OT: Health Care in Mexico vs. U.S. (related to “Father is visiting and hospitalized…”)

[davelj]

[quote=CA renter][quote=ocrenter][quote=air_ogi]The right solution would be to start over, scrap the current system completely. Do what Taiwan did, research existing systems and implement pieces that work the best.

With all of this talk of socialism, the numbers are simple. Would you switch to socialist Canadian system if it meant Canada level healthcare and saving $4000 per member of you family every year?[/quote]

I think the most important take away from the Taiwan experience is that picking a single payer system does not equal a country is going down that socialist pathway. that’s just how the debate here in this country has morphed into.

in fact, if a government truly is pro-business, it’ll want to support that single payer system. As it would remove the burden of providing care from the employer and allow people the freedom to leave jobs and start new businesses.[/quote]

Bingo, OCR![/quote]

Yup. Hit the nail on the head.

At least 80% of the US population would be better off with a single-payer (government) system. The only folks who wouldn’t be better off would be (1) people who work in the health care and health insurance fields, and (2) folks who would otherwise be “waiting in the queue” for complicated medical procedures. (Some rationing of health care is unavoidable unless we want health care costs to continue rising at a percentage of GDP – theoretically, there’s a limit… but who knows where it is given our system.)

I also agree that part of the problem is that the health care debate has been allowed to get framed in the “socialism vs. free market” context, while it’s a clear case of market failure (in my view, at least).

[briansd1]

[quote=ocrenter]
I think the most important take away from the Taiwan experience is that picking a single payer system does not equal a country is going down that socialist pathway. that’s just how the debate here in this country has morphed into.

in fact, if a government truly is pro-business, it’ll want to support that single payer system. As it would remove the burden of providing care from the employer and allow people the freedom to leave jobs and start new businesses.[/quote]

ocrenter, since you support a single payer system, I’m wondering if you support the HCR bill as a better-than-nothing stop gap measure, or do you want all or nothing.

Back in 1971, Nixon proposed a health care bill that is more progressive than today’s. So far we have nothing.

I believe that if we are to have a single payer system, we need to arrive at it step by step otherwise, it’ll never happen.

[briansd1]

[quote=ocrenter]
I think the most important take away from the Taiwan experience is that picking a single payer system does not equal a country is going down that socialist pathway. that’s just how the debate here in this country has morphed into.

in fact, if a government truly is pro-business, it’ll want to support that single payer system. As it would remove the burden of providing care from the employer and allow people the freedom to leave jobs and start new businesses.[/quote]

ocrenter, since you support a single payer system, I’m wondering if you support the HCR bill as a better-than-nothing stop gap measure, or do you want all or nothing.

Back in 1971, Nixon proposed a health care bill that is more progressive than today’s. So far we have nothing.

I believe that if we are to have a single payer system, we need to arrive at it step by step otherwise, it’ll never happen.

[briansd1]

[quote=ocrenter]
I think the most important take away from the Taiwan experience is that picking a single payer system does not equal a country is going down that socialist pathway. that’s just how the debate here in this country has morphed into.

in fact, if a government truly is pro-business, it’ll want to support that single payer system. As it would remove the burden of providing care from the employer and allow people the freedom to leave jobs and start new businesses.[/quote]

ocrenter, since you support a single payer system, I’m wondering if you support the HCR bill as a better-than-nothing stop gap measure, or do you want all or nothing.

Back in 1971, Nixon proposed a health care bill that is more progressive than today’s. So far we have nothing.

I believe that if we are to have a single payer system, we need to arrive at it step by step otherwise, it’ll never happen.

[briansd1]

[quote=ocrenter]
I think the most important take away from the Taiwan experience is that picking a single payer system does not equal a country is going down that socialist pathway. that’s just how the debate here in this country has morphed into.

in fact, if a government truly is pro-business, it’ll want to support that single payer system. As it would remove the burden of providing care from the employer and allow people the freedom to leave jobs and start new businesses.[/quote]

ocrenter, since you support a single payer system, I’m wondering if you support the HCR bill as a better-than-nothing stop gap measure, or do you want all or nothing.

Back in 1971, Nixon proposed a health care bill that is more progressive than today’s. So far we have nothing.

I believe that if we are to have a single payer system, we need to arrive at it step by step otherwise, it’ll never happen.

[briansd1]

[quote=ocrenter]
I think the most important take away from the Taiwan experience is that picking a single payer system does not equal a country is going down that socialist pathway. that’s just how the debate here in this country has morphed into.

in fact, if a government truly is pro-business, it’ll want to support that single payer system. As it would remove the burden of providing care from the employer and allow people the freedom to leave jobs and start new businesses.[/quote]

ocrenter, since you support a single payer system, I’m wondering if you support the HCR bill as a better-than-nothing stop gap measure, or do you want all or nothing.

