that need to be addressed, for example how to incentivise people and companies to donate to charity. It would also bring the underground cash economy to the surface and make for easy collection of the tax. Companies spend lots of unproductive time trying to outguess the government’s next tax move. A straight tax would reduce this considerably enabling them to make more accurate long term plans for growth, which I believe will make them more productive. As the the regressiveness of it, I like to look at the total amount of tax paid by a firm or individual. Not the percentage. Treats everyone fairly and those with more, spend more.

So we can agree the use of tax code in this manner is a tool of control?[/quote]

No. Wrong on just about every item. Nothing there we can agree on.

A flat tax changes multiple rates to a single rate. It does nothing to simplify calculation of taxable income. It does not allow for just one lever. (whatever that means.) It wouldn’t save companies a single dollar in tax accounting, unless you’re proposing a flat tax on gross income. And with all due respect, that wouldn’t be a bad idea, it would be a moronic one. Entire essential industries would cease to exist. No way a grocery store could survive. Or a gas station. Costco? They’re out of business.

I don’t see how it would bring a single dollar of underground economy above ground. Or make collection any easier. It wouldn’t help tax planning. If we change to a flat tax system (which isn’t going to happen anyway), we could just as easily move back to a progressive system. (And as an aside, if you think big companies have problems doing long term tax planning, you’re wrong. It’s not a problem for small companies either, they just don’t do it near as often.)

Flat tax is not a simple solution. It is a simple idea put forward by simpletons. People who have no understanding of the current tax code. It is not a serious idea. Unless a new tax system addresses the complexity of how businesses operate. Any that suggests a flat tax on gross business income doesn’t do that. It’s not even worth talking about.

[briansd1]

[quote=XBoxBoy]
The irony of this to me is that I love strategy, (to me politics is more entertaining than a football game!)
[/quote]

Partisanship is part of the human herding instinct, I believe. We want to pick a team we belong to.

If you love politics, and sports, I’m sure that you’re very partisan. And I suspect that you’re on the right.

People tend to claim independence because the message from the Democratic or Republican teams no longer appeal to them.

[quote=XBoxBoy]
and the Tea Party has presented an incredible opportunity to the Republicans. (Although they won’t be smart enough to recognize it and take advantage of it)
[/quote]

I’m pretty fiscally conservative and I could go along with running a tight ship. But small government doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t update regulations as needed (for example, better environmental, employment and safety standards).

But I’m socially progressive and I cannot countenance the social message of the Republicans.

In my opinion, the Republican party is turning into the party of the rich and the idiot (it’s stupid to be working-class and vote Republican at the same time).
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/06/politics/main6931948.shtml

The Tea Party might energize the Republican base in the short term. But in the long term it will destroy the Republican Party (eventually, the white working-class will realize that Republican policies give them nothing). Time will tell…. I’m willing to wait and watch.

[briansd1]

[quote=XBoxBoy]
The irony of this to me is that I love strategy, (to me politics is more entertaining than a football game!)
[/quote]

Partisanship is part of the human herding instinct, I believe. We want to pick a team we belong to.

If you love politics, and sports, I’m sure that you’re very partisan. And I suspect that you’re on the right.

People tend to claim independence because the message from the Democratic or Republican teams no longer appeal to them.

[quote=XBoxBoy]
and the Tea Party has presented an incredible opportunity to the Republicans. (Although they won’t be smart enough to recognize it and take advantage of it)
[/quote]

I’m pretty fiscally conservative and I could go along with running a tight ship. But small government doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t update regulations as needed (for example, better environmental, employment and safety standards).

But I’m socially progressive and I cannot countenance the social message of the Republicans.

In my opinion, the Republican party is turning into the party of the rich and the idiot (it’s stupid to be working-class and vote Republican at the same time).
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/06/politics/main6931948.shtml

The Tea Party might energize the Republican base in the short term. But in the long term it will destroy the Republican Party (eventually, the white working-class will realize that Republican policies give them nothing). Time will tell…. I’m willing to wait and watch.

[briansd1]

[quote=XBoxBoy]
The irony of this to me is that I love strategy, (to me politics is more entertaining than a football game!)
[/quote]

Partisanship is part of the human herding instinct, I believe. We want to pick a team we belong to.

If you love politics, and sports, I’m sure that you’re very partisan. And I suspect that you’re on the right.

People tend to claim independence because the message from the Democratic or Republican teams no longer appeal to them.

[quote=XBoxBoy]
and the Tea Party has presented an incredible opportunity to the Republicans. (Although they won’t be smart enough to recognize it and take advantage of it)
[/quote]

I’m pretty fiscally conservative and I could go along with running a tight ship. But small government doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t update regulations as needed (for example, better environmental, employment and safety standards).

But I’m socially progressive and I cannot countenance the social message of the Republicans.

