OT: California Prison Academy: Better Than a Harvard Degree

[bearishgurl]

[quote=pabloesqobar]…Again, sorry about your family member. But 1 isolated incident in another State does not support any conclusion about the prison guards in CA.[/quote]

I just want to add that the incidences CAR and UCGal’s relatives who were prison guards experienced happens nearly every week in every state in one or more institutions. There are layer upon layer of regulations and procedures those employees must follow but it’s always a judgment call. Very often, they’re damned if they take action and damned if they don’t (and damned if they take the “wrong kind, not enough,” or “too much” action). Besides these heavy “inmate-control” responsibilites, these institutions are often a hotbed of political discourse and hierarchy inside (“classification” be damned) for those who work there. The unsuspecting “new hire” or “transfer” doesn’t understand all these “ins and outs” until they have been stationed there awhile (and hopefully latch onto a “mentor” they can trust). It is very easy for an employee (new or experienced) to walk into a “situation” in there or have a “situation” walk into them that will end up being a cause of them being disciplined or their ultimate discharge.

It doesn’t help that there are many lawyers in CA who will sue the state on a prisoner’s behalf for prisoner neglect or maltreatment. This keeps an entire fleet of attorneys in each major AG’s office perpetually busy (also taxpayer funded).

[Coronita]

Wow…. I have now learned that several piggs are now expert Prison Vocational Career Counselors. Where do I sign up?

It’s hard work, but then not hard work. It’s overpaid, but not overpaid. It’s a dangerous job but not a dangerous job….

Would you experts please hurry up and make up your mind and give me the final definitive answer??? My career is depending on this….

[Coronita]

Wow…. I have now learned that several piggs are now expert Prison Vocational Career Counselors. Where do I sign up?

It’s hard work, but then not hard work. It’s overpaid, but not overpaid. It’s a dangerous job but not a dangerous job….

Would you experts please hurry up and make up your mind and give me the final definitive answer??? My career is depending on this….

[Coronita]

Wow…. I have now learned that several piggs are now expert Prison Vocational Career Counselors. Where do I sign up?

It’s hard work, but then not hard work. It’s overpaid, but not overpaid. It’s a dangerous job but not a dangerous job….

Would you experts please hurry up and make up your mind and give me the final definitive answer??? My career is depending on this….

[Coronita]

Wow…. I have now learned that several piggs are now expert Prison Vocational Career Counselors. Where do I sign up?

It’s hard work, but then not hard work. It’s overpaid, but not overpaid. It’s a dangerous job but not a dangerous job….

Would you experts please hurry up and make up your mind and give me the final definitive answer??? My career is depending on this….

[Coronita]

Wow…. I have now learned that several piggs are now expert Prison Vocational Career Counselors. Where do I sign up?

It’s hard work, but then not hard work. It’s overpaid, but not overpaid. It’s a dangerous job but not a dangerous job….

Would you experts please hurry up and make up your mind and give me the final definitive answer??? My career is depending on this….

[CA renter]

[quote=pabloesqobar][quote=CA renter]
Gee, I wonder why the high turnover rates when morale is so high, the job is so easy, and they are so overpaid? What a conundrum!

Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!!

Why do I keep saying this? It’s because we keep hearing the arguments about how, “I don’t get paid that kind of salary, and I’m an [fill in the blank — but it’s almost always someone with a desk job, a college degree, and a tremendously inflated opinion of his/her own work, and very little knowledge about what these “union thugs” actually do], why should they get these benefits/pay?”

The only reasonable answer to this is: apply for the job, see if you qualify, go through the training, and do the job for a year or two. Maybe then, they’d know why prison guards get paid what they do (or at least they can stop complaining, as they’d be “getting rich” as a “union thug,” too!). Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time. Go for it![/quote]

None of those studies refer to California, which is what this thread is about. They only mention Texas and Alabama. The pay they refer to is not the pay being complained of here in CA. The attrition rate quoted is not the attrition rate in CA.

The arguments about the pay have not been how you conveniently framed it as “I don’t get that kind of salary, and I’m in “x” job”. The argument has been that the taxpayers in CA pay too much for the prison system, when looking at the pay and benefits the prison guards receive.

You feel taxpayers don’t have the right to complain about any public employee position unless they are willing and able to do that particular job.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that point.

Again, sorry about your family member. But 1 isolated incident in another State does not support any conclusion about the prison guards in CA.[/quote]

The first two links refer to national statistics, while the last ones refer to Texas. The mention of Texas and Alabama was just because some prison escapes in those states highlighted the problem, and made people look further into it on a national level.

A comparison between California and Texas:

California’s prison guards make more than twice their counterparts in Texas—$71,000 a year, compared with $31,000. That difference is true for state workers in general: While in 2009 the average private-sector worker in California made 12.5 percent more than in Texas, the disparity among state workers was 25.2 percent, according to Commerce Dept. figures.

