OT: Battle Ground Zero: Murrieta: Invasion of America

[svelte]

[quote=paramount]
I am leaning towards the ultra-sly theory as well. It could be that part of the plan was to incite race wars, and from what I can tell the plan seems to be working pretty well.
[/quote]

I will take a pretty dim view of it if that turns out to be the case. Children should never be used as pawns.

[quote=paramount]
As far as being a nation of immigrants, to an extent that’s true but I would guess that most in the US are not immigrants.
[/quote]

Well unless you’re American Indian and if you went back enough generations even then…

[CA renter]

[quote=deadzone]I’m sure there are a few “exceptional” cases where it is necessary to hire a foreign specialist. However, I’m tired of hearing the propaganda that we need to bring in more high skilled foreign tech workers because we don’t have enough engineers and scientists in this country. There is absolutely no evidence to support that.
Here is a good article describing this Myth of the STEM worker shortage.
http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/03/the-myth-of-the-science-and-engineering-shortage/284359/%5B/quote%5D

The whole “shortage of STEM workers” meme is propaganda put out by the very same people who are bashing unions. Not kidding, do some research on this.

These people are eyebrow deep in the “education reform” (privatization) and “immigration reform” (amnesty) movements and are looking to do the following:

-push more people into a corporate, profit-
driven educational system fueled by student
loan debt and tax money (privatization
of educational infrastructure)

-get more and more people to get STEM
(and other) degrees so that STEM labor
is cheaper here and abroad

-move cheaper labor into countries with existing
labor protections (bashing unions along the way)
so that they can hire cheap labor overseas when
it benefits them, but also so that they can hire
cheap domestic labor when it’s more profitable
to do so

[Hobie]

Where are the Ethiopians, Somalis, etc. Seems like central America only got the word.

[Coronita]

[quote=The-Shoveler][quote=flu][quote=Hobie]Thats why you see a lot of grey in senior management :)[/quote]

Unless you happen to be one of the idiots that insisted on staying technical hands on throughout your career :)[/quote]

That’s me LOL…

Hey I am still employed in the Tech field while more than a few buddies who went the management route are not.

I think in defense or a very large company Management may be a safer route (for staying employed at that company) but for small or mid size firms, the main thing is results and earnings and who can help you get more earnings.

In a very large code base it takes about a year to come up to speed, if someone is producing on that system, you don’t get rid of them easily.

Small systems (That did not take 10 or more years to develop) maybe it is a little easier.[/quote]

That’s me too.. And like I said, I’m an idiot…I’d love to chat more, but in about 5 minutes I need to get on the phone with part of my team in Bangalore… 🙂

[paramount]

[quote=Hobie]Where are the Ethiopians, Somalis, etc. Seems like central America only got the word.[/quote]

Shutdown the entitlement state (aka wealth redistribution) and this border/immigration crisis largely goes away.

[Anonymous]

No, entitlement state is not the problem. Just need to enforce existing immigration laws (Stop all discussion of amnesty and make E-verify federal law) and the problem will be significantly contained. Ideally birth right citizenship would be abolished but that’s not going to happen.

[CA renter]

[quote=deadzone]No, entitlement state is not the problem. Just need to enforce existing immigration laws (Stop all discussion of amnesty and make E-verify federal law) and the problem will be significantly contained. Ideally birth right citizenship would be abolished but that’s not going to happen.[/quote]

Correct.

[paramount]

[quote=CA renter][quote=deadzone]No, entitlement state is not the problem. Just need to enforce existing immigration laws (Stop all discussion of amnesty and make E-verify federal law) and the problem will be significantly contained. Ideally birth right citizenship would be abolished but that’s not going to happen.[/quote]

Correct.[/quote]

Incorrect.

The entitlement state incentivizes these people to cross deserts in the summer.

In a way, the entitlement state causes tragic deaths.

The current laws are being enforced and that’s also why they are coming here-watch my opening video for an explanation.

[CA renter]

The vast majority of immigrants from Latin America come here to work. If not for the employers who are looking to skate around labor laws, they would not be here getting those “entitlements” you so abhor.

Quite frankly, if the employers were forced to use E-Verify, it would significantly cut the flow of illegal immigrants across the border.

And I would like to place the blame exactly where it belongs: on the employers. Even if we allowed immigrants to freely cross the border, but required their employers to pay for all of the “entitlements” given to these employees and all of their dependents, then I think most Americans wouldn’t be nearly as bothered by illegal immigration. Also important would be to ensure that all incoming immigrants are not criminals, and if they participate in any illegal activity while in the U.S. (including tagging/graffiti, petty theft, etc.), that we deport them immediately and ban them from ever entering the U.S. again.