Back in 1971, Nixon proposed a health care bill that is more progressive than today’s. So far we have nothing.

I believe that if we are to have a single payer system, we need to arrive at it step by step otherwise, it’ll never happen.

[Anonymous]

Meadandale must not be familiar with Mexico at all.
I have had several emergencies treated in Mexico and was never asked to pay up front or for insurance. On one occasion my wife was severly burned on the leg with boiling oil and was treated for weeks with silver oxide and grafts. Total cost was ~$300.00 at the Red cross hospital in Rosarito. Another time my 17 yr old son jumped down a water slide at a park in Tecate, hit his head and was knocked unconcious, and remained under water for about 30 seconds before his younger brother saw him and I jumped in to bring him to the surface. He was taken by ambulance to the Tecate General Hospital. Where he was seen by a general dr. an subsequently by a Neurosurgeon and given an anti clotting drug. Total cost $38.00. Of course when we returned to the states and took him to his regular Dr. we were chastized for not bringing him to the emergency room here where I’m sure the cost would have exceeded $10,000. I have lived in Mexico for over 10 yrs and have insurance through my employer here, but find the service in Mexico more efficient and cost effective in many circumstances.
T

[Anonymous]

Meadandale must not be familiar with Mexico at all.
I have had several emergencies treated in Mexico and was never asked to pay up front or for insurance. On one occasion my wife was severly burned on the leg with boiling oil and was treated for weeks with silver oxide and grafts. Total cost was ~$300.00 at the Red cross hospital in Rosarito. Another time my 17 yr old son jumped down a water slide at a park in Tecate, hit his head and was knocked unconcious, and remained under water for about 30 seconds before his younger brother saw him and I jumped in to bring him to the surface. He was taken by ambulance to the Tecate General Hospital. Where he was seen by a general dr. an subsequently by a Neurosurgeon and given an anti clotting drug. Total cost $38.00. Of course when we returned to the states and took him to his regular Dr. we were chastized for not bringing him to the emergency room here where I’m sure the cost would have exceeded $10,000. I have lived in Mexico for over 10 yrs and have insurance through my employer here, but find the service in Mexico more efficient and cost effective in many circumstances.
T

[Anonymous]

Meadandale must not be familiar with Mexico at all.
I have had several emergencies treated in Mexico and was never asked to pay up front or for insurance. On one occasion my wife was severly burned on the leg with boiling oil and was treated for weeks with silver oxide and grafts. Total cost was ~$300.00 at the Red cross hospital in Rosarito. Another time my 17 yr old son jumped down a water slide at a park in Tecate, hit his head and was knocked unconcious, and remained under water for about 30 seconds before his younger brother saw him and I jumped in to bring him to the surface. He was taken by ambulance to the Tecate General Hospital. Where he was seen by a general dr. an subsequently by a Neurosurgeon and given an anti clotting drug. Total cost $38.00. Of course when we returned to the states and took him to his regular Dr. we were chastized for not bringing him to the emergency room here where I’m sure the cost would have exceeded $10,000. I have lived in Mexico for over 10 yrs and have insurance through my employer here, but find the service in Mexico more efficient and cost effective in many circumstances.
T

[Anonymous]

Meadandale must not be familiar with Mexico at all.
I have had several emergencies treated in Mexico and was never asked to pay up front or for insurance. On one occasion my wife was severly burned on the leg with boiling oil and was treated for weeks with silver oxide and grafts. Total cost was ~$300.00 at the Red cross hospital in Rosarito. Another time my 17 yr old son jumped down a water slide at a park in Tecate, hit his head and was knocked unconcious, and remained under water for about 30 seconds before his younger brother saw him and I jumped in to bring him to the surface. He was taken by ambulance to the Tecate General Hospital. Where he was seen by a general dr. an subsequently by a Neurosurgeon and given an anti clotting drug. Total cost $38.00. Of course when we returned to the states and took him to his regular Dr. we were chastized for not bringing him to the emergency room here where I’m sure the cost would have exceeded $10,000. I have lived in Mexico for over 10 yrs and have insurance through my employer here, but find the service in Mexico more efficient and cost effective in many circumstances.
T

[Anonymous]

Meadandale must not be familiar with Mexico at all.
I have had several emergencies treated in Mexico and was never asked to pay up front or for insurance. On one occasion my wife was severly burned on the leg with boiling oil and was treated for weeks with silver oxide and grafts. Total cost was ~$300.00 at the Red cross hospital in Rosarito. Another time my 17 yr old son jumped down a water slide at a park in Tecate, hit his head and was knocked unconcious, and remained under water for about 30 seconds before his younger brother saw him and I jumped in to bring him to the surface. He was taken by ambulance to the Tecate General Hospital. Where he was seen by a general dr. an subsequently by a Neurosurgeon and given an anti clotting drug. Total cost $38.00. Of course when we returned to the states and took him to his regular Dr. we were chastized for not bringing him to the emergency room here where I’m sure the cost would have exceeded $10,000. I have lived in Mexico for over 10 yrs and have insurance through my employer here, but find the service in Mexico more efficient and cost effective in many circumstances.
T

[ocrenter]

[quote=briansd1]

ocrenter, since you support a single payer system, I’m wondering if you support the HCR bill as a better-than-nothing stop gap measure, or do you want all or nothing.

