OT: Battle Ground Zero: Murrieta: Invasion of America

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA renter]Thank you, BG. It seems that Pri is completely unable to do any research of his own, while expecting others to spoon-feed him every single fact and detail[/quote]

Someone on the internet says they know some people that told them something, and you call that “research?”

No doubt you’ve cited BG posts in all your academic publications – give that girl a PhD!

But let’s get past the personal comments about me, or your gossip about what you want others to think of me. If you’re really on a higher plane then let’s see you set an example:

Tell us again about a demographic been displaced (besides BGs pals, lol.): Not someone making an excuse because they halfheartedly looked for a job and failed…an actual, documented population of people that have been displaced by immigrants in the US.

Still waiting for an actual answer, and the Piggs see clearly when you weasel out with an insult or “do some research” cop out.

While we are at it … What’s your general position on refugee immigrants? Can you make a direct statement, without innuendo, or speculation about what someone else might think in some hypothetical situation?

Can you elevate the conversation about the middle-school level, and say something with substance?

EDIT: I see that flu just posted some credible research. Should his wife also go dictionary shopping?

[no_such_reality]

Silly, labor is a small part of the supermarket cost of food.

[quote]What would happen to consumer food costs if farm wages rose and the extra costs were passed on to consumers? The average earnings of field workers were $9.78 an hour in 2008, according to a U.S. Department of Agriculture survey of farm employers, and a 40 percent increase would raise them to $13.69 an hour. If this wage increase were passed on to consumers, the 10 cent farm labor cost of a $1 pound of apples would rise to 14 cents, and the retail price would only rise to $1.04.[/quote]

What’s really driving increases? Consolidation of the intermediaries and major players. i.e. Bayer & Monsanto merging.

Of course, raise prices enough and the average American might actually end up spending more on fresh fruits & vegetables than booze. Today, the average is more is spent on booze than fruits & veggies.

[quote=flu]Don’t let facts get in the way of the hate….

http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/29/news/economy/american-farm-workers/index.html

The worker shortage facing America’s farmers

A recent Pew Research report found that more Mexican immigrants are now leaving the U.S. than coming into the country, citing tougher enforcement of immigration laws and the slow economic recovery here in the U.S. (The report accounted for both documented and undocumented immigrants).
With fewer workers, farm owners say costs are rising and they often must leave unpicked fruit to rot in the fields. Many producers are even opting to leave the U.S. for countries with lower costs and fewer regulations, said Tom Nassif, CEO of Western Growers, a trade organization that represents farm owners both in the U.S. and abroad.
“We’re pretty much begging for workers. It’s very bleak,” he said.

The competition for workers has sent average farm worker wages up 5% in the past year, to $12 an hour, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture figures. That’s $2 higher than California’s $10 minimum wage, with some farmers saying they pay as much as $15 an hour, according to Nassif.

And costs keep rising. Two weeks ago, California expanded its overtime rules to include migrant farm workers. That means farm owners must pay one and half times the employee’s regular rate after they have worked a certain number of consecutive hours.

With increased competition for labor, workers are also asking for and winning better working conditions, such as a 15-minute shade break for each hour of work.
“If they don’t like how they’re being treated or what they’re being paid, they’ll just go to another farm,” said Nassif.

Still, the increased pay, improved working conditions and overtime benefits have failed to attract many American workers.
“Of the 300 workers I have in the field, two are Americans,” said Joe Del Bosque, a farm owner in Firebaugh, California.

So much for Obama’s open border silliness. Older folks on fixed income, be prepared for a lot higher food costs. But hey, now you can put your money where your mouth is (literally and figuratively)… Looks like even the loaves of bread past the expiration date will be more expensive.[/quote]

[Coronita]

[quote=harvey]
EDIT: I see that flu just posted some credible research.
[/quote]

I’m predicting there’s going to be a rebuttal posta about how CNN is a “liberal” news organization and is not credible, and that the research was doctored to fill a “liberal agenda”… And any moment now, I’m going to be accused of being a far left leaning liberal….Lol. Or that the moderates are now conspiring with the extreme left leaning to push a ultra left wing agenda….

…Even though the research was done by Pew.

The arguments of conspiracy theorists usually ends up that way.

Maybe the issue isn’t the world around you. Maybe the issue is you.

[Coronita]

[quote=no_such_reality]Silly, labor is a small part of the supermarket cost of food.

What’s really driving increases? Consolidation of the intermediaries and major players. i.e. Bayer & Monsanto merging.

