OT – Joe the Plumber

[felix]

[quote=TheBreeze]felix,

I can sum up your whole post thusly: You want to keep more of what you earn.

So do I. That is why I would prefer that super-rich people like you pay more taxes so that I can pay less.

[/quote]

I am not super rich and what you you advocate is what BO is counting on for votes, economic class warfare.

Where you are misguided is not only in your apparent choice of candidates. It is also in the belief that hard working middle class folks have more in common with those with their hands out for freebies than with those who work hard to get ahead or even farther ahead.

We are all paying for those who don’t take personal responsibility for their lives. Anybody paying taxes is paying for this folly. It just so happens that the wealthy pay a disproportionate share of taxes. And BO wants that to even become more pronounced. Apparently BO doesn’t think rewarding achievers for their hard work is a good thing. Apparently our high achievers are bogie men to him.

Instead, BO wants to disincentive achievement and continue the cycle of government dependence that holds back a great deal of our citizens. He does this because it gets him votes. He knows the more folks who are dependent upon his good graces, the more votes he will get from these folks. He really doesn’t want them out of those circumstances. He prospers from them being in that circumstances.

This isn’t what is best for the poor. It is what is best for BO and his fellow socialist Dems. The cycle of poverty that plagues so many won’t change by getting handouts. It will only change through personal responsibility and hard work.

I don’t mind paying my taxes. I mind throwing them down the drain.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=felix]
We are all paying for those who don’t take personal responsibility for their lives.
[/quote]

I disagree. The main expenses are the massive bailout of the super-rich and the Iraq War.

Unemployment and welfare makes up at most 11% of the national budget:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fy2008spendingbycategory.png

The FY2008 budget is $2.9 trillion. That means that at most $319 billion per year is going to those folks who “don’t take personal responsibility for their lives”.

$319 billion pales in comparison to the $11 trillion bailout of the super-rich. $11 trillion is 34 years of welfare spending.

Then there is the boondoggle of the Iraq War which could end up costing $3 trillion:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0310/p16s01-wmgn.html

The Iraq War is costing us 10x as much as a year of welfare. Adding the $11 trillion bailout of the super-rich and the Iraq War brings the total to 44 years of welfare spending.

So what we are really paying for is a misguided war and a massive bailout for the super-rich. Welfare for poor people is teeny-tiny in comparison.

This is what annoys me about faux conservatives/capitalists like you. You constantly bemoan the cost of welfare when what is really dragging our economy down are the crooks on Wall Street and the Iraq War.

If you are truly concerned about welfare spending, then you should be 44 times as concerned about the bailout and the Iraq War. And yet, faux conservatives/capitalists like you never bring those expenses up. I find that to be incredibly hypocritical and will vote to raise your taxes at every chance I get.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=felix]
We are all paying for those who don’t take personal responsibility for their lives.
[/quote]

I disagree. The main expenses are the massive bailout of the super-rich and the Iraq War.

Unemployment and welfare makes up at most 11% of the national budget:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fy2008spendingbycategory.png

The FY2008 budget is $2.9 trillion. That means that at most $319 billion per year is going to those folks who “don’t take personal responsibility for their lives”.

$319 billion pales in comparison to the $11 trillion bailout of the super-rich. $11 trillion is 34 years of welfare spending.

Then there is the boondoggle of the Iraq War which could end up costing $3 trillion:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0310/p16s01-wmgn.html

The Iraq War is costing us 10x as much as a year of welfare. Adding the $11 trillion bailout of the super-rich and the Iraq War brings the total to 44 years of welfare spending.

So what we are really paying for is a misguided war and a massive bailout for the super-rich. Welfare for poor people is teeny-tiny in comparison.

This is what annoys me about faux conservatives/capitalists like you. You constantly bemoan the cost of welfare when what is really dragging our economy down are the crooks on Wall Street and the Iraq War.

If you are truly concerned about welfare spending, then you should be 44 times as concerned about the bailout and the Iraq War. And yet, faux conservatives/capitalists like you never bring those expenses up. I find that to be incredibly hypocritical and will vote to raise your taxes at every chance I get.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=felix]
We are all paying for those who don’t take personal responsibility for their lives.
[/quote]

I disagree. The main expenses are the massive bailout of the super-rich and the Iraq War.