Back in 1971, Nixon proposed a health care bill that is more progressive than today’s. So far we have nothing.

I believe that if we are to have a single payer system, we need to arrive at it step by step otherwise, it’ll never happen.[/quote]

I understand what you are getting at.

here’s the big BUT.

if this bill passes, and it doesn’t do what it promises. and most likely it will not because you really can’t acheive the type of cost reduction he is looking for without that single payer system in place. you’ll be looking at an even more skeptical public that will fight any future reforms.

or, the other premise. this bill goes down, and allow the health care situation deteriorate so badly to the point that the public would accept out right single payer.

This is the same crossroad that we were encountered with in late 2008. do we spend a trillion dollar to bail out the financial system, in the process avoid a Great Depression II, but maintain a status quo that will continue our slow decline in economic power; or do we allow the system to completely collapse and hopefully stand up from the ashes renewed and stronger.

[ocrenter]

[quote=briansd1]

ocrenter, since you support a single payer system, I’m wondering if you support the HCR bill as a better-than-nothing stop gap measure, or do you want all or nothing.

Back in 1971, Nixon proposed a health care bill that is more progressive than today’s. So far we have nothing.

I believe that if we are to have a single payer system, we need to arrive at it step by step otherwise, it’ll never happen.[/quote]

I understand what you are getting at.

here’s the big BUT.

if this bill passes, and it doesn’t do what it promises. and most likely it will not because you really can’t acheive the type of cost reduction he is looking for without that single payer system in place. you’ll be looking at an even more skeptical public that will fight any future reforms.

or, the other premise. this bill goes down, and allow the health care situation deteriorate so badly to the point that the public would accept out right single payer.

This is the same crossroad that we were encountered with in late 2008. do we spend a trillion dollar to bail out the financial system, in the process avoid a Great Depression II, but maintain a status quo that will continue our slow decline in economic power; or do we allow the system to completely collapse and hopefully stand up from the ashes renewed and stronger.

[ocrenter]

[quote=briansd1]

ocrenter, since you support a single payer system, I’m wondering if you support the HCR bill as a better-than-nothing stop gap measure, or do you want all or nothing.

Back in 1971, Nixon proposed a health care bill that is more progressive than today’s. So far we have nothing.

I believe that if we are to have a single payer system, we need to arrive at it step by step otherwise, it’ll never happen.[/quote]

I understand what you are getting at.

here’s the big BUT.

if this bill passes, and it doesn’t do what it promises. and most likely it will not because you really can’t acheive the type of cost reduction he is looking for without that single payer system in place. you’ll be looking at an even more skeptical public that will fight any future reforms.

or, the other premise. this bill goes down, and allow the health care situation deteriorate so badly to the point that the public would accept out right single payer.

This is the same crossroad that we were encountered with in late 2008. do we spend a trillion dollar to bail out the financial system, in the process avoid a Great Depression II, but maintain a status quo that will continue our slow decline in economic power; or do we allow the system to completely collapse and hopefully stand up from the ashes renewed and stronger.

[ocrenter]

[quote=briansd1]

ocrenter, since you support a single payer system, I’m wondering if you support the HCR bill as a better-than-nothing stop gap measure, or do you want all or nothing.

Back in 1971, Nixon proposed a health care bill that is more progressive than today’s. So far we have nothing.

I believe that if we are to have a single payer system, we need to arrive at it step by step otherwise, it’ll never happen.[/quote]

I understand what you are getting at.

here’s the big BUT.

if this bill passes, and it doesn’t do what it promises. and most likely it will not because you really can’t acheive the type of cost reduction he is looking for without that single payer system in place. you’ll be looking at an even more skeptical public that will fight any future reforms.

or, the other premise. this bill goes down, and allow the health care situation deteriorate so badly to the point that the public would accept out right single payer.

This is the same crossroad that we were encountered with in late 2008. do we spend a trillion dollar to bail out the financial system, in the process avoid a Great Depression II, but maintain a status quo that will continue our slow decline in economic power; or do we allow the system to completely collapse and hopefully stand up from the ashes renewed and stronger.

[Author]

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