In my opinion, the Republican party is turning into the party of the rich and the idiot (it’s stupid to be working-class and vote Republican at the same time).
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/06/politics/main6931948.shtml

The Tea Party might energize the Republican base in the short term. But in the long term it will destroy the Republican Party (eventually, the white working-class will realize that Republican policies give them nothing). Time will tell…. I’m willing to wait and watch.

[briansd1]

[quote=XBoxBoy]
The irony of this to me is that I love strategy, (to me politics is more entertaining than a football game!)
[/quote]

Partisanship is part of the human herding instinct, I believe. We want to pick a team we belong to.

If you love politics, and sports, I’m sure that you’re very partisan. And I suspect that you’re on the right.

People tend to claim independence because the message from the Democratic or Republican teams no longer appeal to them.

[quote=XBoxBoy]
and the Tea Party has presented an incredible opportunity to the Republicans. (Although they won’t be smart enough to recognize it and take advantage of it)
[/quote]

I’m pretty fiscally conservative and I could go along with running a tight ship. But small government doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t update regulations as needed (for example, better environmental, employment and safety standards).

But I’m socially progressive and I cannot countenance the social message of the Republicans.

In my opinion, the Republican party is turning into the party of the rich and the idiot (it’s stupid to be working-class and vote Republican at the same time).
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/06/politics/main6931948.shtml

The Tea Party might energize the Republican base in the short term. But in the long term it will destroy the Republican Party (eventually, the white working-class will realize that Republican policies give them nothing). Time will tell…. I’m willing to wait and watch.

[briansd1]

[quote=XBoxBoy]
The irony of this to me is that I love strategy, (to me politics is more entertaining than a football game!)
[/quote]

Partisanship is part of the human herding instinct, I believe. We want to pick a team we belong to.

If you love politics, and sports, I’m sure that you’re very partisan. And I suspect that you’re on the right.

People tend to claim independence because the message from the Democratic or Republican teams no longer appeal to them.

[quote=XBoxBoy]
and the Tea Party has presented an incredible opportunity to the Republicans. (Although they won’t be smart enough to recognize it and take advantage of it)
[/quote]

I’m pretty fiscally conservative and I could go along with running a tight ship. But small government doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t update regulations as needed (for example, better environmental, employment and safety standards).

But I’m socially progressive and I cannot countenance the social message of the Republicans.

In my opinion, the Republican party is turning into the party of the rich and the idiot (it’s stupid to be working-class and vote Republican at the same time).
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/06/politics/main6931948.shtml

The Tea Party might energize the Republican base in the short term. But in the long term it will destroy the Republican Party (eventually, the white working-class will realize that Republican policies give them nothing). Time will tell…. I’m willing to wait and watch.

[aldante]

Xboy,
I struggled with this for a long time. Over a two years. But then I went to Las Vegas last year to a Campaign for Liberty event and listened closely to Ron Paul.
Dr. Paul has run as a third party candidate before and as such probably has a unique experience. If you know or follow the man you know that he is a deep thinker. He will be the first to say that there is no discernable difference between the two parties in general – with one off exceptions. He guidance was twofold.
Most Americans want a third party becasue they want immediate results. Getting a third party on enough ballots is extrodianrily difficult. And when people see that difficulty the inertia of that party will be lost quickly (remember Ross Perot?).
He says that the most pragmatic approach should be to change the parties from within. What that means is no immediate results. It means people – individuals – getting involved in their district county politics and not just sending checks. Volunteering for the local party leadership positions and working. Being an indian and not a cheif. Knocking on doors and making your friends aware of the issues. That – if I am so bold as to summrize Dr. Paul’s views; is the only way to battle the lobbies that have our current politicians in their back pocket.

That how deep in the hole this country is.

[aldante]

Xboy,
I struggled with this for a long time. Over a two years. But then I went to Las Vegas last year to a Campaign for Liberty event and listened closely to Ron Paul.
Dr. Paul has run as a third party candidate before and as such probably has a unique experience. If you know or follow the man you know that he is a deep thinker. He will be the first to say that there is no discernable difference between the two parties in general – with one off exceptions. He guidance was twofold.
Most Americans want a third party becasue they want immediate results. Getting a third party on enough ballots is extrodianrily difficult. And when people see that difficulty the inertia of that party will be lost quickly (remember Ross Perot?).
He says that the most pragmatic approach should be to change the parties from within. What that means is no immediate results. It means people – individuals – getting involved in their district county politics and not just sending checks. Volunteering for the local party leadership positions and working. Being an indian and not a cheif. Knocking on doors and making your friends aware of the issues. That – if I am so bold as to summrize Dr. Paul’s views; is the only way to battle the lobbies that have our current politicians in their back pocket.

That how deep in the hole this country is.

