OT: Hydrogen car debuts in London 360 MPG

[Rt.66]

[quote=CostaMesa]That’s right. The reason there are almost no 2008 small diesels in the USA can be explained by a grand conspiracy by the months-old Obama administration to prevent good and decent American citizens from having what Big Oil is most afraid of: fuel efficiency. [rolling eyes]

Have y’all ever spoken with someone from a car company? IF they could stop blaming the unions for all of their problems, they’d start blaming the government. Oh wait, they’re doing that now too. Never once will anyone hear a carmaker take responsibility for failing to bring cars to America that we need. [/quote]

Ford says the reason they don’t offer the high-mileage diesel in the US boils down to costs. Not enough Americans are willing to pay thousands of dollars more for the same car with a more costly to produce diesel engine.

One of the reasons Americans don’t see the benefit is that diesel is generally more expensive than gasoline (right now is a temporary exception). Diesel is expensive because of taxes. Government taxes.

Last year you could not buy ANY diesel car in California due to emission standards. Again, Government emission standards.

The Gov. has a role to play in diesels gaining a larger portion of the US car market. You are correct though, there are other issues.

This is a good article on the subject:
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2008/09/can_diesel_ever.html

Who said anything about Obama or unions?
——————–

School House Rock LOL!
Conjunction junction what’s your function….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkO87mkgcNo

[LuckyInOC]

[quote=temeculaguy]Costa, I wasn’t blaming anyone, I was venting frustration. It’s not the time to point fingers in blame, rather, point in a new direction. One that makes sense on a number of levels, solves many problems at the same time and is now at a point when something dramatic can and should happen. Who remembers Schoolhouse Rock and it’s “necessity is the mother of invention” episode.[/quote]

And “laziness is the father of invention”…

“Progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things” – Robert A. Heinlein

I rode in a prototype hybrid 29 years ago (1980) build by Stephen Reed from a VW Bug pan & tranny, 25 hp diesel engine, 6 lead-acid batteries, and a Corsair (WWII) starter/motor as a drive motor. It used vegetable oil and claimed to get 100 mpg and 0-60 the same as a vet at the time… The body was made aerodynamic out of fiberglass. To get the rolling resistance down, he used the thinest tires available and filled them to 50 psi. His dream was to make a small hybrid production car similar to 1999 Honda Insight to 2000 Toyota Prius.

At that time, my brother and I surmised: To get people to buy hybrids, they need to be able to use the carpool lanes with a single occupant. It only took 20 years for that to happen.

1997: The Toyota Prius was introduced to the Japanese market, two years before its original launch date, and prior to the Kyoto global warming conference held in December. First-year sales were nearly 18,000.

1999: Honda released the two-door Insight, the first hybrid car to hit the mass market in the United States. The Insight won numerous awards and received EPA mileage ratings of 61 mpg city and 70 mpg highway.

2000: Toyota released the Toyota Prius, the first hybrid four-door sedan available in the United States.

http://www.hybridcars.com/history/history-of-hybrid-vehicles.html

Bio-fuel Diesel with Hybrids is the immediate answer to reduction of foreign oil use. We can transition from oil-based diesel to bio-fuel by regulated fuel mixtures and/or separate pumps. If every family used at least one bio-fuel diesel hybrid for their primary daily commute car, vehicle oil usage would drop substantially with very little loss in driveability. If they provided a commercially available Bio-Diesel Hybrid, I would buy it for my commuting vehicle. I am greatly considering the Jetta Sedan or Wagon right now…

Edit:

Examples of Diesel Hybrids:
http://www.google.com/translate?u=http://www.belowtheclouds.com/2008/02/07/citroen-c-cactus/&sl=sv&tl=en

Lucky in OC

[LuckyInOC]

[quote=temeculaguy]Costa, I wasn’t blaming anyone, I was venting frustration. It’s not the time to point fingers in blame, rather, point in a new direction. One that makes sense on a number of levels, solves many problems at the same time and is now at a point when something dramatic can and should happen. Who remembers Schoolhouse Rock and it’s “necessity is the mother of invention” episode.[/quote]

And “laziness is the father of invention”…

“Progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things” – Robert A. Heinlein

I rode in a prototype hybrid 29 years ago (1980) build by Stephen Reed from a VW Bug pan & tranny, 25 hp diesel engine, 6 lead-acid batteries, and a Corsair (WWII) starter/motor as a drive motor. It used vegetable oil and claimed to get 100 mpg and 0-60 the same as a vet at the time… The body was made aerodynamic out of fiberglass. To get the rolling resistance down, he used the thinest tires available and filled them to 50 psi. His dream was to make a small hybrid production car similar to 1999 Honda Insight to 2000 Toyota Prius.