Unemployment and welfare makes up at most 11% of the national budget:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fy2008spendingbycategory.png

The FY2008 budget is $2.9 trillion. That means that at most $319 billion per year is going to those folks who “don’t take personal responsibility for their lives”.

$319 billion pales in comparison to the $11 trillion bailout of the super-rich. $11 trillion is 34 years of welfare spending.

Then there is the boondoggle of the Iraq War which could end up costing $3 trillion:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0310/p16s01-wmgn.html

The Iraq War is costing us 10x as much as a year of welfare. Adding the $11 trillion bailout of the super-rich and the Iraq War brings the total to 44 years of welfare spending.

So what we are really paying for is a misguided war and a massive bailout for the super-rich. Welfare for poor people is teeny-tiny in comparison.

This is what annoys me about faux conservatives/capitalists like you. You constantly bemoan the cost of welfare when what is really dragging our economy down are the crooks on Wall Street and the Iraq War.

If you are truly concerned about welfare spending, then you should be 44 times as concerned about the bailout and the Iraq War. And yet, faux conservatives/capitalists like you never bring those expenses up. I find that to be incredibly hypocritical and will vote to raise your taxes at every chance I get.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=felix]
We are all paying for those who don’t take personal responsibility for their lives.
[/quote]

I disagree. The main expenses are the massive bailout of the super-rich and the Iraq War.

Unemployment and welfare makes up at most 11% of the national budget:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fy2008spendingbycategory.png

The FY2008 budget is $2.9 trillion. That means that at most $319 billion per year is going to those folks who “don’t take personal responsibility for their lives”.

$319 billion pales in comparison to the $11 trillion bailout of the super-rich. $11 trillion is 34 years of welfare spending.

Then there is the boondoggle of the Iraq War which could end up costing $3 trillion:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0310/p16s01-wmgn.html

The Iraq War is costing us 10x as much as a year of welfare. Adding the $11 trillion bailout of the super-rich and the Iraq War brings the total to 44 years of welfare spending.

So what we are really paying for is a misguided war and a massive bailout for the super-rich. Welfare for poor people is teeny-tiny in comparison.

This is what annoys me about faux conservatives/capitalists like you. You constantly bemoan the cost of welfare when what is really dragging our economy down are the crooks on Wall Street and the Iraq War.

If you are truly concerned about welfare spending, then you should be 44 times as concerned about the bailout and the Iraq War. And yet, faux conservatives/capitalists like you never bring those expenses up. I find that to be incredibly hypocritical and will vote to raise your taxes at every chance I get.

[TheBreeze]

[quote=felix]
We are all paying for those who don’t take personal responsibility for their lives.
[/quote]

I disagree. The main expenses are the massive bailout of the super-rich and the Iraq War.

Unemployment and welfare makes up at most 11% of the national budget:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fy2008spendingbycategory.png

The FY2008 budget is $2.9 trillion. That means that at most $319 billion per year is going to those folks who “don’t take personal responsibility for their lives”.

$319 billion pales in comparison to the $11 trillion bailout of the super-rich. $11 trillion is 34 years of welfare spending.

Then there is the boondoggle of the Iraq War which could end up costing $3 trillion:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0310/p16s01-wmgn.html

The Iraq War is costing us 10x as much as a year of welfare. Adding the $11 trillion bailout of the super-rich and the Iraq War brings the total to 44 years of welfare spending.

So what we are really paying for is a misguided war and a massive bailout for the super-rich. Welfare for poor people is teeny-tiny in comparison.

This is what annoys me about faux conservatives/capitalists like you. You constantly bemoan the cost of welfare when what is really dragging our economy down are the crooks on Wall Street and the Iraq War.

If you are truly concerned about welfare spending, then you should be 44 times as concerned about the bailout and the Iraq War. And yet, faux conservatives/capitalists like you never bring those expenses up. I find that to be incredibly hypocritical and will vote to raise your taxes at every chance I get.

[cr]

I can’t until this election is over.

Let’s face it. McCain and Obama are one and the same.

The bigger problem is the media, congress, and everyone in politics failing to give any third party an equal opprtunity to participate in the election.