[aldante]

Xboy,
I struggled with this for a long time. Over a two years. But then I went to Las Vegas last year to a Campaign for Liberty event and listened closely to Ron Paul.
Dr. Paul has run as a third party candidate before and as such probably has a unique experience. If you know or follow the man you know that he is a deep thinker. He will be the first to say that there is no discernable difference between the two parties in general – with one off exceptions. He guidance was twofold.
Most Americans want a third party becasue they want immediate results. Getting a third party on enough ballots is extrodianrily difficult. And when people see that difficulty the inertia of that party will be lost quickly (remember Ross Perot?).
He says that the most pragmatic approach should be to change the parties from within. What that means is no immediate results. It means people – individuals – getting involved in their district county politics and not just sending checks. Volunteering for the local party leadership positions and working. Being an indian and not a cheif. Knocking on doors and making your friends aware of the issues. That – if I am so bold as to summrize Dr. Paul’s views; is the only way to battle the lobbies that have our current politicians in their back pocket.

That how deep in the hole this country is.

[aldante]

Xboy,
I struggled with this for a long time. Over a two years. But then I went to Las Vegas last year to a Campaign for Liberty event and listened closely to Ron Paul.
Dr. Paul has run as a third party candidate before and as such probably has a unique experience. If you know or follow the man you know that he is a deep thinker. He will be the first to say that there is no discernable difference between the two parties in general – with one off exceptions. He guidance was twofold.
Most Americans want a third party becasue they want immediate results. Getting a third party on enough ballots is extrodianrily difficult. And when people see that difficulty the inertia of that party will be lost quickly (remember Ross Perot?).
He says that the most pragmatic approach should be to change the parties from within. What that means is no immediate results. It means people – individuals – getting involved in their district county politics and not just sending checks. Volunteering for the local party leadership positions and working. Being an indian and not a cheif. Knocking on doors and making your friends aware of the issues. That – if I am so bold as to summrize Dr. Paul’s views; is the only way to battle the lobbies that have our current politicians in their back pocket.

That how deep in the hole this country is.

[aldante]

Xboy,
I struggled with this for a long time. Over a two years. But then I went to Las Vegas last year to a Campaign for Liberty event and listened closely to Ron Paul.
Dr. Paul has run as a third party candidate before and as such probably has a unique experience. If you know or follow the man you know that he is a deep thinker. He will be the first to say that there is no discernable difference between the two parties in general – with one off exceptions. He guidance was twofold.
Most Americans want a third party becasue they want immediate results. Getting a third party on enough ballots is extrodianrily difficult. And when people see that difficulty the inertia of that party will be lost quickly (remember Ross Perot?).
He says that the most pragmatic approach should be to change the parties from within. What that means is no immediate results. It means people – individuals – getting involved in their district county politics and not just sending checks. Volunteering for the local party leadership positions and working. Being an indian and not a cheif. Knocking on doors and making your friends aware of the issues. That – if I am so bold as to summrize Dr. Paul’s views; is the only way to battle the lobbies that have our current politicians in their back pocket.

That how deep in the hole this country is.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Brian: Having not voted Republican since 1996, I actually agree with some of what you have to say regarding the GOP, and watching them trying to absorb the Tea Party has been amusing, to say the least.

However, the Tea Party represents the first iteration of a potentially huge grass roots movement. Many pundits are pointing out the “looney” factor of the Tea Party without realizing that its generally the fringe elements that get engaged first, and thus drive the initial message. If you look closer, you’ll notice it contains a lot of folks closer to the mainstream, in terms of education, employment and polity (moderate/center-right).

This is the element that politicians should fear, in that this element is just now realizing its national reach and power (hence the backlash not just against Dems, but against incumbents in general). The smart money, including Karl Rove’s new “SuperPAC” American Crossroads, is getting involved, including devoting money and logistics to close Senate, House and gubernatorial races.

If you enjoy strategy, this is where it gets good. State politics is getting roiled by the terrible condition of state budgets nationwide, and this is where a well-financed, well-organized grass roots movement will be really effective. Republicans have struggled for years to counter the number of bodies that Democrats can throw at various elections and I think they’ve now found the way forward.

It may piss you off to no end, Brian, but guys like Rove are selling the idea of a return to 1950s America, and the message is being eagerly purchased by a huge bloc of pissed-off white people, who feel disenfranchised by the system and are further infuriated by what they perceive as a move to a European-style nanny state.

And this is all happening as Obama moves further left to re-energize his base and unemployment remains stubbornly high and the promised recovery hasn’t appeared. It doesn’t take Karnak to see that the Dems are headed for a disastrous mid-term, and the GOP, headed by guys like Rove and Armey, will take their new “model” to the faithful for future victories, including 2012.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Brian: Having not voted Republican since 1996, I actually agree with some of what you have to say regarding the GOP, and watching them trying to absorb the Tea Party has been amusing, to say the least.