At that time, my brother and I surmised: To get people to buy hybrids, they need to be able to use the carpool lanes with a single occupant. It only took 20 years for that to happen.

1997: The Toyota Prius was introduced to the Japanese market, two years before its original launch date, and prior to the Kyoto global warming conference held in December. First-year sales were nearly 18,000.

1999: Honda released the two-door Insight, the first hybrid car to hit the mass market in the United States. The Insight won numerous awards and received EPA mileage ratings of 61 mpg city and 70 mpg highway.

2000: Toyota released the Toyota Prius, the first hybrid four-door sedan available in the United States.

http://www.hybridcars.com/history/history-of-hybrid-vehicles.html

Bio-fuel Diesel with Hybrids is the immediate answer to reduction of foreign oil use. We can transition from oil-based diesel to bio-fuel by regulated fuel mixtures and/or separate pumps. If every family used at least one bio-fuel diesel hybrid for their primary daily commute car, vehicle oil usage would drop substantially with very little loss in driveability. If they provided a commercially available Bio-Diesel Hybrid, I would buy it for my commuting vehicle. I am greatly considering the Jetta Sedan or Wagon right now…

Edit:

Examples of Diesel Hybrids:
http://www.google.com/translate?u=http://www.belowtheclouds.com/2008/02/07/citroen-c-cactus/&sl=sv&tl=en

Lucky in OC

[LuckyInOC]

[quote=temeculaguy]Costa, I wasn’t blaming anyone, I was venting frustration. It’s not the time to point fingers in blame, rather, point in a new direction. One that makes sense on a number of levels, solves many problems at the same time and is now at a point when something dramatic can and should happen. Who remembers Schoolhouse Rock and it’s “necessity is the mother of invention” episode.[/quote]

And “laziness is the father of invention”…

“Progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things” – Robert A. Heinlein

I rode in a prototype hybrid 29 years ago (1980) build by Stephen Reed from a VW Bug pan & tranny, 25 hp diesel engine, 6 lead-acid batteries, and a Corsair (WWII) starter/motor as a drive motor. It used vegetable oil and claimed to get 100 mpg and 0-60 the same as a vet at the time… The body was made aerodynamic out of fiberglass. To get the rolling resistance down, he used the thinest tires available and filled them to 50 psi. His dream was to make a small hybrid production car similar to 1999 Honda Insight to 2000 Toyota Prius.

At that time, my brother and I surmised: To get people to buy hybrids, they need to be able to use the carpool lanes with a single occupant. It only took 20 years for that to happen.

1997: The Toyota Prius was introduced to the Japanese market, two years before its original launch date, and prior to the Kyoto global warming conference held in December. First-year sales were nearly 18,000.

1999: Honda released the two-door Insight, the first hybrid car to hit the mass market in the United States. The Insight won numerous awards and received EPA mileage ratings of 61 mpg city and 70 mpg highway.

2000: Toyota released the Toyota Prius, the first hybrid four-door sedan available in the United States.

http://www.hybridcars.com/history/history-of-hybrid-vehicles.html

Bio-fuel Diesel with Hybrids is the immediate answer to reduction of foreign oil use. We can transition from oil-based diesel to bio-fuel by regulated fuel mixtures and/or separate pumps. If every family used at least one bio-fuel diesel hybrid for their primary daily commute car, vehicle oil usage would drop substantially with very little loss in driveability. If they provided a commercially available Bio-Diesel Hybrid, I would buy it for my commuting vehicle. I am greatly considering the Jetta Sedan or Wagon right now…

Edit:

Examples of Diesel Hybrids:
http://www.google.com/translate?u=http://www.belowtheclouds.com/2008/02/07/citroen-c-cactus/&sl=sv&tl=en

Lucky in OC

[LuckyInOC]

[quote=temeculaguy]Costa, I wasn’t blaming anyone, I was venting frustration. It’s not the time to point fingers in blame, rather, point in a new direction. One that makes sense on a number of levels, solves many problems at the same time and is now at a point when something dramatic can and should happen. Who remembers Schoolhouse Rock and it’s “necessity is the mother of invention” episode.[/quote]