We all know that no matter who wins, none of what was promised will happen, except probably higher taxes for everyone to pay for this giant mess we are in.

[cr]

I can’t until this election is over.

Let’s face it. McCain and Obama are one and the same.

The bigger problem is the media, congress, and everyone in politics failing to give any third party an equal opprtunity to participate in the election.

We all know that no matter who wins, none of what was promised will happen, except probably higher taxes for everyone to pay for this giant mess we are in.

[cr]

I can’t until this election is over.

Let’s face it. McCain and Obama are one and the same.

The bigger problem is the media, congress, and everyone in politics failing to give any third party an equal opprtunity to participate in the election.

We all know that no matter who wins, none of what was promised will happen, except probably higher taxes for everyone to pay for this giant mess we are in.

[cr]

I can’t until this election is over.

Let’s face it. McCain and Obama are one and the same.

The bigger problem is the media, congress, and everyone in politics failing to give any third party an equal opprtunity to participate in the election.

We all know that no matter who wins, none of what was promised will happen, except probably higher taxes for everyone to pay for this giant mess we are in.

[cr]

I can’t until this election is over.

Let’s face it. McCain and Obama are one and the same.

The bigger problem is the media, congress, and everyone in politics failing to give any third party an equal opprtunity to participate in the election.

We all know that no matter who wins, none of what was promised will happen, except probably higher taxes for everyone to pay for this giant mess we are in.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=cooprider]I can’t until this election is over.

Let’s face it. McCain and Obama are one and the same.

The bigger problem is the media, congress, and everyone in politics failing to give any third party an equal opprtunity to participate in the election.

We all know that no matter who wins, none of what was promised will happen, except probably higher taxes for everyone to pay for this giant mess we are in.[/quote]

Well our government is structured (written into the constitution) in a way that always strongly favors 2 factions. Changing that would need multiple amendments and you might really hate the result. Bear in mind our sluggish system never has the wacky excesses to the right or the left that most multiparty systems do. I think France and Germany are 2 countries whose institutional history would discourage multiparty dynamics in the US. Would you disagree? (that’s an actual question-I am curious)

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=cooprider]I can’t until this election is over.

Let’s face it. McCain and Obama are one and the same.

The bigger problem is the media, congress, and everyone in politics failing to give any third party an equal opprtunity to participate in the election.

We all know that no matter who wins, none of what was promised will happen, except probably higher taxes for everyone to pay for this giant mess we are in.[/quote]

Well our government is structured (written into the constitution) in a way that always strongly favors 2 factions. Changing that would need multiple amendments and you might really hate the result. Bear in mind our sluggish system never has the wacky excesses to the right or the left that most multiparty systems do. I think France and Germany are 2 countries whose institutional history would discourage multiparty dynamics in the US. Would you disagree? (that’s an actual question-I am curious)

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=cooprider]I can’t until this election is over.

Let’s face it. McCain and Obama are one and the same.

The bigger problem is the media, congress, and everyone in politics failing to give any third party an equal opprtunity to participate in the election.

We all know that no matter who wins, none of what was promised will happen, except probably higher taxes for everyone to pay for this giant mess we are in.[/quote]

Well our government is structured (written into the constitution) in a way that always strongly favors 2 factions. Changing that would need multiple amendments and you might really hate the result. Bear in mind our sluggish system never has the wacky excesses to the right or the left that most multiparty systems do. I think France and Germany are 2 countries whose institutional history would discourage multiparty dynamics in the US. Would you disagree? (that’s an actual question-I am curious)

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=cooprider]I can’t until this election is over.

Let’s face it. McCain and Obama are one and the same.

The bigger problem is the media, congress, and everyone in politics failing to give any third party an equal opprtunity to participate in the election.

We all know that no matter who wins, none of what was promised will happen, except probably higher taxes for everyone to pay for this giant mess we are in.[/quote]

Well our government is structured (written into the constitution) in a way that always strongly favors 2 factions. Changing that would need multiple amendments and you might really hate the result. Bear in mind our sluggish system never has the wacky excesses to the right or the left that most multiparty systems do. I think France and Germany are 2 countries whose institutional history would discourage multiparty dynamics in the US. Would you disagree? (that’s an actual question-I am curious)

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