Of course, raise prices enough and the average American might actually end up spending more on fresh fruits & vegetables than booze. Today, the average is more is spent on booze than fruits & veggies.
[/quote]

There’s that too. And there’s cost of paying the CEO and the labor unions…. But someone needs to pick the fruit.. Just saying…
Anyway, folks on fixed income who previously said that companies should pay higher wages…Well, you got and will get what you wanted… (Not saying it’s a bad thing for those farm workers)..But for some of you on fixed income, well that remains to be determined..Lol…

[no_such_reality]

[quote=flu][quote=no_such_reality]Silly, labor is a small part of the supermarket cost of food.

What’s really driving increases? Consolidation of the intermediaries and major players. i.e. Bayer & Monsanto merging.

Of course, raise prices enough and the average American might actually end up spending more on fresh fruits & vegetables than booze. Today, the average is more is spent on booze than fruits & veggies.
[/quote]

There’s that too. And there’s cost of paying the CEO and the labor unions…. But someone needs to pick the fruit.. Just saying…
Anyway, folks on fixed income who previously said that companies should pay higher wages…Well, you got and will get what you wanted… (Not saying it’s a bad thing for those farm workers)..But for some of you on fixed income, well that remains to be determined..Lol…[/quote]

I agree someone has to pick the food. And just like software engineers, when you can’t find them to hire, you raise your wages.

All the complaining about no workers, yet average wages are $12/hour… to work in a field when it’s 102F, in blazing sun doing hard physical labor that would just about kill the typical suburban office worker that thinks they’re in shape.

This isn’t meant as an insult, I don’t think any of us semi-urban workers have delusions that we could play in the NFL, NBA or MLB although many of us all have the basic skills to “get the job done”.

Today’s farm field work, is the same way. You may have the basic understanding of the skill and capability, but you really don’t have the physical skill and conditioning to survive in the field without being carried by your coworkers for the first month or more. IMHO. Yet as a society we down rationalize paying them because “anybody” can do it.

[flu]

[quote=no_such_reality][quote=flu][quote=no_such_reality]Silly, labor is a small part of the supermarket cost of food.

What’s really driving increases? Consolidation of the intermediaries and major players. i.e. Bayer & Monsanto merging.

Of course, raise prices enough and the average American might actually end up spending more on fresh fruits & vegetables than booze. Today, the average is more is spent on booze than fruits & veggies.
[/quote]

There’s that too. And there’s cost of paying the CEO and the labor unions…. But someone needs to pick the fruit.. Just saying…
Anyway, folks on fixed income who previously said that companies should pay higher wages…Well, you got and will get what you wanted… (Not saying it’s a bad thing for those farm workers)..But for some of you on fixed income, well that remains to be determined..Lol…[/quote]

I agree someone has to pick the food. And just like software engineers, when you can’t find them to hire, you raise your wages.

All the complaining about no workers, yet average wages are $12/hour… to work in a field when it’s 102F, in blazing sun doing hard physical labor that would just about kill the typical suburban office worker that thinks they’re in shape.

This isn’t meant as an insult, I don’t think any of us semi-urban workers have delusions that we could play in the NFL, NBA or MLB although many of us all have the basic skills to “get the job done”.

Today’s farm field work, is the same way. You may have the basic understanding of the skill and capability, but you really don’t have the physical skill and conditioning to survive in the field without being carried by your coworkers for the first month or more. IMHO. Yet as a society we down rationalize paying them because “anybody” can do it.[/quote]

My argument isn’t against paying farm workers more. My argument is about people making the claim the immigrants and migrants are stealing “their jobs”. Looks to me that those jobs are not good enough for people, because they don’t appear to be filled by the people that complain.

Just like all the whiners that complain about H1B without having the education or experience in ever writing a usable like a code.

People just complain way too much. That’s why the often let opportunity slip right by them, and someone else ends up seizing those opportunities. I hardly feel sorry for anyone who does.

[no_such_reality]

[quote=flu-redux]

My argument isn’t against paying farm workers more. My argument is about people making the claim the immigrants and migrants are stealing “their jobs”. Looks to me that those jobs are not good enough for people, because they don’t appear to be filled by the people that complain.

Just like all the whiners that complain about H1B without having the education or experience in ever writing a usable like a code.

People just complain way too much. That’s why the often let opportunity slip right by them, and someone else ends up seizing those opportunities. I hardly feel sorry for anyone who does.[/quote]

Again, hard physical work in semi-remote (way-rural) locations exposed to the elements for $12/hr or Starbucks in AC in local area for $15/hr.

Besides, I really doubt, you or I could even get hired to work a field if we wanted.

The farm business has been complaining and claiming people don’t want those jobs, yet they still, since McCain sat their shooting his mouth off about it in 2008, haven’t increased wages.

If business was a person buying a house in San Diego, they’d be complaining about no good homes while still trying to pay $150K for a 3 bedroom SFR ranch on the coast.

