OT- More Government Control

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=Borat]Dan: Couple of other things: (1) Militarily, we did win Vietnam. Inarguable fact in that US forces never lost a single major battle in the entire war. Vietnam was lost on the home front, not on the battle field.

I always liked the story of the Vietnamese and American generals meeting at the close of the Vietnam war. The American general said, “You know, you never won a battle against us.” To this, the Vietnamese general replied — “That is true, but it is also irrelevant.”[/quote]

Borat: No argument from me on that one. However, my point was that the North’s victory was largely due to the American public’s attitude towards the war and not attributable to force of arms in the field.

Think about this for a second: At the close of the Tet Offensive in 1968, the Viet Cong is virtually destroyed and the North Vietnamese Army is incapable of offensive operations in the South. It is a clear cut US victory and, in conjunction with US air operations, which were wearing heavily on the North, the war is now capable of being won. However, the US news/media, led by Walter Cronkite, solemnly announces that the war is a stalemate and there is no end in sight. The public’s perception, largely driven by what they were hearing on the news and reading in articles by journalists like Halberstam, solidifies against the war.

[afx114]

Allan,

I’m not a Vietnam historian, but if the war was won as you claim, what were the motivations of Cronkite and the media in general in lying to the American public?

[afx114]

Allan,

I’m not a Vietnam historian, but if the war was won as you claim, what were the motivations of Cronkite and the media in general in lying to the American public?

[afx114]

Allan,

I’m not a Vietnam historian, but if the war was won as you claim, what were the motivations of Cronkite and the media in general in lying to the American public?

[afx114]

Allan,

I’m not a Vietnam historian, but if the war was won as you claim, what were the motivations of Cronkite and the media in general in lying to the American public?

[afx114]

Allan,

I’m not a Vietnam historian, but if the war was won as you claim, what were the motivations of Cronkite and the media in general in lying to the American public?

[Zeitgeist]

Brian, you got it all wrong. No gold star for you. I do not hate Obama. I did not support the Patriot Act because it represents a serious incursion into civil liberties and I think Bush was a mediocre President. There is a big difference between active extermination and not providing care, but the outcome is the same. Each is equally inhumane and the insurance companies do need reform. This reform should be bi-partisan, openly discussed and the people who vote should read what they are voting on.

I prefer this solution: the Independence at Home Act, H.R. 2560. The bill will create a 3-year pilot program to bring primary care medical services to Medicare beneficiaries with multiple chronic conditions in their homes. I believe the police need warrants to invade property unless they are in hot pursuit and I do not believe Obama has changed that part of the Constitution. I do not like paying taxes and I am against tax hikes. Any tax hikes now will further depress the economy as can be seen in the areas where the local city increased sales tax, most lost revenue because people go somewhere else to shop. Go back and read about the Hoover tax hikes during the depression. We have a road map of how to get out of this recession. All we do is have to look at history. Finally, I do not think we can win in Afghanistan. Time to wrap up Bush’s war. I wonder if all the returning people will need jobs?

[Zeitgeist]

Brian, you got it all wrong. No gold star for you. I do not hate Obama. I did not support the Patriot Act because it represents a serious incursion into civil liberties and I think Bush was a mediocre President. There is a big difference between active extermination and not providing care, but the outcome is the same. Each is equally inhumane and the insurance companies do need reform. This reform should be bi-partisan, openly discussed and the people who vote should read what they are voting on.

I prefer this solution: the Independence at Home Act, H.R. 2560. The bill will create a 3-year pilot program to bring primary care medical services to Medicare beneficiaries with multiple chronic conditions in their homes. I believe the police need warrants to invade property unless they are in hot pursuit and I do not believe Obama has changed that part of the Constitution. I do not like paying taxes and I am against tax hikes. Any tax hikes now will further depress the economy as can be seen in the areas where the local city increased sales tax, most lost revenue because people go somewhere else to shop. Go back and read about the Hoover tax hikes during the depression. We have a road map of how to get out of this recession. All we do is have to look at history. Finally, I do not think we can win in Afghanistan. Time to wrap up Bush’s war. I wonder if all the returning people will need jobs?