Ultimately, we are subsidizing the employers with those entitlements because they don’t have to pay a living wage and nor deal with those pesky labor laws when they use illegal labor.

[Anonymous]

[quote=paramount][quote=CA renter][quote=deadzone]No, entitlement state is not the problem. Just need to enforce existing immigration laws (Stop all discussion of amnesty and make E-verify federal law) and the problem will be significantly contained. Ideally birth right citizenship would be abolished but that’s not going to happen.[/quote]

Correct.[/quote]

Incorrect.

The entitlement state incentivizes these people to cross deserts in the summer.

In a way, the entitlement state causes tragic deaths.

The current laws are being enforced and that’s also why they are coming here-watch my opening video for an explanation.[/quote]

What entitlements do you think the typical illegal immigrant is getting? If you want to rail against the entitlement state, that is fine, but tying that as a major reason for illegal immigration is a stretch. As CAR correcly points out they are here to work. If you want to complain about entitlements, they you need to aim your anger at the millions of lazy, useless American citizens who sit on their ass all day and collect welfare. Immigrants who have no job are not going to stay in the US generally, it defeats the purpose. If you are going to be poor and out of work, better off being in your own Country, with your friends, family, culture, language, etc.

But the more relevant issue is the fact that the illegal immigrants are working, and theoretically taking jobs from Americans. Now people argue that these are low pay jobs that Americans don’t want to do. Maybe in some cases. But far more dangerous, as previously mentioned, is the H1B visa workers. These foreigners are taking high paying jobs away from Americans. Why is there not more outrage from the public on this issue?

How come the Republicans are so “tough” on keeping out immigrant laborers who pose no threat to national security, but they have no problem letting in scientists and engineers from China who take good jobs AND have proven to steal both intellectual property and defense secrets?

[jeff303]

[quote=CA renter]
Quite frankly, if the employers were forced to use E-Verify, it would significantly cut the flow of illegal immigrants across the border.
[/quote]

Precisely. Mandatory E-Verify would curtail the problem very significantly. The fact that there seems to be no serious mainstream political traction (from any side) for this is very telling, IMHO.

[paramount]

Fact:

In 2009 (based on data collected in 2010), ~60 percent of households headed by an immigrant (legal and illegal) with children (under 18) used at least one welfare program, compared to 39 percent for native households with children.

[CA renter]

[quote=deadzone]

But the more relevant issue is the fact that the illegal immigrants are working, and theoretically taking jobs from Americans. Now people argue that these are low pay jobs that Americans don’t want to do. Maybe in some cases. But far more dangerous, as previously mentioned, is the H1B visa workers. These foreigners are taking high paying jobs away from Americans. Why is there not more outrage from the public on this issue?

[/quote]

Agree with you about the H1B visas, but the immigrants who are taking those low-skill jobs ARE taking jobs that Americans would like to do, but they won’t do it for $5/hour because taxpayers pick up the slack for what their employers won’t pay, and these immigrants don’t mind living 15 to a household in slum-like conditions. Like the H1B visas, there are Americans who are perfectly willing and able to do the jobs, just not for slave wages. And this is definitely something we need to get riled up about.

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA renter]
Agree with you about the H1B visas, but the immigrants who are taking those low-skill jobs ARE taking jobs that Americans would like to do, but they won’t do it for $5/hour because taxpayers pick up the slack for what their employers won’t pay, and these immigrants don’t mind living 15 to a household in slum-like conditions. Like the H1B visas, there are Americans who are perfectly willing and able to do the jobs, just not for slave wages. And this is definitely something we need to get riled up about.[/quote]

Exactly. Unfortunately politicians aren’t interested in solving this problem. Democrats are pushing amnesty and republicans are pushing to build a giant fence. Unbelievable!

[Anonymous]

[quote=paramount]Fact:

In 2009 (based on data collected in 2010), ~60 percent of households headed by an immigrant (legal and illegal) with children (under 18) used at least one welfare program, compared to 39 percent for native households with children.[/quote]

This topic is about illegal immigrants, not immigrants in general so the uncited statistic you claim as fact is irrelevant.

Since you are such an expert, why don’t you give some examples of the entitlements that draw illegal immigrants to the U.S.?

[Author]

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