And “laziness is the father of invention”…

“Progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things” – Robert A. Heinlein

I rode in a prototype hybrid 29 years ago (1980) build by Stephen Reed from a VW Bug pan & tranny, 25 hp diesel engine, 6 lead-acid batteries, and a Corsair (WWII) starter/motor as a drive motor. It used vegetable oil and claimed to get 100 mpg and 0-60 the same as a vet at the time… The body was made aerodynamic out of fiberglass. To get the rolling resistance down, he used the thinest tires available and filled them to 50 psi. His dream was to make a small hybrid production car similar to 1999 Honda Insight to 2000 Toyota Prius.

At that time, my brother and I surmised: To get people to buy hybrids, they need to be able to use the carpool lanes with a single occupant. It only took 20 years for that to happen.

1997: The Toyota Prius was introduced to the Japanese market, two years before its original launch date, and prior to the Kyoto global warming conference held in December. First-year sales were nearly 18,000.

1999: Honda released the two-door Insight, the first hybrid car to hit the mass market in the United States. The Insight won numerous awards and received EPA mileage ratings of 61 mpg city and 70 mpg highway.

2000: Toyota released the Toyota Prius, the first hybrid four-door sedan available in the United States.

http://www.hybridcars.com/history/history-of-hybrid-vehicles.html

Bio-fuel Diesel with Hybrids is the immediate answer to reduction of foreign oil use. We can transition from oil-based diesel to bio-fuel by regulated fuel mixtures and/or separate pumps. If every family used at least one bio-fuel diesel hybrid for their primary daily commute car, vehicle oil usage would drop substantially with very little loss in driveability. If they provided a commercially available Bio-Diesel Hybrid, I would buy it for my commuting vehicle. I am greatly considering the Jetta Sedan or Wagon right now…

Edit:

Examples of Diesel Hybrids:
http://www.google.com/translate?u=http://www.belowtheclouds.com/2008/02/07/citroen-c-cactus/&sl=sv&tl=en

Lucky in OC

[LuckyInOC]

[quote=temeculaguy]Costa, I wasn’t blaming anyone, I was venting frustration. It’s not the time to point fingers in blame, rather, point in a new direction. One that makes sense on a number of levels, solves many problems at the same time and is now at a point when something dramatic can and should happen. Who remembers Schoolhouse Rock and it’s “necessity is the mother of invention” episode.[/quote]

And “laziness is the father of invention”…

“Progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things” – Robert A. Heinlein

I rode in a prototype hybrid 29 years ago (1980) build by Stephen Reed from a VW Bug pan & tranny, 25 hp diesel engine, 6 lead-acid batteries, and a Corsair (WWII) starter/motor as a drive motor. It used vegetable oil and claimed to get 100 mpg and 0-60 the same as a vet at the time… The body was made aerodynamic out of fiberglass. To get the rolling resistance down, he used the thinest tires available and filled them to 50 psi. His dream was to make a small hybrid production car similar to 1999 Honda Insight to 2000 Toyota Prius.

At that time, my brother and I surmised: To get people to buy hybrids, they need to be able to use the carpool lanes with a single occupant. It only took 20 years for that to happen.

1997: The Toyota Prius was introduced to the Japanese market, two years before its original launch date, and prior to the Kyoto global warming conference held in December. First-year sales were nearly 18,000.

1999: Honda released the two-door Insight, the first hybrid car to hit the mass market in the United States. The Insight won numerous awards and received EPA mileage ratings of 61 mpg city and 70 mpg highway.

2000: Toyota released the Toyota Prius, the first hybrid four-door sedan available in the United States.

http://www.hybridcars.com/history/history-of-hybrid-vehicles.html

Bio-fuel Diesel with Hybrids is the immediate answer to reduction of foreign oil use. We can transition from oil-based diesel to bio-fuel by regulated fuel mixtures and/or separate pumps. If every family used at least one bio-fuel diesel hybrid for their primary daily commute car, vehicle oil usage would drop substantially with very little loss in driveability. If they provided a commercially available Bio-Diesel Hybrid, I would buy it for my commuting vehicle. I am greatly considering the Jetta Sedan or Wagon right now…

Edit:

Examples of Diesel Hybrids:
http://www.google.com/translate?u=http://www.belowtheclouds.com/2008/02/07/citroen-c-cactus/&sl=sv&tl=en

Lucky in OC

[Coronita]

[quote=Rt.66]

One of the reasons Americans don’t see the benefit is that diesel is generally more expensive than gasoline (right now is a temporary exception). Diesel is expensive because of taxes. Government taxes.