[Zeitgeist]

Brian, you got it all wrong. No gold star for you. I do not hate Obama. I did not support the Patriot Act because it represents a serious incursion into civil liberties and I think Bush was a mediocre President. There is a big difference between active extermination and not providing care, but the outcome is the same. Each is equally inhumane and the insurance companies do need reform. This reform should be bi-partisan, openly discussed and the people who vote should read what they are voting on.

I prefer this solution: the Independence at Home Act, H.R. 2560. The bill will create a 3-year pilot program to bring primary care medical services to Medicare beneficiaries with multiple chronic conditions in their homes. I believe the police need warrants to invade property unless they are in hot pursuit and I do not believe Obama has changed that part of the Constitution. I do not like paying taxes and I am against tax hikes. Any tax hikes now will further depress the economy as can be seen in the areas where the local city increased sales tax, most lost revenue because people go somewhere else to shop. Go back and read about the Hoover tax hikes during the depression. We have a road map of how to get out of this recession. All we do is have to look at history. Finally, I do not think we can win in Afghanistan. Time to wrap up Bush’s war. I wonder if all the returning people will need jobs?

[Zeitgeist]

Brian, you got it all wrong. No gold star for you. I do not hate Obama. I did not support the Patriot Act because it represents a serious incursion into civil liberties and I think Bush was a mediocre President. There is a big difference between active extermination and not providing care, but the outcome is the same. Each is equally inhumane and the insurance companies do need reform. This reform should be bi-partisan, openly discussed and the people who vote should read what they are voting on.

I prefer this solution: the Independence at Home Act, H.R. 2560. The bill will create a 3-year pilot program to bring primary care medical services to Medicare beneficiaries with multiple chronic conditions in their homes. I believe the police need warrants to invade property unless they are in hot pursuit and I do not believe Obama has changed that part of the Constitution. I do not like paying taxes and I am against tax hikes. Any tax hikes now will further depress the economy as can be seen in the areas where the local city increased sales tax, most lost revenue because people go somewhere else to shop. Go back and read about the Hoover tax hikes during the depression. We have a road map of how to get out of this recession. All we do is have to look at history. Finally, I do not think we can win in Afghanistan. Time to wrap up Bush’s war. I wonder if all the returning people will need jobs?

[Zeitgeist]

Brian, you got it all wrong. No gold star for you. I do not hate Obama. I did not support the Patriot Act because it represents a serious incursion into civil liberties and I think Bush was a mediocre President. There is a big difference between active extermination and not providing care, but the outcome is the same. Each is equally inhumane and the insurance companies do need reform. This reform should be bi-partisan, openly discussed and the people who vote should read what they are voting on.

I prefer this solution: the Independence at Home Act, H.R. 2560. The bill will create a 3-year pilot program to bring primary care medical services to Medicare beneficiaries with multiple chronic conditions in their homes. I believe the police need warrants to invade property unless they are in hot pursuit and I do not believe Obama has changed that part of the Constitution. I do not like paying taxes and I am against tax hikes. Any tax hikes now will further depress the economy as can be seen in the areas where the local city increased sales tax, most lost revenue because people go somewhere else to shop. Go back and read about the Hoover tax hikes during the depression. We have a road map of how to get out of this recession. All we do is have to look at history. Finally, I do not think we can win in Afghanistan. Time to wrap up Bush’s war. I wonder if all the returning people will need jobs?

[Coronita]

[quote=briansd1]Nationalism for nationalism’s sake?

To me, Zeitgeist sounds like the above. She’s a just a partisan shill who has no philosophy of her own.

She just hates Obama, just because.

She supports the Patriot Act because it sounds patriotic but she claims to be for civil liberties.

She thinks it’s perfectly OK for the police to invade someone’s property, demanding ID, and arresting the homeowner, just because a hesitant neighbor made a phone call. All for safety’s sake. (Sounds like Soviet style security to me).

I can see Allan from Fallbrook’s points of view and I agree with him more than not.

But Zeitgeist? She’s just a nutty nationalist who has turned-off her brain. It takes people turning-off their brains for Nazism to rise.[/quote]

I don’t know brian. I wasn’t a big fan of bush either. But the thing that I don’t like about this administration…from my perspective, it “feels” like more and more socialism now….