However, the Tea Party represents the first iteration of a potentially huge grass roots movement. Many pundits are pointing out the “looney” factor of the Tea Party without realizing that its generally the fringe elements that get engaged first, and thus drive the initial message. If you look closer, you’ll notice it contains a lot of folks closer to the mainstream, in terms of education, employment and polity (moderate/center-right).

This is the element that politicians should fear, in that this element is just now realizing its national reach and power (hence the backlash not just against Dems, but against incumbents in general). The smart money, including Karl Rove’s new “SuperPAC” American Crossroads, is getting involved, including devoting money and logistics to close Senate, House and gubernatorial races.

If you enjoy strategy, this is where it gets good. State politics is getting roiled by the terrible condition of state budgets nationwide, and this is where a well-financed, well-organized grass roots movement will be really effective. Republicans have struggled for years to counter the number of bodies that Democrats can throw at various elections and I think they’ve now found the way forward.

It may piss you off to no end, Brian, but guys like Rove are selling the idea of a return to 1950s America, and the message is being eagerly purchased by a huge bloc of pissed-off white people, who feel disenfranchised by the system and are further infuriated by what they perceive as a move to a European-style nanny state.

And this is all happening as Obama moves further left to re-energize his base and unemployment remains stubbornly high and the promised recovery hasn’t appeared. It doesn’t take Karnak to see that the Dems are headed for a disastrous mid-term, and the GOP, headed by guys like Rove and Armey, will take their new “model” to the faithful for future victories, including 2012.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Brian: Having not voted Republican since 1996, I actually agree with some of what you have to say regarding the GOP, and watching them trying to absorb the Tea Party has been amusing, to say the least.

However, the Tea Party represents the first iteration of a potentially huge grass roots movement. Many pundits are pointing out the “looney” factor of the Tea Party without realizing that its generally the fringe elements that get engaged first, and thus drive the initial message. If you look closer, you’ll notice it contains a lot of folks closer to the mainstream, in terms of education, employment and polity (moderate/center-right).

This is the element that politicians should fear, in that this element is just now realizing its national reach and power (hence the backlash not just against Dems, but against incumbents in general). The smart money, including Karl Rove’s new “SuperPAC” American Crossroads, is getting involved, including devoting money and logistics to close Senate, House and gubernatorial races.

If you enjoy strategy, this is where it gets good. State politics is getting roiled by the terrible condition of state budgets nationwide, and this is where a well-financed, well-organized grass roots movement will be really effective. Republicans have struggled for years to counter the number of bodies that Democrats can throw at various elections and I think they’ve now found the way forward.

It may piss you off to no end, Brian, but guys like Rove are selling the idea of a return to 1950s America, and the message is being eagerly purchased by a huge bloc of pissed-off white people, who feel disenfranchised by the system and are further infuriated by what they perceive as a move to a European-style nanny state.

And this is all happening as Obama moves further left to re-energize his base and unemployment remains stubbornly high and the promised recovery hasn’t appeared. It doesn’t take Karnak to see that the Dems are headed for a disastrous mid-term, and the GOP, headed by guys like Rove and Armey, will take their new “model” to the faithful for future victories, including 2012.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Brian: Having not voted Republican since 1996, I actually agree with some of what you have to say regarding the GOP, and watching them trying to absorb the Tea Party has been amusing, to say the least.

However, the Tea Party represents the first iteration of a potentially huge grass roots movement. Many pundits are pointing out the “looney” factor of the Tea Party without realizing that its generally the fringe elements that get engaged first, and thus drive the initial message. If you look closer, you’ll notice it contains a lot of folks closer to the mainstream, in terms of education, employment and polity (moderate/center-right).

This is the element that politicians should fear, in that this element is just now realizing its national reach and power (hence the backlash not just against Dems, but against incumbents in general). The smart money, including Karl Rove’s new “SuperPAC” American Crossroads, is getting involved, including devoting money and logistics to close Senate, House and gubernatorial races.

If you enjoy strategy, this is where it gets good. State politics is getting roiled by the terrible condition of state budgets nationwide, and this is where a well-financed, well-organized grass roots movement will be really effective. Republicans have struggled for years to counter the number of bodies that Democrats can throw at various elections and I think they’ve now found the way forward.

It may piss you off to no end, Brian, but guys like Rove are selling the idea of a return to 1950s America, and the message is being eagerly purchased by a huge bloc of pissed-off white people, who feel disenfranchised by the system and are further infuriated by what they perceive as a move to a European-style nanny state.

And this is all happening as Obama moves further left to re-energize his base and unemployment remains stubbornly high and the promised recovery hasn’t appeared. It doesn’t take Karnak to see that the Dems are headed for a disastrous mid-term, and the GOP, headed by guys like Rove and Armey, will take their new “model” to the faithful for future victories, including 2012.

[Author]

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