Why is that? Because we’ve allowed a continual stream of abused labor to be exploited. So the wages are still $12/hr.

[Anonymous]

[quote=flu-redux]People just complain way too much. That’s why the often let opportunity slip right by them, and someone else ends up seizing those opportunities. I hardly feel sorry for anyone who does.[/quote]

They do seize the opportunities. They support their unions that make deals with the politicians that pass laws that give them millions of dollars:

http://piggington.com/how_pension_deal_went_wrong_and_cost_california

From the OP article in that thread:

The average retirement age for CHP officers is 54. Someone that age without a pension who wanted to buy an annuity to generate the same income for life would have to pay more than $2.6 million, according to Fidelity Investments.

So why do our schools struggle for funding?

Of course it has nothing to do with the billions our government spends to guarantee comfortable lifestyles for a minority of the population. It has nothing to do with the multi-million dollar payouts to people who retire in middle age….

It’s because of those Mexican farm workers who are displacing hard-working real Americans. How can we afford it…these people don’t even speak English and they are making $12/hour?!?

[FlyerInHi]

The one group CAr and BG did not mention as being displaced is aspiring American models who want to land runway jobs and marry billionaires.

BG , aren’t you outraged at how fraudster Melania obtained her green card? So far no news conference by Melania to explain her immigration history.

[Anonymous]

Why do we care about supporting strawberry famers or other agri business in California anyway? All they do is hire foreigners to work for them. The owners profit and taxpayers foot the bill to subsidize their illegal workers.

How about a crazy idea.. why don’t we just import the strawberries from mexico? that way the Mexican workers can get jobs in their own country. Sounds like a win/win

[bearishgurl]

[quote=deadzone]Why do we care about supporting strawberry famers or other agri business in California anyway? All they do is hire foreigners to work for them. The owners profit and taxpayers foot the bill to subsidize their illegal workers.

How about a crazy idea.. why don’t we just import the strawberries from mexico? that way the Mexican workers can get jobs in their own country. Sounds like a win/win[/quote]We already do that, deadzone. As well as grow strawberries in CA. There was a food poisoning scare from MX strawberries grown around Mexicali, I think, over 10 years ago but that only resulted in a MX strawberry boycott by the US for the rest of that season and maybe one more year, IIRC.

[bearishgurl]

A number of owners of large agricultural acreages in CA’s Central Valley have been paid by the Federal gubment NOT to grow anything or conduct any ranching activities on their land in the past 15 years or so. One only has to drive up I-5 from Bakersfield (as well as along the lower SR-99) to see this phenomenon in person.

[Anonymous]

Strawberry farms are just an example BG. The point is, if the industry can’t survive locally without needing to import foreign workers, then the business is not viable and should not exist.

Makes more sense to import the product rather than import thousands of workers, being subsidized by taxpayers, just for the benefit of a few wealthy land-owners.

[CA renter]

[quote=deadzone]Strawberry farms are just an example BG. The point is, if the industry can’t survive locally without needing to import foreign workers, then the business is not viable and should not exist.

Makes more sense to import the product rather than import thousands of workers, being subsidized by taxpayers, just for the benefit of a few wealthy land-owners.[/quote]

Agree with this. Unfortunately, NAFTA displaced (there’s that word again!) many Mexican farmers because our subsidized crops were sold into Mexico, putting Mexican farmers, who did not get subsidies, out of business.

That’s one of reasons so many Mexican farm workers are coming to the U.S.

[CA renter]

[quote=no_such_reality][quote=flu-redux]

My argument isn’t against paying farm workers more. My argument is about people making the claim the immigrants and migrants are stealing “their jobs”. Looks to me that those jobs are not good enough for people, because they don’t appear to be filled by the people that complain.

Just like all the whiners that complain about H1B without having the education or experience in ever writing a usable like a code.

People just complain way too much. That’s why the often let opportunity slip right by them, and someone else ends up seizing those opportunities. I hardly feel sorry for anyone who does.[/quote]

Again, hard physical work in semi-remote (way-rural) locations exposed to the elements for $12/hr or Starbucks in AC in local area for $15/hr.

Besides, I really doubt, you or I could even get hired to work a field if we wanted.

The farm business has been complaining and claiming people don’t want those jobs, yet they still, since McCain sat their shooting his mouth off about it in 2008, haven’t increased wages.

If business was a person buying a house in San Diego, they’d be complaining about no good homes while still trying to pay $150K for a 3 bedroom SFR ranch on the coast.

Why is that? Because we’ve allowed a continual stream of abused labor to be exploited. So the wages are still $12/hr.[/quote]

+1,000,000

I’d be happy to pay more for our food in order to provide a better life for the people who are doing the damn hard work of laboring in the fields.

[Author]

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