Can’t achieve your goals, no problem…We’ll regulate that.
Didn’t save your hard earned money…no problem We’ll regulate those that did.
Got burned by over paying for homes. don’t worry, we’ll regulate that too to make you whole.
Can’t keep your car company afloat…We’ll regulate that too.
Pissed that your neighbor makes more than you, we’ll regulate that too.
Don’t feel like spending, he’ll we’ll throw you a few bones too…courtesy of the other tax payers.

[Coronita]

[quote=briansd1]Nationalism for nationalism’s sake?

To me, Zeitgeist sounds like the above. She’s a just a partisan shill who has no philosophy of her own.

She just hates Obama, just because.

She supports the Patriot Act because it sounds patriotic but she claims to be for civil liberties.

She thinks it’s perfectly OK for the police to invade someone’s property, demanding ID, and arresting the homeowner, just because a hesitant neighbor made a phone call. All for safety’s sake. (Sounds like Soviet style security to me).

I can see Allan from Fallbrook’s points of view and I agree with him more than not.

But Zeitgeist? She’s just a nutty nationalist who has turned-off her brain. It takes people turning-off their brains for Nazism to rise.[/quote]

I don’t know brian. I wasn’t a big fan of bush either. But the thing that I don’t like about this administration…from my perspective, it “feels” like more and more socialism now….

Can’t achieve your goals, no problem…We’ll regulate that.
Didn’t save your hard earned money…no problem We’ll regulate those that did.
Got burned by over paying for homes. don’t worry, we’ll regulate that too to make you whole.
Can’t keep your car company afloat…We’ll regulate that too.
Pissed that your neighbor makes more than you, we’ll regulate that too.
Don’t feel like spending, he’ll we’ll throw you a few bones too…courtesy of the other tax payers.

[Coronita]

[quote=briansd1]Nationalism for nationalism’s sake?

To me, Zeitgeist sounds like the above. She’s a just a partisan shill who has no philosophy of her own.

She just hates Obama, just because.

She supports the Patriot Act because it sounds patriotic but she claims to be for civil liberties.

She thinks it’s perfectly OK for the police to invade someone’s property, demanding ID, and arresting the homeowner, just because a hesitant neighbor made a phone call. All for safety’s sake. (Sounds like Soviet style security to me).

I can see Allan from Fallbrook’s points of view and I agree with him more than not.

But Zeitgeist? She’s just a nutty nationalist who has turned-off her brain. It takes people turning-off their brains for Nazism to rise.[/quote]

I don’t know brian. I wasn’t a big fan of bush either. But the thing that I don’t like about this administration…from my perspective, it “feels” like more and more socialism now….

Can’t achieve your goals, no problem…We’ll regulate that.
Didn’t save your hard earned money…no problem We’ll regulate those that did.
Got burned by over paying for homes. don’t worry, we’ll regulate that too to make you whole.
Can’t keep your car company afloat…We’ll regulate that too.
Pissed that your neighbor makes more than you, we’ll regulate that too.
Don’t feel like spending, he’ll we’ll throw you a few bones too…courtesy of the other tax payers.

[Coronita]

[quote=briansd1]Nationalism for nationalism’s sake?

To me, Zeitgeist sounds like the above. She’s a just a partisan shill who has no philosophy of her own.

She just hates Obama, just because.

She supports the Patriot Act because it sounds patriotic but she claims to be for civil liberties.

She thinks it’s perfectly OK for the police to invade someone’s property, demanding ID, and arresting the homeowner, just because a hesitant neighbor made a phone call. All for safety’s sake. (Sounds like Soviet style security to me).

I can see Allan from Fallbrook’s points of view and I agree with him more than not.

But Zeitgeist? She’s just a nutty nationalist who has turned-off her brain. It takes people turning-off their brains for Nazism to rise.[/quote]

I don’t know brian. I wasn’t a big fan of bush either. But the thing that I don’t like about this administration…from my perspective, it “feels” like more and more socialism now….

Can’t achieve your goals, no problem…We’ll regulate that.
Didn’t save your hard earned money…no problem We’ll regulate those that did.
Got burned by over paying for homes. don’t worry, we’ll regulate that too to make you whole.
Can’t keep your car company afloat…We’ll regulate that too.
Pissed that your neighbor makes more than you, we’ll regulate that too.
Don’t feel like spending, he’ll we’ll throw you a few bones too…courtesy of the other tax payers.

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