[/quote]

Um

1) Historically, diesel has been cheaper from gasoline. It’s a less refined product.

2) Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines.

3) Diesel prices spiked for some time of recent times in U.S. due to a number of factors including
a) increased demand for diesel fuel worldwide
b) U.S. recent change to requiring diesel having ultra low sulfur emissions (not enough production capacity for this)
c) Its distillate that also used to produce heating oil, which during past couple of years we had a few sprouts of cold winters in the NE pushing up demand for heating oil.

Some data:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/diesel/index.html

Part of reason why diesel isn’t popular in the U.S. was (1) emissions issues in the past and (2) old perception that diesels are those smokey cars from the 80ies that stink, which generally isn’t the case no more.

Germans lead in diesel engines, bluetec diesel and VAG TDI, and those TDI products have been selling pretty well. Some can easily be converted to your biodiesel animal fat burners.

Diesel also poses a minor problems in cold weather as it gets interesting once it reaches 32F or below without additional additives.

[Coronita]

[quote=Rt.66]

One of the reasons Americans don’t see the benefit is that diesel is generally more expensive than gasoline (right now is a temporary exception). Diesel is expensive because of taxes. Government taxes.

[/quote]

Um

1) Historically, diesel has been cheaper from gasoline. It’s a less refined product.

2) Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines.

3) Diesel prices spiked for some time of recent times in U.S. due to a number of factors including
a) increased demand for diesel fuel worldwide
b) U.S. recent change to requiring diesel having ultra low sulfur emissions (not enough production capacity for this)
c) Its distillate that also used to produce heating oil, which during past couple of years we had a few sprouts of cold winters in the NE pushing up demand for heating oil.

Some data:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/diesel/index.html

Part of reason why diesel isn’t popular in the U.S. was (1) emissions issues in the past and (2) old perception that diesels are those smokey cars from the 80ies that stink, which generally isn’t the case no more.

Germans lead in diesel engines, bluetec diesel and VAG TDI, and those TDI products have been selling pretty well. Some can easily be converted to your biodiesel animal fat burners.

Diesel also poses a minor problems in cold weather as it gets interesting once it reaches 32F or below without additional additives.

[Coronita]

[quote=Rt.66]

One of the reasons Americans don’t see the benefit is that diesel is generally more expensive than gasoline (right now is a temporary exception). Diesel is expensive because of taxes. Government taxes.

[/quote]

Um

1) Historically, diesel has been cheaper from gasoline. It’s a less refined product.

2) Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines.

3) Diesel prices spiked for some time of recent times in U.S. due to a number of factors including
a) increased demand for diesel fuel worldwide
b) U.S. recent change to requiring diesel having ultra low sulfur emissions (not enough production capacity for this)
c) Its distillate that also used to produce heating oil, which during past couple of years we had a few sprouts of cold winters in the NE pushing up demand for heating oil.

Some data:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/diesel/index.html

Part of reason why diesel isn’t popular in the U.S. was (1) emissions issues in the past and (2) old perception that diesels are those smokey cars from the 80ies that stink, which generally isn’t the case no more.

Germans lead in diesel engines, bluetec diesel and VAG TDI, and those TDI products have been selling pretty well. Some can easily be converted to your biodiesel animal fat burners.

Diesel also poses a minor problems in cold weather as it gets interesting once it reaches 32F or below without additional additives.

[Coronita]

[quote=Rt.66]

One of the reasons Americans don’t see the benefit is that diesel is generally more expensive than gasoline (right now is a temporary exception). Diesel is expensive because of taxes. Government taxes.

[/quote]

Um

1) Historically, diesel has been cheaper from gasoline. It’s a less refined product.

2) Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines.

3) Diesel prices spiked for some time of recent times in U.S. due to a number of factors including
a) increased demand for diesel fuel worldwide
b) U.S. recent change to requiring diesel having ultra low sulfur emissions (not enough production capacity for this)
c) Its distillate that also used to produce heating oil, which during past couple of years we had a few sprouts of cold winters in the NE pushing up demand for heating oil.