The higher pay, however, makes for a more consistent workforce. California’s 10 percent turnover rate for prison guards is about half the level it is in Texas. “Our people view their work as a career, not just as something to have until something better comes along,” says Ryan Sherman, a spokesman for the California Correctional Peace Officers Assn. in Sacramento.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_19/b4227025728517.htm
————————–

California has the largest prison population of any state in the nation, with 168,000 inmates in 33 adult prisons, and the state’s annual correctional spending, including jails and probation, amounts to $8.92 billion. California’s prisons currently operate at nearly 200% of their intended capacity, making them dramatically overcrowded.

http://ucicorrections.seweb.uci.edu/pdf/cprcsummary.pdf
——————————–

They are making the decision to pay them more so that they can keep their turnover rate down. Imagine if we had Texas’ turnover rate. How much would that end up costing taxpayers, knowing that recruiting and training these guards is so expensive? I think an argument could be made that paying them more actually saves taxpayers money.

[CA renter]

[quote=pabloesqobar][quote=CA renter]
Gee, I wonder why the high turnover rates when morale is so high, the job is so easy, and they are so overpaid? What a conundrum!

Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!!

Why do I keep saying this? It’s because we keep hearing the arguments about how, “I don’t get paid that kind of salary, and I’m an [fill in the blank — but it’s almost always someone with a desk job, a college degree, and a tremendously inflated opinion of his/her own work, and very little knowledge about what these “union thugs” actually do], why should they get these benefits/pay?”

The only reasonable answer to this is: apply for the job, see if you qualify, go through the training, and do the job for a year or two. Maybe then, they’d know why prison guards get paid what they do (or at least they can stop complaining, as they’d be “getting rich” as a “union thug,” too!). Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time. Go for it![/quote]

None of those studies refer to California, which is what this thread is about. They only mention Texas and Alabama. The pay they refer to is not the pay being complained of here in CA. The attrition rate quoted is not the attrition rate in CA.

The arguments about the pay have not been how you conveniently framed it as “I don’t get that kind of salary, and I’m in “x” job”. The argument has been that the taxpayers in CA pay too much for the prison system, when looking at the pay and benefits the prison guards receive.

You feel taxpayers don’t have the right to complain about any public employee position unless they are willing and able to do that particular job.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that point.

Again, sorry about your family member. But 1 isolated incident in another State does not support any conclusion about the prison guards in CA.[/quote]

The first two links refer to national statistics, while the last ones refer to Texas. The mention of Texas and Alabama was just because some prison escapes in those states highlighted the problem, and made people look further into it on a national level.

A comparison between California and Texas:

California’s prison guards make more than twice their counterparts in Texas—$71,000 a year, compared with $31,000. That difference is true for state workers in general: While in 2009 the average private-sector worker in California made 12.5 percent more than in Texas, the disparity among state workers was 25.2 percent, according to Commerce Dept. figures.

The higher pay, however, makes for a more consistent workforce. California’s 10 percent turnover rate for prison guards is about half the level it is in Texas. “Our people view their work as a career, not just as something to have until something better comes along,” says Ryan Sherman, a spokesman for the California Correctional Peace Officers Assn. in Sacramento.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_19/b4227025728517.htm
————————–

California has the largest prison population of any state in the nation, with 168,000 inmates in 33 adult prisons, and the state’s annual correctional spending, including jails and probation, amounts to $8.92 billion. California’s prisons currently operate at nearly 200% of their intended capacity, making them dramatically overcrowded.

http://ucicorrections.seweb.uci.edu/pdf/cprcsummary.pdf
——————————–

They are making the decision to pay them more so that they can keep their turnover rate down. Imagine if we had Texas’ turnover rate. How much would that end up costing taxpayers, knowing that recruiting and training these guards is so expensive? I think an argument could be made that paying them more actually saves taxpayers money.

[CA renter]

[quote=pabloesqobar][quote=CA renter]
Gee, I wonder why the high turnover rates when morale is so high, the job is so easy, and they are so overpaid? What a conundrum!

Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!!

Why do I keep saying this? It’s because we keep hearing the arguments about how, “I don’t get paid that kind of salary, and I’m an [fill in the blank — but it’s almost always someone with a desk job, a college degree, and a tremendously inflated opinion of his/her own work, and very little knowledge about what these “union thugs” actually do], why should they get these benefits/pay?”

The only reasonable answer to this is: apply for the job, see if you qualify, go through the training, and do the job for a year or two. Maybe then, they’d know why prison guards get paid what they do (or at least they can stop complaining, as they’d be “getting rich” as a “union thug,” too!). Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time. Go for it![/quote]

None of those studies refer to California, which is what this thread is about. They only mention Texas and Alabama. The pay they refer to is not the pay being complained of here in CA. The attrition rate quoted is not the attrition rate in CA.