Some data:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/diesel/index.html

Part of reason why diesel isn’t popular in the U.S. was (1) emissions issues in the past and (2) old perception that diesels are those smokey cars from the 80ies that stink, which generally isn’t the case no more.

Germans lead in diesel engines, bluetec diesel and VAG TDI, and those TDI products have been selling pretty well. Some can easily be converted to your biodiesel animal fat burners.

Diesel also poses a minor problems in cold weather as it gets interesting once it reaches 32F or below without additional additives.

[Coronita]

[quote=Rt.66]

One of the reasons Americans don’t see the benefit is that diesel is generally more expensive than gasoline (right now is a temporary exception). Diesel is expensive because of taxes. Government taxes.

[/quote]

Um

1) Historically, diesel has been cheaper from gasoline. It’s a less refined product.

2) Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines.

3) Diesel prices spiked for some time of recent times in U.S. due to a number of factors including
a) increased demand for diesel fuel worldwide
b) U.S. recent change to requiring diesel having ultra low sulfur emissions (not enough production capacity for this)
c) Its distillate that also used to produce heating oil, which during past couple of years we had a few sprouts of cold winters in the NE pushing up demand for heating oil.

Some data:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/bookshelf/brochures/diesel/index.html

Part of reason why diesel isn’t popular in the U.S. was (1) emissions issues in the past and (2) old perception that diesels are those smokey cars from the 80ies that stink, which generally isn’t the case no more.

Germans lead in diesel engines, bluetec diesel and VAG TDI, and those TDI products have been selling pretty well. Some can easily be converted to your biodiesel animal fat burners.

Diesel also poses a minor problems in cold weather as it gets interesting once it reaches 32F or below without additional additives.

[Coronita]

[quote=threadkiller]My VW Jetta TDI(Diesel) gets 40+ mpg, is safe, can run on renewable energy(vegetable oil). So why am I not seeing more of them out there on the road? The new Diesel technology is way better than the older stuff. The same could be said for the Segway for pedestrian travel. I don’t have one (too expensive) but they do make sense for Postal workers, guards and others that walk a lot in their jobs. Is anybody seeing them at golf courses?
Did I mention that diesel is currently the cheapest fuel @ the gas station.[/quote]

VAG isn’t producing enough of them frankly for the states. They are(were) in short supply.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.ef391bb?displayRecent

[Coronita]

[quote=threadkiller]My VW Jetta TDI(Diesel) gets 40+ mpg, is safe, can run on renewable energy(vegetable oil). So why am I not seeing more of them out there on the road? The new Diesel technology is way better than the older stuff. The same could be said for the Segway for pedestrian travel. I don’t have one (too expensive) but they do make sense for Postal workers, guards and others that walk a lot in their jobs. Is anybody seeing them at golf courses?
Did I mention that diesel is currently the cheapest fuel @ the gas station.[/quote]

VAG isn’t producing enough of them frankly for the states. They are(were) in short supply.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.ef391bb?displayRecent

[Coronita]

[quote=threadkiller]My VW Jetta TDI(Diesel) gets 40+ mpg, is safe, can run on renewable energy(vegetable oil). So why am I not seeing more of them out there on the road? The new Diesel technology is way better than the older stuff. The same could be said for the Segway for pedestrian travel. I don’t have one (too expensive) but they do make sense for Postal workers, guards and others that walk a lot in their jobs. Is anybody seeing them at golf courses?
Did I mention that diesel is currently the cheapest fuel @ the gas station.[/quote]

VAG isn’t producing enough of them frankly for the states. They are(were) in short supply.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.ef391bb?displayRecent

[Coronita]

[quote=threadkiller]My VW Jetta TDI(Diesel) gets 40+ mpg, is safe, can run on renewable energy(vegetable oil). So why am I not seeing more of them out there on the road? The new Diesel technology is way better than the older stuff. The same could be said for the Segway for pedestrian travel. I don’t have one (too expensive) but they do make sense for Postal workers, guards and others that walk a lot in their jobs. Is anybody seeing them at golf courses?
Did I mention that diesel is currently the cheapest fuel @ the gas station.[/quote]

VAG isn’t producing enough of them frankly for the states. They are(were) in short supply.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.ef391bb?displayRecent

[Author]

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