The arguments about the pay have not been how you conveniently framed it as “I don’t get that kind of salary, and I’m in “x” job”. The argument has been that the taxpayers in CA pay too much for the prison system, when looking at the pay and benefits the prison guards receive.

You feel taxpayers don’t have the right to complain about any public employee position unless they are willing and able to do that particular job.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that point.

Again, sorry about your family member. But 1 isolated incident in another State does not support any conclusion about the prison guards in CA.[/quote]

The first two links refer to national statistics, while the last ones refer to Texas. The mention of Texas and Alabama was just because some prison escapes in those states highlighted the problem, and made people look further into it on a national level.

A comparison between California and Texas:

California’s prison guards make more than twice their counterparts in Texas—$71,000 a year, compared with $31,000. That difference is true for state workers in general: While in 2009 the average private-sector worker in California made 12.5 percent more than in Texas, the disparity among state workers was 25.2 percent, according to Commerce Dept. figures.

The higher pay, however, makes for a more consistent workforce. California’s 10 percent turnover rate for prison guards is about half the level it is in Texas. “Our people view their work as a career, not just as something to have until something better comes along,” says Ryan Sherman, a spokesman for the California Correctional Peace Officers Assn. in Sacramento.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_19/b4227025728517.htm
————————–

California has the largest prison population of any state in the nation, with 168,000 inmates in 33 adult prisons, and the state’s annual correctional spending, including jails and probation, amounts to $8.92 billion. California’s prisons currently operate at nearly 200% of their intended capacity, making them dramatically overcrowded.

http://ucicorrections.seweb.uci.edu/pdf/cprcsummary.pdf
——————————–

They are making the decision to pay them more so that they can keep their turnover rate down. Imagine if we had Texas’ turnover rate. How much would that end up costing taxpayers, knowing that recruiting and training these guards is so expensive? I think an argument could be made that paying them more actually saves taxpayers money.

[CA renter]

[quote=pabloesqobar][quote=CA renter]
Gee, I wonder why the high turnover rates when morale is so high, the job is so easy, and they are so overpaid? What a conundrum!

Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!!

Why do I keep saying this? It’s because we keep hearing the arguments about how, “I don’t get paid that kind of salary, and I’m an [fill in the blank — but it’s almost always someone with a desk job, a college degree, and a tremendously inflated opinion of his/her own work, and very little knowledge about what these “union thugs” actually do], why should they get these benefits/pay?”

The only reasonable answer to this is: apply for the job, see if you qualify, go through the training, and do the job for a year or two. Maybe then, they’d know why prison guards get paid what they do (or at least they can stop complaining, as they’d be “getting rich” as a “union thug,” too!). Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time. Go for it![/quote]

None of those studies refer to California, which is what this thread is about. They only mention Texas and Alabama. The pay they refer to is not the pay being complained of here in CA. The attrition rate quoted is not the attrition rate in CA.

The arguments about the pay have not been how you conveniently framed it as “I don’t get that kind of salary, and I’m in “x” job”. The argument has been that the taxpayers in CA pay too much for the prison system, when looking at the pay and benefits the prison guards receive.

You feel taxpayers don’t have the right to complain about any public employee position unless they are willing and able to do that particular job.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that point.

Again, sorry about your family member. But 1 isolated incident in another State does not support any conclusion about the prison guards in CA.[/quote]

The first two links refer to national statistics, while the last ones refer to Texas. The mention of Texas and Alabama was just because some prison escapes in those states highlighted the problem, and made people look further into it on a national level.

A comparison between California and Texas:

California’s prison guards make more than twice their counterparts in Texas—$71,000 a year, compared with $31,000. That difference is true for state workers in general: While in 2009 the average private-sector worker in California made 12.5 percent more than in Texas, the disparity among state workers was 25.2 percent, according to Commerce Dept. figures.

The higher pay, however, makes for a more consistent workforce. California’s 10 percent turnover rate for prison guards is about half the level it is in Texas. “Our people view their work as a career, not just as something to have until something better comes along,” says Ryan Sherman, a spokesman for the California Correctional Peace Officers Assn. in Sacramento.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_19/b4227025728517.htm
————————–

California has the largest prison population of any state in the nation, with 168,000 inmates in 33 adult prisons, and the state’s annual correctional spending, including jails and probation, amounts to $8.92 billion. California’s prisons currently operate at nearly 200% of their intended capacity, making them dramatically overcrowded.

http://ucicorrections.seweb.uci.edu/pdf/cprcsummary.pdf
——————————–

They are making the decision to pay them more so that they can keep their turnover rate down. Imagine if we had Texas’ turnover rate. How much would that end up costing taxpayers, knowing that recruiting and training these guards is so expensive? I think an argument could be made that paying them more actually saves taxpayers money.

[CA renter]

[quote=pabloesqobar][quote=CA renter]
Gee, I wonder why the high turnover rates when morale is so high, the job is so easy, and they are so overpaid? What a conundrum!

Let me state, yet again (because people really aren’t getting what I’m trying to say, apparently): If the job is so easy, and the pay is so high, SIGN UP!!!

Why do I keep saying this? It’s because we keep hearing the arguments about how, “I don’t get paid that kind of salary, and I’m an [fill in the blank — but it’s almost always someone with a desk job, a college degree, and a tremendously inflated opinion of his/her own work, and very little knowledge about what these “union thugs” actually do], why should they get these benefits/pay?”

The only reasonable answer to this is: apply for the job, see if you qualify, go through the training, and do the job for a year or two. Maybe then, they’d know why prison guards get paid what they do (or at least they can stop complaining, as they’d be “getting rich” as a “union thug,” too!). Again, these positions are acutally open to the general public; there is no reason for the envy that’s displayed here all the time. Go for it![/quote]

None of those studies refer to California, which is what this thread is about. They only mention Texas and Alabama. The pay they refer to is not the pay being complained of here in CA. The attrition rate quoted is not the attrition rate in CA.

The arguments about the pay have not been how you conveniently framed it as “I don’t get that kind of salary, and I’m in “x” job”. The argument has been that the taxpayers in CA pay too much for the prison system, when looking at the pay and benefits the prison guards receive.

You feel taxpayers don’t have the right to complain about any public employee position unless they are willing and able to do that particular job.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that point.

Again, sorry about your family member. But 1 isolated incident in another State does not support any conclusion about the prison guards in CA.[/quote]

The first two links refer to national statistics, while the last ones refer to Texas. The mention of Texas and Alabama was just because some prison escapes in those states highlighted the problem, and made people look further into it on a national level.

A comparison between California and Texas:

California’s prison guards make more than twice their counterparts in Texas—$71,000 a year, compared with $31,000. That difference is true for state workers in general: While in 2009 the average private-sector worker in California made 12.5 percent more than in Texas, the disparity among state workers was 25.2 percent, according to Commerce Dept. figures.

The higher pay, however, makes for a more consistent workforce. California’s 10 percent turnover rate for prison guards is about half the level it is in Texas. “Our people view their work as a career, not just as something to have until something better comes along,” says Ryan Sherman, a spokesman for the California Correctional Peace Officers Assn. in Sacramento.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_19/b4227025728517.htm
————————–

California has the largest prison population of any state in the nation, with 168,000 inmates in 33 adult prisons, and the state’s annual correctional spending, including jails and probation, amounts to $8.92 billion. California’s prisons currently operate at nearly 200% of their intended capacity, making them dramatically overcrowded.

http://ucicorrections.seweb.uci.edu/pdf/cprcsummary.pdf
——————————–

They are making the decision to pay them more so that they can keep their turnover rate down. Imagine if we had Texas’ turnover rate. How much would that end up costing taxpayers, knowing that recruiting and training these guards is so expensive? I think an argument could be made that paying them more actually saves taxpayers money.

[CA renter]

[quote=flu]Wow…. I have now learned that several piggs are now expert Prison Vocational Career Counselors. Where do I sign up?

It’s hard work, but then not hard work. It’s overpaid, but not overpaid. It’s a dangerous job but not a dangerous job….

Would you experts please hurry up and make up your mind and give me the final definitive answer??? My career is depending on this….[/quote]

We’re all experts on everything, flu. You should know that by now. 😉

[CA renter]

[quote=flu]Wow…. I have now learned that several piggs are now expert Prison Vocational Career Counselors. Where do I sign up?

It’s hard work, but then not hard work. It’s overpaid, but not overpaid. It’s a dangerous job but not a dangerous job….

Would you experts please hurry up and make up your mind and give me the final definitive answer??? My career is depending on this….[/quote]

We’re all experts on everything, flu. You should know that by now. 😉

[CA renter]

[quote=flu]Wow…. I have now learned that several piggs are now expert Prison Vocational Career Counselors. Where do I sign up?

It’s hard work, but then not hard work. It’s overpaid, but not overpaid. It’s a dangerous job but not a dangerous job….

Would you experts please hurry up and make up your mind and give me the final definitive answer??? My career is depending on this….[/quote]

We’re all experts on everything, flu. You should know that by now. 😉

[CA renter]

[quote=flu]Wow…. I have now learned that several piggs are now expert Prison Vocational Career Counselors. Where do I sign up?

It’s hard work, but then not hard work. It’s overpaid, but not overpaid. It’s a dangerous job but not a dangerous job….

Would you experts please hurry up and make up your mind and give me the final definitive answer??? My career is depending on this….[/quote]

We’re all experts on everything, flu. You should know that by now. 😉

[Author]

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